5 ms·

I saw this exact thing a couple of months ago not so far from Arhnem. (I thought it might be a crane, but it was moving very fast... so I could be mistaken.)

by blunte 5y ago

I saw this exact thing a couple of months ago not so far from Arhnem. (I thought it might be a crane, but it was moving very fast... so I could be mistaken.) This bird was diving at about 30-45 degrees from fairly high, and it suddenly inverted, stayed inverted for a second or so, and then righted itself. It was moving very fast, and you could actually hear the sound (and the changes of sound) of the air as it was moving through it. There were no other airborne birds of that size that I could see anywhere near it, so I initially thought it was dying or otherwise out of control. But then it descended below view, and I never heard a thump. I searched for inverted bird flight immediately after and learned that there are a number of observed cases where birds may do that. One theory is that they sometimes do it because they enjoy it. Other theories of course involve chasing prey, observing things, showing off, etc. But I like the idea that a bird might just be having fun. I mean, if I could fly, I think I would screw around all the time just because I could. After all, children will just run around wildly just because they can run.

brundolf 5y ago
We often assume non-human animals are totally focused on the logical business of survival. But we aren't, and I don't see why they would be any different
- jon_richards 5y ago
  Here's a fun example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGaSHDmuAPg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGaSHDmuAPg
  - emi2k01 5y ago
    There's an interesting comment in that video that says the bird thinks it's an egg and it's trying to break it open. I don't know if that's true but I wanted to point it out to hopefully get some answers here.
    - kadoban 5y ago
      Initially sounds possible. Only question I'd have is...how adept is that kind of bird at slurping up splattered egg innards? That's a _lot_ of force it's using if it thinks it's an egg. If it's trying to eat it, wouldn't it either squish it in its beak or stab it a bit to just break the top?
- Darvokis 5y ago
  Watch any number of animal documentaries. Animals (particularly mammals) of all kinds engage in play, whether children or adults. I find it odd that anybody questions the idea.
  - thaumasiotes 5y ago
    That's more evidence that playing is part of the logical business of survival than evidence that animals aren't spending their time in the logical business of survival.
    - Darvokis 5y ago
      If we dial into any number of our "higher level behaviors", you can often go all the way back to "survival". Play is an important part of skill acquisition, and the easiest way to incentivize it is to make it "fun". Naturally, having fun as an evolved trait will lead to behaviors that don't necessarily have an obvious survival benefit. I'd be more surprised to see a mammal that doesn't at all engage in behaviors purely out of enjoyment.
    - tialaramex 5y ago
      Corvids are totally playing. There's a video of a young crow which has discovered that it can stand on a small object and "snowboard" down a snow-covered roof. Fun! Gets to the bottom, picks the object up, flies to the top, goes again. That's almost exactly what a human child would do. And it's exactly as much "part of the logical business of survival" ie none.
      - thaumasiotes 5y ago
        > it's exactly as much "part of the logical business of survival" ie none. This is just an assertion, and it's actively contradicted by huge piles of evidence. Why do you believe it?
        kadoban 5y ago
        What evidence is there? My guess would be that it's a side-effect of evolution, in that play is helpful for the young and is driven by it being fun. Doesn't seem like adults playing is necessarily beneficial to survival, I'm curious what the evidence to the contrary would be.
- BeefWellington 5y ago
  This is one of my favorite ted talks, on animal behaviour: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcJxRqTs5nk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcJxRqTs5nk The examples of animals doing things the way they do are both funny and entertaining.

by blunte 5y ago

brundolf 5y ago

We often assume non-human animals are totally focused on the logical business of survival. But we aren't, and I don't see why they would be any different

jon_richards 5y ago
Here's a fun example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGaSHDmuAPg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGaSHDmuAPg
- emi2k01 5y ago
  There's an interesting comment in that video that says the bird thinks it's an egg and it's trying to break it open. I don't know if that's true but I wanted to point it out to hopefully get some answers here.
  - kadoban 5y ago
    Initially sounds possible. Only question I'd have is...how adept is that kind of bird at slurping up splattered egg innards? That's a _lot_ of force it's using if it thinks it's an egg. If it's trying to eat it, wouldn't it either squish it in its beak or stab it a bit to just break the top?
Darvokis 5y ago
Watch any number of animal documentaries. Animals (particularly mammals) of all kinds engage in play, whether children or adults. I find it odd that anybody questions the idea.
- thaumasiotes 5y ago
  That's more evidence that playing is part of the logical business of survival than evidence that animals aren't spending their time in the logical business of survival.
  - Darvokis 5y ago
    If we dial into any number of our "higher level behaviors", you can often go all the way back to "survival". Play is an important part of skill acquisition, and the easiest way to incentivize it is to make it "fun". Naturally, having fun as an evolved trait will lead to behaviors that don't necessarily have an obvious survival benefit. I'd be more surprised to see a mammal that doesn't at all engage in behaviors purely out of enjoyment.
  - tialaramex 5y ago
    Corvids are totally playing. There's a video of a young crow which has discovered that it can stand on a small object and "snowboard" down a snow-covered roof. Fun! Gets to the bottom, picks the object up, flies to the top, goes again. That's almost exactly what a human child would do. And it's exactly as much "part of the logical business of survival" ie none.
    - thaumasiotes 5y ago
      > it's exactly as much "part of the logical business of survival" ie none. This is just an assertion, and it's actively contradicted by huge piles of evidence. Why do you believe it?
      - kadoban 5y ago
        What evidence is there? My guess would be that it's a side-effect of evolution, in that play is helpful for the young and is driven by it being fun. Doesn't seem like adults playing is necessarily beneficial to survival, I'm curious what the evidence to the contrary would be.
BeefWellington 5y ago
This is one of my favorite ted talks, on animal behaviour: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcJxRqTs5nk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcJxRqTs5nk The examples of animals doing things the way they do are both funny and entertaining.