7 ms·

I agree completely. I believe this to be an extremely bad failure at MS for product and company strategy. They basically own the PC OS market but jeapardize the

I agree completely. I believe this to be an extremely bad failure at MS for product and company strategy. They basically own the PC OS market but jeapardize their own position massively. I meet devs that target Windows less and less. That said, I might not really cry myself to sleep if people leave Windows behind.

bserge 5y ago
Yeah, it would be amazing if Adobe, DS, Autodesk, and others would somehow realize they should decouple their software from the OS and make a Linux version (that could even run on Windows). Though right now the only problem I have is Windows restarting overnight for updates. Closing half the open programs. Even though I explicitly set it to no auto restart if user logged on. Then again, it ignores the work time, too.
- smolder 5y ago
  I think even if it was a good investment to release that kind of high value software on linux and support it there (and it might be,) certain decision-makers may choose not to for ideological reasons. FOSS is often either treated as a resource for exploitation or some kind of anti-capitalist boogie man. I swear I've been put on some peoples' shit lists just for suggesting that we publish something under a FOSS license for visibility and goodwill.
- denton-scratch 5y ago
  > Even though I explicitly set it to no auto restart if user logged on. This really annoys me. I mean, why can't they just pop up a warning that I need to reboot? Or perhaps (not so good) at least take note of which apps are running, and re-launch them after the forced reboot? Windows has been getting suckier with each release since Win2K. None of this suckiness is security, or seriously-cool enhancements. It's all caused by marketing exigencies. Microsoft's awfulness makes me want to cry. [Edit: changed "since WinNT" to "since Win2K" - Win2K wasn't suckier than WinNT - as far as I know, it was just WinNT re-skinned]
- pjmlp 5y ago
  Those vendors used to have UNIX versions and gave up on them, and some of them still do have a GNU/Linux version, only to keep a bunch of very important customers happy, otherwise they would have given up already.
bbarnett 5y ago
I'm fairly sure, that in their minds, Microsoft cannot possibly fail.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
vladvasiliu 5y ago
Do you really think random people will leave Windows behind? And do what? Most of the average PC users don't even know there's an alternative (aside maybe for macs, which they probably consider overpriced, so not a direct alternative). I think people who complain about this situation are people who know enough about computers to know that an "older" but higher-end computer would run just fine. The random Joe probably isn't running a 6th gen maxed-out i7, but some cheap low-end PC that they're used to having to change fairly regularly because it breaks for no reason. I'm not defending MS here, but I think their strength is based on enterprise clients, where people change computers much more often, as based on their support contracts, and run-of-the-mill users who don't even think of "Windows" as being different from "the computer". Power users are either "stuck" somehow on Windows (games, or other software that requires Windows) or are already on Linux. In the first case, it may be an issue, but they'll probably just grumpily whip out their card and upgrade. What else are they going to do? I'm in the second situation and running a 3rd gen i7 and have no intention of upgrading it as long the computer works. But I only occasionally boot it in Windows to play some game. When games won't support Windows 10 anymore, I'll just play some other game.
- Santosh83 5y ago
  So tech people have a big responsibility to make these "random Joe and Jane" educated, at least just enough that they can make more informed choices and learn further, if they should so choose. Is each tech person at least making a few other close non-tech friend/family aware about the hot issues in computing? And I'm not taking about that recalcitrant 90 year old grandma or that pop-singer who doesn't even know or care what an icon means. But there are plenty of people out there who are otherwise highly educated or intelligent who simply don't have sufficient domain knowledge when it comes to computers, to make more informed choices instead of being herded like sheep by the tech-giants. And I can't think of a single go-to resource on the net that can explain the intricacies of computers and apps to the average (but intelligent) Joe, with a particular view towards enabling more freedom and privacy for them.
  - vladvasiliu 5y ago
    > But there are plenty of people out there who are otherwise highly educated or intelligent who simply don't have sufficient domain knowledge when it comes to computers, to make more informed choices instead of being herded like sheep by the tech-giants. That may be true, but I also get the feeling that they choose to spend their energy worrying about other things, as long as the computer does the job they want it to do. Hell, I have a friend who's actually a techie, tried Linux, actually even has it installed on his daily driver (dual boot on a single drive in a laptop), he just never uses it. He's a Java dev, so all his stack would probably work on Linux with little or no fiddling. But he just does not care. Windows doesn't bother him enough to make the change, so he didn't change. I think this is the most important part: Windows mostly works for most people. Paradoxically, I think that the fact that the OS is less and less important is actually a bad thing for Linux adoption. Because people just don't care about the OS as long as the browser works. And on Windows, it works well enough. So why would they change? There are of course philosophical reasons, but people don't appear to care. There are billions of Facebook users. This shows people don't care about these issues. I don't know if it's because they intrinsically don't care, or because we've done a bad job of educating them. Maybe a bit of both. But it sure feels like an uphill battle, even among "techies".
telxos 5y ago
This is the same exact thing that has been happening the past 40 years with this company and Windows. Windows 10 was my fav version because that was the straw that broke the camels back for me and I would never even consider installing Windows at this point. KDE Plasma is so vastly superior to Windows it isn't even close. I don't even work in IT either. A Dev intentionally using Windows is just embarrassing.

bserge 5y ago

Yeah, it would be amazing if Adobe, DS, Autodesk, and others would somehow realize they should decouple their software from the OS and make a Linux version (that could even run on Windows). Though right now the only problem I have is Windows restarting overnight for updates. Closing half the open programs. Even though I explicitly set it to no auto restart if user logged on. Then again, it ignores the work time, too.

smolder 5y ago
I think even if it was a good investment to release that kind of high value software on linux and support it there (and it might be,) certain decision-makers may choose not to for ideological reasons. FOSS is often either treated as a resource for exploitation or some kind of anti-capitalist boogie man. I swear I've been put on some peoples' shit lists just for suggesting that we publish something under a FOSS license for visibility and goodwill.
denton-scratch 5y ago
> Even though I explicitly set it to no auto restart if user logged on. This really annoys me. I mean, why can't they just pop up a warning that I need to reboot? Or perhaps (not so good) at least take note of which apps are running, and re-launch them after the forced reboot? Windows has been getting suckier with each release since Win2K. None of this suckiness is security, or seriously-cool enhancements. It's all caused by marketing exigencies. Microsoft's awfulness makes me want to cry. [Edit: changed "since WinNT" to "since Win2K" - Win2K wasn't suckier than WinNT - as far as I know, it was just WinNT re-skinned]
pjmlp 5y ago
Those vendors used to have UNIX versions and gave up on them, and some of them still do have a GNU/Linux version, only to keep a bunch of very important customers happy, otherwise they would have given up already.

bbarnett 5y ago

I'm fairly sure, that in their minds, Microsoft cannot possibly fail.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

vladvasiliu 5y ago

Do you really think random people will leave Windows behind? And do what? Most of the average PC users don't even know there's an alternative (aside maybe for macs, which they probably consider overpriced, so not a direct alternative). I think people who complain about this situation are people who know enough about computers to know that an "older" but higher-end computer would run just fine. The random Joe probably isn't running a 6th gen maxed-out i7, but some cheap low-end PC that they're used to having to change fairly regularly because it breaks for no reason. I'm not defending MS here, but I think their strength is based on enterprise clients, where people change computers much more often, as based on their support contracts, and run-of-the-mill users who don't even think of "Windows" as being different from "the computer". Power users are either "stuck" somehow on Windows (games, or other software that requires Windows) or are already on Linux. In the first case, it may be an issue, but they'll probably just grumpily whip out their card and upgrade. What else are they going to do? I'm in the second situation and running a 3rd gen i7 and have no intention of upgrading it as long the computer works. But I only occasionally boot it in Windows to play some game. When games won't support Windows 10 anymore, I'll just play some other game.

Santosh83 5y ago
So tech people have a big responsibility to make these "random Joe and Jane" educated, at least just enough that they can make more informed choices and learn further, if they should so choose. Is each tech person at least making a few other close non-tech friend/family aware about the hot issues in computing? And I'm not taking about that recalcitrant 90 year old grandma or that pop-singer who doesn't even know or care what an icon means. But there are plenty of people out there who are otherwise highly educated or intelligent who simply don't have sufficient domain knowledge when it comes to computers, to make more informed choices instead of being herded like sheep by the tech-giants. And I can't think of a single go-to resource on the net that can explain the intricacies of computers and apps to the average (but intelligent) Joe, with a particular view towards enabling more freedom and privacy for them.
- vladvasiliu 5y ago
  > But there are plenty of people out there who are otherwise highly educated or intelligent who simply don't have sufficient domain knowledge when it comes to computers, to make more informed choices instead of being herded like sheep by the tech-giants. That may be true, but I also get the feeling that they choose to spend their energy worrying about other things, as long as the computer does the job they want it to do. Hell, I have a friend who's actually a techie, tried Linux, actually even has it installed on his daily driver (dual boot on a single drive in a laptop), he just never uses it. He's a Java dev, so all his stack would probably work on Linux with little or no fiddling. But he just does not care. Windows doesn't bother him enough to make the change, so he didn't change. I think this is the most important part: Windows mostly works for most people. Paradoxically, I think that the fact that the OS is less and less important is actually a bad thing for Linux adoption. Because people just don't care about the OS as long as the browser works. And on Windows, it works well enough. So why would they change? There are of course philosophical reasons, but people don't appear to care. There are billions of Facebook users. This shows people don't care about these issues. I don't know if it's because they intrinsically don't care, or because we've done a bad job of educating them. Maybe a bit of both. But it sure feels like an uphill battle, even among "techies".

telxos 5y ago

This is the same exact thing that has been happening the past 40 years with this company and Windows. Windows 10 was my fav version because that was the straw that broke the camels back for me and I would never even consider installing Windows at this point. KDE Plasma is so vastly superior to Windows it isn't even close. I don't even work in IT either. A Dev intentionally using Windows is just embarrassing.