12 ms·

"Our clients only use the software against terrorists and criminals" => So this means that French PM Macron is a terrorist or criminal - for somebody who built

by pulse7 5y ago

"Our clients only use the software against terrorists and criminals" => So this means that French PM Macron is a terrorist or criminal - for somebody who built this software...

tasogare 5y ago
Given he wasted millions years of living from the population by locking them down, heavily damaged the economy by doing so and he's now discriminating the population around a medical variable, calling him a criminal isn't that far-fetched. And before you jump on me with "it was necessary", no it wasn't, as shown by Japan, Korea and Taiwan way of dealing with the pandemic. (He also sold national strategic interests to foreign powers)
- noduerme 5y ago
  You know, Israel was the first country to require a vaccine passport to go to the gym. However they simply made it so difficult to avoid vaccination that everyone did it. I'm pretty sure the Israeli government is not in the business of sterilizing Jews, so, I would say it's probably safe. Take the vaccine and get the passport and go out. It's a benefit of living in a first world country.
  - Guthur 5y ago
    Sounds more like autocracy to me. Whether or not you want to have a vaccine or not is irrelevant to the fact that wanting a government to coerce people into a medical treatment is a Pandora's box I'm not sure we should really be so keen on.
    - saiya-jin 5y ago
      You can't assess these things (or anything in real world) alone, but in context of what's going on in the whole world (and what isn't). After that, its on everybody how they view their personal freedom and themselves vs the averaged good of the whole nation/civilization.
      - Guthur 5y ago
        Who gets to define the greater good? We had share morals at one time with religion but that's been tore down relentless so what are those shared ideals now. The fact of the matter is that eradication is impossible so what are we actually trying to achieve here. Reduce impact on health care? Maybe we should ban smoking and alcohol then or maybe MacDonalds, where is the line?
        cutemonster 5y ago
        > Who gets to define the greater good? One answer is the voters and the government they choose (if it's an okay functioning democracy)
        fidesomnes 5y ago
        No wonder it's a disaster.
        nybble41 5y ago
        Well that's certain an answer. Voters and non-voters alike are, of course, free to define "the greater good" for themselves provided they refrain from harming others while putting their definition into practice, but what moral justification do the winners of an election have to enforce their definition on anyone else or harm others to implement it just because they were backed by an arbitrarily small majority of the voters? Which is a subset of the eligible voting population, and (perhaps more importantly) an even smaller subset of those who will be affected?
        wizzwizz4 5y ago
        > The fact of the matter is that eradication is impossible https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smallpox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smallpox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rinderpest https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rinderpest And in-progress: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poliomyelitis_eradication https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poliomyelitis_eradication https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eradication_of_dracunculiasis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eradication_of_dracunculiasis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yaws https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yaws https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaria https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaria Your claim is empirically false.
    - stjohnswarts 5y ago
      Requiring a vaccine isn't a "Pandora's box", if that were true we would have been a dictatorship decades ago when other vaccines were required. People have no perspective on anything these days or general knowledge about history.
  - refurb 5y ago
    Everyone did it? According to the NYTimes 64% of Israeli’s have had one shot, while many countries like Canada are 72%. Israel seems behind?
    - katbyte 5y ago
      canada is over 81% of the eligible
    - matmatmatmat 5y ago
      > canada is over 81% of the eligible Cries in American.
- Synaesthesia 5y ago
  >Japan, Korea and Taiwan way of dealing with the pandemic. Which is extremely strict rules, everybody wears masks and socially distances. In Korea you can't even have more than 4 people get together without using the government website.
- southerntofu 5y ago
  I can assure you as a French person the economy is the least of our worries. Yes Macron is a criminal, but not for the reasons you say. We live in the 5th richest nation on Earth, that profits from pillaging its neocolonies all across the planet, so there is an abundance of resources to feed and house everyone if the government wanted it. Of course the government, as any government ever, is an enemy of the people and wants to wage-enslave its population to benefit those who are already privileged.
  - bengalister 5y ago
    France is not the 5th richest nation, it is 7th ordered by GDP.
classified 5y ago
Circular arguments are so convenient. And apparently "terrorists" and "criminals" (by whose definition?) have no rights whatsoever, so whatever you do to them cannot be wrong.
- DSingularity 5y ago
  The problem is it kind of works. Israeli propagandists describe anyone who opposes Israeli war crimes or anyone that critiques their continued colonization of Palestinians as terrorist sympathizers. Guess what seemingly everyone in media/politics avoid?
  - jessaustin 5y ago
    "Terrorist sympathizer" is a milder slander than the one they really like to use for critics of Israel's actions, "antisemitic".
    - pulse7 5y ago
      Aren't Arabs also "semitic people" [1]? (Since Ishmael and Abraham are also descendants of Shem...). In this case "antisemitic" would also mean "against Arabs"... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic_people https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic_people
      - fidesomnes 5y ago
        This is embarrassing.
      - wchar_t 5y ago
        Yes, they are also a Semitic group, but "Anti-Semitic" has come to refer to hatred specifically against Israelis. Maybe because that hatred is more widespread than hatred against all Semitic people...?
        olivierduval 5y ago
southerntofu 5y ago
I know it's just PR bullshit like Amesys/Qosmos execs did 10 years ago pretending their surveillance software was only used to catch pedophiles and terrorists (despite human rights orgs being on their lists)... funny btw that 4 Amesys/Qosmos execs have just been indicted this month. However, as a french person i must agree Macron is a criminal and a terrorist. A criminal because he goes (as most presidents would) against the word and spirit of human rights declarations and constitution by promoting destruction of public services in a time of pandemic, immunity of cop murderers, abolition of taxes for the rich (ISF) while lowering social benefits for the poor, etc... All while having no respect for what would be considered "due process", exploiting loopholes intended for emergency situations (49-3) to bypass the votes of the parliament. A terrorist, because despite presenting as a reasonable face opposed to Le Pen on ideological ground, he introduced new racist laws (eg. doubling of administrative retention for undocumented people from 45 to 90 days) and opposed the Aquarius crew coming into France (despite Corsica welcoming them, the government placed a veto). A terrorist, because the people opposing his government had to face the most brutal repression France has known since may 69 and/or the anti-colonial "Algeria war". A grandma (Zyneb Redouane) killed in her home by cops aiming at her during a demo is unprecedented. So is a young man (Steve) murdered by the cops on Music Day 2019, or the one who got his hand blown up by "non-lethal weapons" this year when over 1500 grenades were fired at a peaceful free party. So is the thousands of mutilated people from just attending a demonstrations: bruises and deaths were quite common a few decades ago (even though the 80-90-00's were a lot more calm), but now proper mutilation and handicap awaits you, mostly caused by police grenades (yes they contain actual military explosives). If you wanna see what that looks like (CONTENT WARNING) -> http://lemurjaune.fr/ http://lemurjaune.fr/ (that's only from the gilets jaunes protests). So yes, Macron is a terrorist. We are terrorized of him and his militias. And while he says anarchists and muslims are the terrorists in this country, most of us know not to listen to TV, and that the real terrorists are wearing suits and uniforms. See also Lowkey's take on that (content warning) -> https://youtube.com/watch?v=kmBnvajSfWU https://youtube.com/watch?v=kmBnvajSfWU
- bengalister 5y ago
  Wrong and exaggerated on so many levels. What you are saying is caricature of the left extremist way of thinking. No the yellow vest movement was nothing but peaceful, quite violent actually, throwing cobbles or molotov cocktails at police forces, using forklifts to force their way or destroy public properties, burning banks, setting cars on fire, etc. They were even allowed to demonstrate every week for at least 2 years. They caused the death of at least 10 people mostly through traffic crash by blocking highways. Also they are really not representative of the French people but they wanted to impose their ideas, not democratic at all, much like what happened in the Capitol. The Aquarius is one of these supposedly humanitarian boats that pickup immigrants just 50km off the Libyan coasts, just where the international waters start. They basically behave like traffic smugglers and encourage people to try the crossing to Sicily. Steve was not killed by the police.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
JohnFen 5y ago
Sure. The really convenient thing about "terrorists and criminals" is that the definition of who counts as those is incredibly flexible.

by pulse7 5y ago

"Our clients only use the software against terrorists and criminals" => So this means that French PM Macron is a terrorist or criminal - for somebody who built this software...

tasogare 5y ago

Given he wasted millions years of living from the population by locking them down, heavily damaged the economy by doing so and he's now discriminating the population around a medical variable, calling him a criminal isn't that far-fetched. And before you jump on me with "it was necessary", no it wasn't, as shown by Japan, Korea and Taiwan way of dealing with the pandemic. (He also sold national strategic interests to foreign powers)

noduerme 5y ago
You know, Israel was the first country to require a vaccine passport to go to the gym. However they simply made it so difficult to avoid vaccination that everyone did it. I'm pretty sure the Israeli government is not in the business of sterilizing Jews, so, I would say it's probably safe. Take the vaccine and get the passport and go out. It's a benefit of living in a first world country.
- Guthur 5y ago
  Sounds more like autocracy to me. Whether or not you want to have a vaccine or not is irrelevant to the fact that wanting a government to coerce people into a medical treatment is a Pandora's box I'm not sure we should really be so keen on.
  - saiya-jin 5y ago
    You can't assess these things (or anything in real world) alone, but in context of what's going on in the whole world (and what isn't). After that, its on everybody how they view their personal freedom and themselves vs the averaged good of the whole nation/civilization.
    - Guthur 5y ago
      Who gets to define the greater good? We had share morals at one time with religion but that's been tore down relentless so what are those shared ideals now. The fact of the matter is that eradication is impossible so what are we actually trying to achieve here. Reduce impact on health care? Maybe we should ban smoking and alcohol then or maybe MacDonalds, where is the line?
      - cutemonster 5y ago
        > Who gets to define the greater good? One answer is the voters and the government they choose (if it's an okay functioning democracy)
        fidesomnes 5y ago
        No wonder it's a disaster.
        nybble41 5y ago
        Well that's certain an answer. Voters and non-voters alike are, of course, free to define "the greater good" for themselves provided they refrain from harming others while putting their definition into practice, but what moral justification do the winners of an election have to enforce their definition on anyone else or harm others to implement it just because they were backed by an arbitrarily small majority of the voters? Which is a subset of the eligible voting population, and (perhaps more importantly) an even smaller subset of those who will be affected?
      - wizzwizz4 5y ago
        > The fact of the matter is that eradication is impossible https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smallpox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smallpox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rinderpest https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rinderpest And in-progress: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poliomyelitis_eradication https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poliomyelitis_eradication https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eradication_of_dracunculiasis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eradication_of_dracunculiasis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yaws https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yaws https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaria https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaria Your claim is empirically false.
  - stjohnswarts 5y ago
    Requiring a vaccine isn't a "Pandora's box", if that were true we would have been a dictatorship decades ago when other vaccines were required. People have no perspective on anything these days or general knowledge about history.
- refurb 5y ago
  Everyone did it? According to the NYTimes 64% of Israeli’s have had one shot, while many countries like Canada are 72%. Israel seems behind?
  - katbyte 5y ago
    canada is over 81% of the eligible
  - matmatmatmat 5y ago
    > canada is over 81% of the eligible Cries in American.
Synaesthesia 5y ago
>Japan, Korea and Taiwan way of dealing with the pandemic. Which is extremely strict rules, everybody wears masks and socially distances. In Korea you can't even have more than 4 people get together without using the government website.
southerntofu 5y ago
I can assure you as a French person the economy is the least of our worries. Yes Macron is a criminal, but not for the reasons you say. We live in the 5th richest nation on Earth, that profits from pillaging its neocolonies all across the planet, so there is an abundance of resources to feed and house everyone if the government wanted it. Of course the government, as any government ever, is an enemy of the people and wants to wage-enslave its population to benefit those who are already privileged.
- bengalister 5y ago
  France is not the 5th richest nation, it is 7th ordered by GDP.

classified 5y ago

Circular arguments are so convenient. And apparently "terrorists" and "criminals" (by whose definition?) have no rights whatsoever, so whatever you do to them cannot be wrong.

DSingularity 5y ago
The problem is it kind of works. Israeli propagandists describe anyone who opposes Israeli war crimes or anyone that critiques their continued colonization of Palestinians as terrorist sympathizers. Guess what seemingly everyone in media/politics avoid?
- jessaustin 5y ago
  "Terrorist sympathizer" is a milder slander than the one they really like to use for critics of Israel's actions, "antisemitic".
  - pulse7 5y ago
    Aren't Arabs also "semitic people" [1]? (Since Ishmael and Abraham are also descendants of Shem...). In this case "antisemitic" would also mean "against Arabs"... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic_people https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic_people
    - fidesomnes 5y ago
      This is embarrassing.
    - wchar_t 5y ago
      Yes, they are also a Semitic group, but "Anti-Semitic" has come to refer to hatred specifically against Israelis. Maybe because that hatred is more widespread than hatred against all Semitic people...?
      - olivierduval 5y ago

southerntofu 5y ago

I know it's just PR bullshit like Amesys/Qosmos execs did 10 years ago pretending their surveillance software was only used to catch pedophiles and terrorists (despite human rights orgs being on their lists)... funny btw that 4 Amesys/Qosmos execs have just been indicted this month. However, as a french person i must agree Macron is a criminal and a terrorist. A criminal because he goes (as most presidents would) against the word and spirit of human rights declarations and constitution by promoting destruction of public services in a time of pandemic, immunity of cop murderers, abolition of taxes for the rich (ISF) while lowering social benefits for the poor, etc... All while having no respect for what would be considered "due process", exploiting loopholes intended for emergency situations (49-3) to bypass the votes of the parliament. A terrorist, because despite presenting as a reasonable face opposed to Le Pen on ideological ground, he introduced new racist laws (eg. doubling of administrative retention for undocumented people from 45 to 90 days) and opposed the Aquarius crew coming into France (despite Corsica welcoming them, the government placed a veto). A terrorist, because the people opposing his government had to face the most brutal repression France has known since may 69 and/or the anti-colonial "Algeria war". A grandma (Zyneb Redouane) killed in her home by cops aiming at her during a demo is unprecedented. So is a young man (Steve) murdered by the cops on Music Day 2019, or the one who got his hand blown up by "non-lethal weapons" this year when over 1500 grenades were fired at a peaceful free party. So is the thousands of mutilated people from just attending a demonstrations: bruises and deaths were quite common a few decades ago (even though the 80-90-00's were a lot more calm), but now proper mutilation and handicap awaits you, mostly caused by police grenades (yes they contain actual military explosives). If you wanna see what that looks like (CONTENT WARNING) -> http://lemurjaune.fr/ http://lemurjaune.fr/ (that's only from the gilets jaunes protests). So yes, Macron is a terrorist. We are terrorized of him and his militias. And while he says anarchists and muslims are the terrorists in this country, most of us know not to listen to TV, and that the real terrorists are wearing suits and uniforms. See also Lowkey's take on that (content warning) -> https://youtube.com/watch?v=kmBnvajSfWU https://youtube.com/watch?v=kmBnvajSfWU

bengalister 5y ago
Wrong and exaggerated on so many levels. What you are saying is caricature of the left extremist way of thinking. No the yellow vest movement was nothing but peaceful, quite violent actually, throwing cobbles or molotov cocktails at police forces, using forklifts to force their way or destroy public properties, burning banks, setting cars on fire, etc. They were even allowed to demonstrate every week for at least 2 years. They caused the death of at least 10 people mostly through traffic crash by blocking highways. Also they are really not representative of the French people but they wanted to impose their ideas, not democratic at all, much like what happened in the Capitol. The Aquarius is one of these supposedly humanitarian boats that pickup immigrants just 50km off the Libyan coasts, just where the international waters start. They basically behave like traffic smugglers and encourage people to try the crossing to Sicily. Steve was not killed by the police.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

JohnFen 5y ago

Sure. The really convenient thing about "terrorists and criminals" is that the definition of who counts as those is incredibly flexible.