6 ms·

Does this include all the legitimate criticisms of Israel that people try to lazily deflect with accusations of antisemitism? Who is doing the counting?

duxup 5y ago
The article doesn't mention anything like that and gives a good idea of the examples. Did anyone even read the article?
- djohnston 5y ago
  I mean they give some high level examples but it's mostly non-specific and at the discretion of a group whose missions is to report this stuff... In other words... show me the data!
  - duxup 5y ago
    None of their examples included 'criticism of isreal'. And there's a link to the actual report in the story.
  - MattGaiser 5y ago
    https://252f2edd-1c8b-49f5-9bb2-cb57bb47e4ba.filesusr.com/ugd/f4d9b9_9383f90cb66f423dbb5aa0a3dd03cb64.pdf https://252f2edd-1c8b-49f5-9bb2-cb57bb47e4ba.filesusr.com/ug...
- jjoonathan 5y ago
  Why would I need TFA to mention it when I've seen with my own eyes three or four Netanyahu UN hissy fits? You know, the ones where someone curtails military aid and he stands up and compares it to the holocaust?
  - duxup 5y ago
    Are you asking why would you need to read the article that is up for discussion?
    - jjoonathan 5y ago
      Nope. Try reading my post.
inside6 5y ago
Probably isreal themselves since they fund a large online PR army. Why has HN had a bunch of pro-Israel, and poor little isreal type of posts lately? Wouldn't be surprised if related. They need to cover up pegasus.
MattGaiser 5y ago
The report seems to steer clear of anything regarding Palestine and Israel. It is solidly about traditional Jewish conspiracy theories. https://252f2edd-1c8b-49f5-9bb2-cb57bb47e4ba.filesusr.com/ugd/f4d9b9_9383f90cb66f423dbb5aa0a3dd03cb64.pdf https://252f2edd-1c8b-49f5-9bb2-cb57bb47e4ba.filesusr.com/ug...
- mattigames 5y ago
  That report doesn't explicitly states omitting criticism against Israel, any report about anti-semitism that isnt explicitly stating when are Israel/Palestinian conflict comments considered anti-semitism (and when are not) is lacking depth.
  - MattGaiser 5y ago
    It wisely steers clear of a topic which would derail its point.
    - mattigames 5y ago
      Not really, nothing wise given that if you are trying to measure something you need to clearly define it first, and given the amount of controversy around (some or all) criticism against Israel being anti-semitism you need to first clearly define what you are considering is anti-semitism and what is not.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
fennecfoxen 5y ago
The problem with banging the drum about "legitimate criticisms of Israel" is that they're co-occurent with illegitimate criticisms and anti-semitism. There's also a very special kind of monomania. Some big account will post on Twitter or Facebook lamenting violence. "This synagogue in London got vandalized!" for instance, or perhaps "this US citizen living in the state of New York was beaten and there's security camera footage." Then about 500 people will immediately jump in to post, "Israel is bad!!" Here, for instance, is Chelsea Football Club tweeting this past May, about a week after a Norwich synagogue was graffiti'd with a Swastika: https://twitter.com/ChelseaFC/status/1396189477173923853 https://twitter.com/ChelseaFC/status/1396189477173923853 "Chelsea FC stands with the UK's Jewish community, and Jewish communities across the world, in the face of rising antisemitism. This hatred and intimidation towards the Jewish community is unacceptable and must stop." Here's a blue check reply (accompanied by dozens of random Tweeters with the same sentiment): "Condemning Israel attacks is not antisemitism, Supporting Palestine and against settlers is not antisemitism, Anti-Zionism is not Antisemitism". https://twitter.com/ManarSarhan/status/1396207673473970190 https://twitter.com/ManarSarhan/status/1396207673473970190 Consider replacing this with any other race. "Discrimination against African-Americans is bad!" posts the NFL, as someone has burned a cross in front of a Black church. But the Twitter replies stridently call out: "Look at the violence in Africa! Look at the dictatorships! Look at all those schoolgirls who were kidnapped in Zimbabwe!" Would you really tolerate that kind of reply for a second longer than it took you to overcome your disbelief?
- mattigames 5y ago
  Ok, true for replies on unrelated subjects, but stand-alone posts with criticism against Israel also attract that kind of people so then what is the solution, to not post criticism against Israel because it attracts antisemitic people? To not create groups on FB about it for the same reason?
- mikeblackson 5y ago
  African schoolgirls being kidnapped is very different than an apartheid state where the colonizers regularly oppress and murder the indigenous. In May 2021, when that tweet was posted, Palestinian homes were being stolen by what is considered an illegitimate state. Those anti-Israeli posts didn't come out of nowhere.
raxxorrax 5y ago
No.

duxup 5y ago

The article doesn't mention anything like that and gives a good idea of the examples. Did anyone even read the article?

djohnston 5y ago
I mean they give some high level examples but it's mostly non-specific and at the discretion of a group whose missions is to report this stuff... In other words... show me the data!
- duxup 5y ago
  None of their examples included 'criticism of isreal'. And there's a link to the actual report in the story.
- MattGaiser 5y ago
  https://252f2edd-1c8b-49f5-9bb2-cb57bb47e4ba.filesusr.com/ugd/f4d9b9_9383f90cb66f423dbb5aa0a3dd03cb64.pdf https://252f2edd-1c8b-49f5-9bb2-cb57bb47e4ba.filesusr.com/ug...
jjoonathan 5y ago
Why would I need TFA to mention it when I've seen with my own eyes three or four Netanyahu UN hissy fits? You know, the ones where someone curtails military aid and he stands up and compares it to the holocaust?
- duxup 5y ago
  Are you asking why would you need to read the article that is up for discussion?
  - jjoonathan 5y ago
    Nope. Try reading my post.

inside6 5y ago

Probably isreal themselves since they fund a large online PR army. Why has HN had a bunch of pro-Israel, and poor little isreal type of posts lately? Wouldn't be surprised if related. They need to cover up pegasus.

MattGaiser 5y ago

The report seems to steer clear of anything regarding Palestine and Israel. It is solidly about traditional Jewish conspiracy theories. https://252f2edd-1c8b-49f5-9bb2-cb57bb47e4ba.filesusr.com/ugd/f4d9b9_9383f90cb66f423dbb5aa0a3dd03cb64.pdf https://252f2edd-1c8b-49f5-9bb2-cb57bb47e4ba.filesusr.com/ug...

mattigames 5y ago
That report doesn't explicitly states omitting criticism against Israel, any report about anti-semitism that isnt explicitly stating when are Israel/Palestinian conflict comments considered anti-semitism (and when are not) is lacking depth.
- MattGaiser 5y ago
  It wisely steers clear of a topic which would derail its point.
  - mattigames 5y ago
    Not really, nothing wise given that if you are trying to measure something you need to clearly define it first, and given the amount of controversy around (some or all) criticism against Israel being anti-semitism you need to first clearly define what you are considering is anti-semitism and what is not.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

fennecfoxen 5y ago

The problem with banging the drum about "legitimate criticisms of Israel" is that they're co-occurent with illegitimate criticisms and anti-semitism. There's also a very special kind of monomania. Some big account will post on Twitter or Facebook lamenting violence. "This synagogue in London got vandalized!" for instance, or perhaps "this US citizen living in the state of New York was beaten and there's security camera footage." Then about 500 people will immediately jump in to post, "Israel is bad!!" Here, for instance, is Chelsea Football Club tweeting this past May, about a week after a Norwich synagogue was graffiti'd with a Swastika: https://twitter.com/ChelseaFC/status/1396189477173923853 https://twitter.com/ChelseaFC/status/1396189477173923853 "Chelsea FC stands with the UK's Jewish community, and Jewish communities across the world, in the face of rising antisemitism. This hatred and intimidation towards the Jewish community is unacceptable and must stop." Here's a blue check reply (accompanied by dozens of random Tweeters with the same sentiment): "Condemning Israel attacks is not antisemitism, Supporting Palestine and against settlers is not antisemitism, Anti-Zionism is not Antisemitism". https://twitter.com/ManarSarhan/status/1396207673473970190 https://twitter.com/ManarSarhan/status/1396207673473970190 Consider replacing this with any other race. "Discrimination against African-Americans is bad!" posts the NFL, as someone has burned a cross in front of a Black church. But the Twitter replies stridently call out: "Look at the violence in Africa! Look at the dictatorships! Look at all those schoolgirls who were kidnapped in Zimbabwe!" Would you really tolerate that kind of reply for a second longer than it took you to overcome your disbelief?

mattigames 5y ago
Ok, true for replies on unrelated subjects, but stand-alone posts with criticism against Israel also attract that kind of people so then what is the solution, to not post criticism against Israel because it attracts antisemitic people? To not create groups on FB about it for the same reason?
mikeblackson 5y ago
African schoolgirls being kidnapped is very different than an apartheid state where the colonizers regularly oppress and murder the indigenous. In May 2021, when that tweet was posted, Palestinian homes were being stolen by what is considered an illegitimate state. Those anti-Israeli posts didn't come out of nowhere.

raxxorrax 5y ago

No.