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> At this point I'm pretty sure FAANG hiring is just a random walk. Every now again someone happens to have looked at all the questions they ask recently for t

> At this point I'm pretty sure FAANG hiring is just a random walk. Every now again someone happens to have looked at all the questions they ask recently for that particular interview cycle (or avoid the trap ones like that) and that person gets hired (and then put on the ad targeting team or whatever). This might actually be part of the retention strategy. If everyone who works at FAANG knows that they're somewhat lucky to get in, regardless of ability, it means they are less likely to jump ship. What's the point in applying for another job when you're already paid well and it's unlikely to end in anything but lost time? You're unlikely to win a 10% lottery twice, given the amount of time you'd bother investing.

oblio 5y ago
Congrats, you're discovered why hazing rituals have been a thing for thousands of years!
cainxinth 5y ago
You’re forgetting that it’s easier to get a FAANG job once you’ve already had one. They love to poach each other’s people.
- bigbillheck 5y ago
  > They love to poach each other’s people The 'FA.N.' part of it maybe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust_Litigation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust_L...
- Lio 5y ago
  If that's true it's at least is a change from the "no poaching" agreements that used to exist.
  - Twirrim 5y ago
    It's very true, and very natural. It's one reason why FAANG salaries have been getting so high. If I change jobs, and find myself in a good situation, and need more head-count, I'm going to reach out to people I like that I've worked with before, see if they might be interested in a job change. I know I can work with them, know we'll build good stuff. There's a constant drive in FAANG to hire more people, most teams have open headcounts. To the degree that it's extremely hard to build up that funnel of candidates. If my team has a head-count of 5, that realistically means I've got to find a bare minimum of 30-40 candidates to enter in to the pipeline from somewhere, to maybe get close to that target. That's a slightly optimistic conversion rate. Now scale that up across a company with thousands of teams that are hiring. Getting that pipeline filled on that scale is crazy. It's just one of many reasons why FAANG go all in on college hiring events. I can almost 100% guarantee to get someone I've worked with in a FAANG co-worker through the interview pipeline and in to a job. They know their shit, they know what they're doing, and they know what the process is like.
  - heavyset_go 5y ago
    It's because the DoJ Antitrust Division came down on them hard in 2010[1], and part of the settlement forbade the companies from engaging in that behavior again. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust_Litigation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust_L...
throwaway9191aa 5y ago
I'll just +1 this as a datapoint. I am not looking externally until I'm sure I'm done at AWS. I've done 80+ interviews here, and I'm consistently amazed by what drives people to say "The candidate wasn't up to the coding bar". As far as I can tell, you are almost never up to the coding bar. I think we interview so many people just to remind ourselves that if we leave, we aren't getting back in. Just to head off the "So why don't I argue for change?" questions, I'd rather work on self improvement than fight tooth and nail to make the hiring process a little bit better. I'll let somebody else add that to their promo doc.
- pm90 5y ago
  You don’t need to fight tooth and nail for change. Expressing dissent or disagreement with the status quo is a good start.
  - pinewurst 5y ago
    At Amazon, that’s considered volunteering for a PIP.
- the_only_law 5y ago
  I remember seeing a comment about Amazon once claiming in order to be seriously considered for a role, you have to be better than 50% of the existing team you’d be coming onto.
  - themulticaster 5y ago
    To be fair, that would mean that your ability level is the median ability of the team you'd be joining, which doesn't sound all that far-fetched to me. If the skill level of new hires is always close to the median, the overall team ability should stay the same in the long run. This line of thought obviously depends on the assumption that you can measure the exact ability using just a single quantity.
    - QuercusMax 5y ago
Bodell 5y ago
Sometimes I see articles about a wrongfully convicted man being let out of prison. This usually comes with a cash payment of some sort. The whole we took 20 years of your life, oops, here’s a million dollars. Every time I see this though I think ‘no, no way does money replace my time.’ That’s simply not good enough. And not because the payments are usually ludicrously low, but because there is no amount of money that would buy off my life. Same as there is no amount of money you could give me to end my life, a position which I assume is shared by a vast majority of humans. Time is not money. It’s not even close as an exchange rate. I would never put myself through these types of interview processes (not to mention that I would assume that sort of thing to be indicative of the job itself and company as a whole) because I value my actual life and dignity far and above what I value as an upper middle class income.
- bbarnett 5y ago
  Yes and what this means is that Google, and others, are hiring those most willing to do anything for money. That always works out well.
- BurningFrog 5y ago
  > Same as there is no amount of money you could give me to end my life, a position which I assume is shared by a vast majority of humans. Pretty sure a lot of older parents would take a deal with lethal injection + $1M for their kids to inherit.
- dagw 5y ago
  I value my actual life and dignity far and above what I value as an upper middle class income. I am at least 90% sure that part of these interviews is to filter out people who these sorts of views. These employer would much rather have someone who wants to work 100 hour weeks and be the 'hero' over someone who works exactly 8-4 monday-friday and then goes home.
- notJim 5y ago
  IDK, if the interview is just a few hours of misery to get a significant financial upside, it's not such a big deal. People always assume the job will be miserable too, but that varies from team to team. Especially because the salary is high enough that you may be able to save enough to buy your life back if you're careful and have time on your side.
eatbitseveryday 5y ago
One can interview without quitting the current job. That allows for multiple attempts over time while retaining the current status. People may do so to see what pay they’d be offered.

oblio 5y ago

Congrats, you're discovered why hazing rituals have been a thing for thousands of years!

cainxinth 5y ago

You’re forgetting that it’s easier to get a FAANG job once you’ve already had one. They love to poach each other’s people.

bigbillheck 5y ago
> They love to poach each other’s people The 'FA.N.' part of it maybe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust_Litigation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust_L...
Lio 5y ago
If that's true it's at least is a change from the "no poaching" agreements that used to exist.
- Twirrim 5y ago
  It's very true, and very natural. It's one reason why FAANG salaries have been getting so high. If I change jobs, and find myself in a good situation, and need more head-count, I'm going to reach out to people I like that I've worked with before, see if they might be interested in a job change. I know I can work with them, know we'll build good stuff. There's a constant drive in FAANG to hire more people, most teams have open headcounts. To the degree that it's extremely hard to build up that funnel of candidates. If my team has a head-count of 5, that realistically means I've got to find a bare minimum of 30-40 candidates to enter in to the pipeline from somewhere, to maybe get close to that target. That's a slightly optimistic conversion rate. Now scale that up across a company with thousands of teams that are hiring. Getting that pipeline filled on that scale is crazy. It's just one of many reasons why FAANG go all in on college hiring events. I can almost 100% guarantee to get someone I've worked with in a FAANG co-worker through the interview pipeline and in to a job. They know their shit, they know what they're doing, and they know what the process is like.
- heavyset_go 5y ago
  It's because the DoJ Antitrust Division came down on them hard in 2010[1], and part of the settlement forbade the companies from engaging in that behavior again. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust_Litigation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust_L...

throwaway9191aa 5y ago

I'll just +1 this as a datapoint. I am not looking externally until I'm sure I'm done at AWS. I've done 80+ interviews here, and I'm consistently amazed by what drives people to say "The candidate wasn't up to the coding bar". As far as I can tell, you are almost never up to the coding bar. I think we interview so many people just to remind ourselves that if we leave, we aren't getting back in. Just to head off the "So why don't I argue for change?" questions, I'd rather work on self improvement than fight tooth and nail to make the hiring process a little bit better. I'll let somebody else add that to their promo doc.

pm90 5y ago
You don’t need to fight tooth and nail for change. Expressing dissent or disagreement with the status quo is a good start.
- pinewurst 5y ago
  At Amazon, that’s considered volunteering for a PIP.
the_only_law 5y ago
I remember seeing a comment about Amazon once claiming in order to be seriously considered for a role, you have to be better than 50% of the existing team you’d be coming onto.
- themulticaster 5y ago
  To be fair, that would mean that your ability level is the median ability of the team you'd be joining, which doesn't sound all that far-fetched to me. If the skill level of new hires is always close to the median, the overall team ability should stay the same in the long run. This line of thought obviously depends on the assumption that you can measure the exact ability using just a single quantity.
  - QuercusMax 5y ago

Bodell 5y ago

Sometimes I see articles about a wrongfully convicted man being let out of prison. This usually comes with a cash payment of some sort. The whole we took 20 years of your life, oops, here’s a million dollars. Every time I see this though I think ‘no, no way does money replace my time.’ That’s simply not good enough. And not because the payments are usually ludicrously low, but because there is no amount of money that would buy off my life. Same as there is no amount of money you could give me to end my life, a position which I assume is shared by a vast majority of humans. Time is not money. It’s not even close as an exchange rate. I would never put myself through these types of interview processes (not to mention that I would assume that sort of thing to be indicative of the job itself and company as a whole) because I value my actual life and dignity far and above what I value as an upper middle class income.

bbarnett 5y ago
Yes and what this means is that Google, and others, are hiring those most willing to do anything for money. That always works out well.
BurningFrog 5y ago
> Same as there is no amount of money you could give me to end my life, a position which I assume is shared by a vast majority of humans. Pretty sure a lot of older parents would take a deal with lethal injection + $1M for their kids to inherit.
dagw 5y ago
I value my actual life and dignity far and above what I value as an upper middle class income. I am at least 90% sure that part of these interviews is to filter out people who these sorts of views. These employer would much rather have someone who wants to work 100 hour weeks and be the 'hero' over someone who works exactly 8-4 monday-friday and then goes home.
notJim 5y ago
IDK, if the interview is just a few hours of misery to get a significant financial upside, it's not such a big deal. People always assume the job will be miserable too, but that varies from team to team. Especially because the salary is high enough that you may be able to save enough to buy your life back if you're careful and have time on your side.

eatbitseveryday 5y ago

One can interview without quitting the current job. That allows for multiple attempts over time while retaining the current status. People may do so to see what pay they’d be offered.