4 ms·

Having visited all the countries mentioned within the last few years - definitely agree. Seoul is an incredible, modern city, unlike any other. Tokyo largely fe

Having visited all the countries mentioned within the last few years - definitely agree. Seoul is an incredible, modern city, unlike any other. Tokyo largely feels like it was frozen in time. Parts of Amsterdam have that sort of feel, but it’s definitely more mixed. Not crumbling, but old and making do since it’s fine.

alephnan 5y ago
> Tokyo largely feels like it was frozen in time. Economically, Japan has been in stagnation since the late 80s.
- ekianjo 5y ago
  > stagnating That's a nice way to put it, it's been actually decreasing clearly over time since 1989, with ups and downs on the way: https://mebfaber.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/japan.jpg https://mebfaber.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/japan.jpg
  - JumpCrisscross 5y ago
    What is the y axis?
    - zuminator 5y ago
      That chart is a crude snapshot of the Nikkei 225 from 1990 to 2009. Since then it's rebounded by quite a bit although it's still quite a bit under its Dec 1989 peak. But of course a stock market index isn't the full economy, so I would disagree that this chart by itself constitutes proof that Japan is stagnating. Chart source: https://mebfaber.com/2009/12/20/japan-the-us-and-the-lost-decades/ https://mebfaber.com/2009/12/20/japan-the-us-and-the-lost-de...
- yorwba 5y ago
  Economically, Japan's GDP per capita (measured in 2010 US$) was 39,240 in 1991 and grew to 49,000 in 2019, a 25% increase. Yes, it's slower growth than before, but slow growth is still growth, not stagnation. For comparison, New Zealand was at 38,345 in 2019: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.KD?end=2020&locations=JP-NZ-KR https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.KD?end=2020... (also threw in the graph for South Korea)
  - Clewza313 5y ago
    During that time the USD has suffered around 88% inflation measures by CPI, so in real terms that implies they're going backwards.
    - spfzero 5y ago
      That's inflation in US prices. It may not be transferrable to another country, where various things cost more/less, and rise/fall differently through the years.
    - oezi 5y ago
      When my parents went to Japan in the eighties they were shocked that coffee in Tokyo was 4 times as expensive as in Germany. When I visited in 2016 I was similarly shocked that a vending machine Coca Cola costs half of what it costs in Germany. Japan's deflation has led the country to be very affordable.
- pehtis 5y ago
  It has been in stagnation since the 80s: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Decades_(Japan) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Decades_(Japan)
fleddr 5y ago
I don't think Amsterdam is what is meant by the Netherlands. Amsterdam is basically a super old village built in a swamp that it interesting for its history, architecture, culture, and so on. Or for the red light district and weed shops, if you prefer that. It's not a display of infrastructure. The Netherlands has some of the best developed infrastructure nation-wide: roads, railways, and most famously its massive water management systems, as half the country is below sea level. It is also very well developed economically (punching far above its tiny weight), technically, and socially (hybrid welfare system). By comparison, many parts of the US feel like a 3rd world country.
- _RPL5_ 5y ago
  "well developed economically (punching far above its tiny weight)" I am being a nitpicker here, but I think there is no correlation between country size and level of economic development. Many of the richest polities in the world are quite small. Places like Singapore & HK come to mind. I think bigger countries, even if they are "1st world," can sometimes look rather rough, because there is a lot of variation between different regions / municipalities / neighborhoods. It can be surreal sometimes, but it is what it is.
  - fleddr 5y ago
    I should perhaps clarify that it's not just the level of economic development, rather specifically it's scale. For example, would you expect the Netherlands, smaller than a typical US state, to be the world's #2 food exporter? From a tiny country that is also extremely densely populated? To produce a number of mega corporations like Unilever, Shell (partly dutch), Philips, Heineken, the like...and this doesn't even begin to describe lesser known companies in extremely heavy transport, water management, mega scale infrastructure. Combined with the extremely favorable location of being a distribution hub (Rotterdam), indeed similar to Singapore. So I basically agree, it doesn't require a large country to produce a lot of economic output. Yet I'd still say the food export fact is a crazy one, as you would expect that to very much be surface-related.
    - 5y ago

alephnan 5y ago

> Tokyo largely feels like it was frozen in time. Economically, Japan has been in stagnation since the late 80s.

ekianjo 5y ago
> stagnating That's a nice way to put it, it's been actually decreasing clearly over time since 1989, with ups and downs on the way: https://mebfaber.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/japan.jpg https://mebfaber.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/japan.jpg
- JumpCrisscross 5y ago
  What is the y axis?
  - zuminator 5y ago
    That chart is a crude snapshot of the Nikkei 225 from 1990 to 2009. Since then it's rebounded by quite a bit although it's still quite a bit under its Dec 1989 peak. But of course a stock market index isn't the full economy, so I would disagree that this chart by itself constitutes proof that Japan is stagnating. Chart source: https://mebfaber.com/2009/12/20/japan-the-us-and-the-lost-decades/ https://mebfaber.com/2009/12/20/japan-the-us-and-the-lost-de...
yorwba 5y ago
Economically, Japan's GDP per capita (measured in 2010 US$) was 39,240 in 1991 and grew to 49,000 in 2019, a 25% increase. Yes, it's slower growth than before, but slow growth is still growth, not stagnation. For comparison, New Zealand was at 38,345 in 2019: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.KD?end=2020&locations=JP-NZ-KR https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.KD?end=2020... (also threw in the graph for South Korea)
- Clewza313 5y ago
  During that time the USD has suffered around 88% inflation measures by CPI, so in real terms that implies they're going backwards.
  - spfzero 5y ago
    That's inflation in US prices. It may not be transferrable to another country, where various things cost more/less, and rise/fall differently through the years.
  - oezi 5y ago
    When my parents went to Japan in the eighties they were shocked that coffee in Tokyo was 4 times as expensive as in Germany. When I visited in 2016 I was similarly shocked that a vending machine Coca Cola costs half of what it costs in Germany. Japan's deflation has led the country to be very affordable.
pehtis 5y ago
It has been in stagnation since the 80s: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Decades_(Japan) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Decades_(Japan)

fleddr 5y ago

I don't think Amsterdam is what is meant by the Netherlands. Amsterdam is basically a super old village built in a swamp that it interesting for its history, architecture, culture, and so on. Or for the red light district and weed shops, if you prefer that. It's not a display of infrastructure. The Netherlands has some of the best developed infrastructure nation-wide: roads, railways, and most famously its massive water management systems, as half the country is below sea level. It is also very well developed economically (punching far above its tiny weight), technically, and socially (hybrid welfare system). By comparison, many parts of the US feel like a 3rd world country.

_RPL5_ 5y ago
"well developed economically (punching far above its tiny weight)" I am being a nitpicker here, but I think there is no correlation between country size and level of economic development. Many of the richest polities in the world are quite small. Places like Singapore & HK come to mind. I think bigger countries, even if they are "1st world," can sometimes look rather rough, because there is a lot of variation between different regions / municipalities / neighborhoods. It can be surreal sometimes, but it is what it is.
- fleddr 5y ago
  I should perhaps clarify that it's not just the level of economic development, rather specifically it's scale. For example, would you expect the Netherlands, smaller than a typical US state, to be the world's #2 food exporter? From a tiny country that is also extremely densely populated? To produce a number of mega corporations like Unilever, Shell (partly dutch), Philips, Heineken, the like...and this doesn't even begin to describe lesser known companies in extremely heavy transport, water management, mega scale infrastructure. Combined with the extremely favorable location of being a distribution hub (Rotterdam), indeed similar to Singapore. So I basically agree, it doesn't require a large country to produce a lot of economic output. Yet I'd still say the food export fact is a crazy one, as you would expect that to very much be surface-related.
  - 5y ago