10 ms·
Macaques at Japan reserve get first alpha female in 70-year history
- rory 5y agoThis is all the more impressive because macaques generally display strong sexual dimorphism in size (males are ~45% bigger on average than females, vs. more like ~15% in humans). I wonder how big Yakei is.
- elliekelly 5y agoI think the article said she’s 10kg but it didn’t say the size of the former alpha male. I wish they had mentioned the size difference for comparison, that’s interesting!
- gambiting 5y agoWell it does say that she roughed up the previous alpha male, so presumably she's at least similar in size/strength.
- tokai 5y agoShe's also 22 years younger than him.
- eadmund 5y agoYou inspired me to the lifespan of Japanese macaques, and it is 27 years; the previous alpha male was 31 years old, which suggests to me that he must have been pretty over the hill. Given that she is smaller than the average male macaque, I imagine that this is not a terribly stable situation.
- ipspam 5y agoInteresting. What are the odds they can set up a livestream so we can watch macaque fight club? I love a good underdog.
- erhk 5y agoI heard yakei was doping, and that she had metal studs implanted in her knuckles
- Blikkentrekker 5y agoA good point; it's entirely possible that this is only a very temporary challenger, who will soon be challenged again, and be defeated.
- labster 5y agoThere should be an anime adaptation of this story: Sukeban Saru
- rory 5y agoOh wow I missed that, thanks for catching. Given these are Japanese macaques, it looks like typical m/f size difference is more like ~32%, not ~45%, and 10kg puts her larger than the average female, but smaller than the average male. Would be interested in the former alpha males size too, but it's probably safe to assume he was bigger! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_macaque https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_macaque
- prvc 5y agoWell, the law of large numbers makes it understandable.
- clairity 5y agoit’s strength, both psychological and physical, that correlates most closely with dominance, not size or gender/sex, though those of course tend to correlate with physical strength. a nice property of sexual reproduction (as opposed to asexual) is that you get two chances at having generalized strength in parents, as opposed to one, which correlates with greater family fitness and offspring survival. this is probably the biggest misconception in mainstream discussions of gender/sex and power (and part of what makes them so tiresome), which threads through everything from affirmative action to sexual harassment to lgbt rights. multidimensional strength fosters dominance, not just gender/sex or simply size. the dominant (or submissive) gender can be performed by either sex. this is foundational for understanding power dynamics (whether sexual, political, economic, social, religious, or anything else).
- yann2 5y agoOk go read about Gandhi now.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- graderjs 5y agoThis is awesome. To get the top job, she: beat up her own mother; then took on the existing alpha 4x her age, and probably larger; then in the next 'peanut session' he had to backdown and let her eat first; and now she walks with an erect tail and goes and shakes trees for fun--It expresses her power. How cool is that! It just goes to show, it's never about gender, just about choices, ambition and how brave you choose to be. Fuck yeah! I wonder if the social dynamics will change under a (nominally?) female leader?
- lm28469 5y ago> beat up her own mother > just about choices and how brave you choose to be Reminds me of Hollywood directors who think "alpha" women characters have to be regular women with all the traits of "toxic masculinity"
- graderjs 5y agoTotally! Agree that feminists and modern women aspiring to adopt male traits rather than embracing innate female goddess energy and power is stupid, especially when they, at the same time, "stand against" how "toxic" men are. But then again, some of those traits you pretend are toxic, are actually just awesome, and work in the human world. So why should "man" or "woman" polarity have dibs on that stuff? That gendering of traits is the fucking stupid thing I think. Anyone can choose to do anything. Don't trust people who devalue choice, they're the ones that love to try to deflect blame and responsibility onto anyone but themselves. But yeah, the human world is pretty fucked up as a whole, male and female, because we're all full of ape brain shit, of which you're no better being human, too.
- fooperdupes 5y agoTrue progress is the freedom for everyone to be an asshole.
- graderjs 5y agoTongue in cheek but totally true. If everyone has a voice and feels like they can express it (everyone "carries a gun" so to speak) yeah that is a pretty good approximation of true progress.
- AutumnCurtain 5y agoInteresting that she's "walking the walk" in terms of dominance behaviors too. It would be fascinating to study whether she underwent significant hormonal changes after taking leadership or whether she had a different hormonal makeup compared to the average female "follower" even prior to her takeover.
- juanani 5y agoHow dare they and this forum. How dare you all assume they identify as a she. Tsk tsk, where have all the decent folk gone? What a sexist article, shame it's even on the front page. Where are all our precious ethics researchers and the twitter mob?
- tjpnz 5y agoI've been there a few times but always referred to it as "Monkey Mountain", never knew it was called Takasakiyama. If you're in Beppu it's well worth a visit. https://www.japan-guide.com/e/e4703.html https://www.japan-guide.com/e/e4703.html Bear in mind that these are wild animals and that there are days where the park's closed due to no monkeys.
- thaumasiotes 5y agoWell, you had to figure it was named something in Japanese, right? 高崎山 appears to mean "tall, mountainous mountain". Monkeys aren't mentioned, though the name of the monkey preserve, 高崎山自然動物園 "Mount Takasaki Nature Zoo", does mention animals.
- greyfox 5y agoi wonder what implications this has on mating? will she find a mate? Presumably the male would need to dominate her in order to procreate, that does not appear to be the case, currently. Will she attempt to assume the male role in the mating process? Lots of questions here around this issue.
- ipspam 5y agoYes. Many. I think the conservators need to leave a strap on with the food, just in case.
- TheAdamAndChe 5y agoIt would also be interesting to see if the mating strategies and behaviors of the males change too. Let's hope they are thoroughly monitored and studied.
- KONAir 5y agoBench pressing macaques on instagram soon.
- IanClarke 5y agoLet's be honest and address the implicitly given analogy to our modern human world. What are the different motivations males and females have in general and why did she end up in this alpha-position, while still lacking a lot of the advantages a male would have (mating and procreating with a lot of females)? It's because "the other gender" also carries all these (particularly very desirable in one gender) traits in them. I always think of men, which have very attractive daughters, like Billy Ray Cyrus (Miley Cyrus) or Rob Schneider (Elle King), but they themselves can't profit that much from the interesting looks (nose) and rather even look like a bum, themselves. So "the other sex" also inevitably carries around all these (attractive) traits (kind of "reciprocally"), typically: They are there, but don't matter, really. They were inherited and can be passed on, though. And in this very rare case like this: A female became an alpha. Her masculinity traits, which should rather only exist reciprocally within her (as a female), were coming out so strong, that she beat all the males. Though: No mass-mating (offspring) for her, rather likely: No offspring at all.
- lkrubner 5y agoWe should expect to see this throughout the world, as the climate crisis intensifies. We should expect to see this especially in intelligent or social species. Game theory predicts that, from the point of view of parents, when the population is expanding it is better to have sons and when the population is shrinking it is better to have daughters. A son might have a lot of children when times are good and zero children when times are bad. A daughter is likely to always have some children, and therefore is a safer bet when things are bad. This shifts the incentives for parents. When population is falling, parents have an incentive to care less about their sons, and to invest more resources in their daughters. That much is known. We can also speculate that if daughters are now receiving more investment as children, they are better positioned to go higher in society as they become adults. A general shift in political power, throughout social species, should be expected, as the climate crisis threatens more and more species with extinction. This might extent to even those species in zoos, as their population usually is not allowed to expand.
- astrojams 5y agoWow this is fascinating. I'd love to read more about this, do you have any links to articles discussing this behavior?
- lkrubner 5y agoHere is a start, follow the sources from here: https://www.livescience.com/19311-famine-male-births-sex-ratio.html https://www.livescience.com/19311-famine-male-births-sex-rat...
- whatshisface 5y agoThat makes no sense to me because for every child a daughter has, someone's son had a child. It has to balance out unless someone invents monkey mitosis.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- 5y ago
- prestigious 5y agoThat's funny, I keep hearing from largely feminists that "alpha's don't exist in nature, it's a myth"
- fao_ 5y ago"""In 1970, the book The Wolf: Ecology and Behavior of an Endangered Species was published, written by David Mech. It was a success. The book helped to popularize the alpha concept, because many people referred to Mech's work. Mech has written on his website that he repeatedly asked the publisher to stop printing the book because much of the information is outdated — including the concept behind the alpha wolf. Nevertheless, the book is still being sold.""" https://phys.org/news/2021-04-wolf-dont-alpha-males-females.html https://phys.org/news/2021-04-wolf-dont-alpha-males-females....
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- Slow_Hand 5y agoHasn’t the concept of alphas been discredited/debunked by the originator of the concept? Or is that strictly for wolves?
- Tiktaalik 5y agoMaybe "alpha" wolves have been debunked, but there are lots of research that points to matriarchal animal clan organization in other species. Resident Orcas would be a notable example.
- IanClarke 5y agoThe originator of the (generic) concept "alpha" (please let us know who this is / who you think this is) has discontinued the term "alpha" (quite an alpha-decision from him, I would say) due to new insights discovered when observing wolves. Alpha does not exist for wolves (presumably)... and in general. To extend just further (why not) the concept gets fully discontinued, due to public pressure, because everything is equal anyway.
- Slow_Hand 5y agoYou had me until your last sentence. What do you mean that the term is being discontinued due to public pressure? Isn't it natural for concepts to go away if they're found to be inaccurate (ex: phlogiston)? I also don't understand "everything is equal anyway". Could you elaborate? Since you mention the term in relationship to the public, I actually think that "alpha" as a term to describe someone who is dominant has been doing just fine as a societal meme, despite it being used less among biologists/whomever. In this sense it doesn't seem to be going away at all.
- IanClarke 5y agoI am being ironic (which is not allowed here, actually) and I am mocking the SJW an PC pressure, which very few but loud proponents shout out on the internet, mainly social media, today. Wishing away things, like not only the concepts, but also the words. But that won't happen and we see an alpha leader / beneficent dictator (for life) rise again (because it just works so well): Elon Musk.
- vfclists 5y agoToo much estrogen in the water the males are drinking. They have become soy boys. They have become afflicted with the ills of the Western world. Serious