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The genie might be out of the bottle here for them. A lot of investigative journalism now coming out (1) which shows that Pegasus is really just the tip of the

The genie might be out of the bottle here for them. A lot of investigative journalism now coming out (1) which shows that Pegasus is really just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to Israeli spyware. (1) https://www.mintpressnews.com/meet-toka-the-most-dangerous-israeli-spyware-firm-youve-never-heard-of/278020/ https://www.mintpressnews.com/meet-toka-the-most-dangerous-i...

adav 5y ago
That's a very questionable source. With such an overtly anti-Israel position, that's probably best taken with a large pinch of salt.
- user-the-name 5y ago
  Yes, that site bears all the hallmarks of a misinformation front: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MintPress_News https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MintPress_News The author of the article also seems to be severely lacking in good judgement, since she seems to have appeared on the podcast of anti-vaxxer RFK Jr recently.
  - Ticklee 5y ago
    Wikipedia is also a misinformation front though, as far as all it does it consolidate media opinions on any given topic.
    - user-the-name 5y ago
      Come on, you know that's a bullshit response.
  - encryptluks2 5y ago
    It seems that many prominent Zionist are very friendly with alt-right and conservative types until it is convenient for them to play the antisemitism card and then suddenly they question their judgement.
- l33tbro 5y ago
  Do you actually have counter-arguments to her findings here?
- dpwm 5y ago
  Should we take the sometimes-overtly, other-times-covertly pro-Israel position of much of the western media with a similar pinch of salt?
  - keewee7 5y ago
    Opinions on Israel-Palestine seem to depend on generation. Boomer journalists are pro-Israel and millennial journalists seem to be pro-Palestinian. In the recent conflict NYT and WaPost were pro-Palestinian unlike the conflict in 2014 when they were neutral. In 2008/2009 they were openly pro-Israel.
- dessant 5y ago
  I'm not familiar with the source, but can you give us a reason why one should be pro-Israel in this instance? I see nothing wrong with condemning the actions of the Israeli government, nor questioning why one of the prominent exports of the Israeli technology sector is surveillance. I keep being contacted several times a year by established Israeli companies to add spyware into my projects. A couple of weeks ago I was offered $5000 as a sign up bonus by Bright Data (formerly Luminati), before that a growth specialist from Similarweb contacted me to gather intelligence about how to aquire Firefox for Android extensions, it was so slimy I've reported the latter to Mozilla employees. I can't come up with a single country with such a disproportionate amount of shady companies specialized in online tracking and surveillance compared to the small population size.
  - noduerme 5y ago
    >> can you give us a reason why one should be pro-Israel in this instance? Because when it's done in the interest of preventing another holocaust, which is the entire reason for the existence of Israel, it's not the same as when the Chinese government does it to terrify and imprison minorities, or when Russia does it to destroy Putin's personal opponents. I too question their choice of who they licensed this tech to, but hopefully they got plenty of useful intel on those governments along the way.
    - disgu 5y ago
      How is that a reason? This stuff is always justified by claiming it ensures the safety of people. Another justification has never existed for any of these.
    - Cyph0n 5y ago
      How does selling spyware to authoritarian governments so that they can monitor activists and journalists “prevent another Holocaust”?
      - noduerme 5y ago
        Presumably, the real interest of the Israeli government, to the extent it's involved, is in monitoring the people they sold the software to.
- xvector 5y ago
  I cannot imagine how someone could possibly be pro-Israel in the specific context of cybercrime and cyberwarfare. They are literally enabling regimes to blackmail and murder innocent, good people. Also, please provide actual counterarguments.
  - user-the-name 5y ago
    Is it Israel, the state, that is doing that?
    - helge9210 5y ago
      Yes. Every sale is approved by at least to ministers.
      - wizzwizz4 5y ago
        That's interesting. Do you have a source?
        kota2 5y ago
        Sure, there is many: https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/interactive/2021/nso-spyware-pegasus-cellphones/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/interactive/20... "The Israeli Defense Ministry must approve any license to a government that wants to buy it, according to previous NSO statements."
- 3327 5y ago
  The source may be questionable, but very likely it is the TIP of the iceberg...
emacsen 5y ago
As others have mentioned, the source you're citing is at best highly questionable. The amount of leaps the article makes is just out of this world, mostly that this Israeli company has Israelis involved, and that Israelis who have experience with mathematics and computer work also serve their mandatory military service in an intelligence unit of the military rather than as foot soldiers and that an Israeli company has Israeli investors. Israel is a tiny country the size of New Jersey, the fact that there will be overlap of people and connections between them is always the case- there's nothing nefarious about it. Anyway, looking at the author's twitter gives one a good look into what this looks like if taken outside the context of Israel: https://twitter.com/_whitneywebb?lang=en https://twitter.com/_whitneywebb?lang=en She's an anti-vaxxer talking about how the "ruling class" of using COVID to gain control over the population, about hidden FBI assets, and a ton about how the anti-Defmation League, a group that collects data on antisemitism is really a massive spy network. If it weren't so scary that people believe in it, it might be funny. There's no reason to put any more credence in her
- noduerme 5y ago
  The really scary part is that Q nuts like this are now running the Republican party, and they have no love for Israel. The second most egregious mistake Netanyahu made, after bowing to the settlers, was staking Israel's future on an alliance with the American right. Only the four people at Commentary Magazine believe there's still a non-crazy conservative movement in the US who wouldn't turn on Israel in a heartbeat... although they have a point that the progressives already have done so. The penning of this article really closes the circle of right/left conspiracy theory. If there's one thing all conspiracy theorists can agree on, it's the Jews. I think that's what you're seeing that's disturbing.
  - pasabagi 5y ago
    Mmm, I think at the end of the day, Israel is probably the only reliable strategic partner in a resource-rich region full of basketcases. At worst, they'll have to tone it down a bit. If the US ceases to back them, they can always find a new backer.
toofy 5y ago
I understand how messy the context surrounding this next point is but it’s worth considering. From what Ive been seeing over the past couple weeks, the article is probably correct in that pegasus is just the beginning of what we’re going to find out regarding how deep the rabbit hole goes with israeli malware firms, however mint press has a very long history of what may be questionable funding and there have been quite a lot of organizations who have done some pretty well researched investigating that implicates mint press in some pretty nasty propaganda. Again, I understand how complicated and messy this kind of thing can be, but if you at all value accuracy in your analysis, it would absolutely be worth looking at some of their history regarding incredibly questionable funding and very strange propaganda for certain regimes.

adav 5y ago

That's a very questionable source. With such an overtly anti-Israel position, that's probably best taken with a large pinch of salt.

user-the-name 5y ago
Yes, that site bears all the hallmarks of a misinformation front: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MintPress_News https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MintPress_News The author of the article also seems to be severely lacking in good judgement, since she seems to have appeared on the podcast of anti-vaxxer RFK Jr recently.
- Ticklee 5y ago
  Wikipedia is also a misinformation front though, as far as all it does it consolidate media opinions on any given topic.
  - user-the-name 5y ago
    Come on, you know that's a bullshit response.
- encryptluks2 5y ago
  It seems that many prominent Zionist are very friendly with alt-right and conservative types until it is convenient for them to play the antisemitism card and then suddenly they question their judgement.
l33tbro 5y ago
Do you actually have counter-arguments to her findings here?
dpwm 5y ago
Should we take the sometimes-overtly, other-times-covertly pro-Israel position of much of the western media with a similar pinch of salt?
- keewee7 5y ago
  Opinions on Israel-Palestine seem to depend on generation. Boomer journalists are pro-Israel and millennial journalists seem to be pro-Palestinian. In the recent conflict NYT and WaPost were pro-Palestinian unlike the conflict in 2014 when they were neutral. In 2008/2009 they were openly pro-Israel.
dessant 5y ago
I'm not familiar with the source, but can you give us a reason why one should be pro-Israel in this instance? I see nothing wrong with condemning the actions of the Israeli government, nor questioning why one of the prominent exports of the Israeli technology sector is surveillance. I keep being contacted several times a year by established Israeli companies to add spyware into my projects. A couple of weeks ago I was offered $5000 as a sign up bonus by Bright Data (formerly Luminati), before that a growth specialist from Similarweb contacted me to gather intelligence about how to aquire Firefox for Android extensions, it was so slimy I've reported the latter to Mozilla employees. I can't come up with a single country with such a disproportionate amount of shady companies specialized in online tracking and surveillance compared to the small population size.
- noduerme 5y ago
  >> can you give us a reason why one should be pro-Israel in this instance? Because when it's done in the interest of preventing another holocaust, which is the entire reason for the existence of Israel, it's not the same as when the Chinese government does it to terrify and imprison minorities, or when Russia does it to destroy Putin's personal opponents. I too question their choice of who they licensed this tech to, but hopefully they got plenty of useful intel on those governments along the way.
  - disgu 5y ago
    How is that a reason? This stuff is always justified by claiming it ensures the safety of people. Another justification has never existed for any of these.
  - Cyph0n 5y ago
    How does selling spyware to authoritarian governments so that they can monitor activists and journalists “prevent another Holocaust”?
    - noduerme 5y ago
      Presumably, the real interest of the Israeli government, to the extent it's involved, is in monitoring the people they sold the software to.
xvector 5y ago
I cannot imagine how someone could possibly be pro-Israel in the specific context of cybercrime and cyberwarfare. They are literally enabling regimes to blackmail and murder innocent, good people. Also, please provide actual counterarguments.
- user-the-name 5y ago
  Is it Israel, the state, that is doing that?
  - helge9210 5y ago
    Yes. Every sale is approved by at least to ministers.
    - wizzwizz4 5y ago
      That's interesting. Do you have a source?
      - kota2 5y ago
        Sure, there is many: https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/interactive/2021/nso-spyware-pegasus-cellphones/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/interactive/20... "The Israeli Defense Ministry must approve any license to a government that wants to buy it, according to previous NSO statements."
3327 5y ago
The source may be questionable, but very likely it is the TIP of the iceberg...

emacsen 5y ago

As others have mentioned, the source you're citing is at best highly questionable. The amount of leaps the article makes is just out of this world, mostly that this Israeli company has Israelis involved, and that Israelis who have experience with mathematics and computer work also serve their mandatory military service in an intelligence unit of the military rather than as foot soldiers and that an Israeli company has Israeli investors. Israel is a tiny country the size of New Jersey, the fact that there will be overlap of people and connections between them is always the case- there's nothing nefarious about it. Anyway, looking at the author's twitter gives one a good look into what this looks like if taken outside the context of Israel: https://twitter.com/_whitneywebb?lang=en https://twitter.com/_whitneywebb?lang=en She's an anti-vaxxer talking about how the "ruling class" of using COVID to gain control over the population, about hidden FBI assets, and a ton about how the anti-Defmation League, a group that collects data on antisemitism is really a massive spy network. If it weren't so scary that people believe in it, it might be funny. There's no reason to put any more credence in her

noduerme 5y ago
The really scary part is that Q nuts like this are now running the Republican party, and they have no love for Israel. The second most egregious mistake Netanyahu made, after bowing to the settlers, was staking Israel's future on an alliance with the American right. Only the four people at Commentary Magazine believe there's still a non-crazy conservative movement in the US who wouldn't turn on Israel in a heartbeat... although they have a point that the progressives already have done so. The penning of this article really closes the circle of right/left conspiracy theory. If there's one thing all conspiracy theorists can agree on, it's the Jews. I think that's what you're seeing that's disturbing.
- pasabagi 5y ago
  Mmm, I think at the end of the day, Israel is probably the only reliable strategic partner in a resource-rich region full of basketcases. At worst, they'll have to tone it down a bit. If the US ceases to back them, they can always find a new backer.

toofy 5y ago

I understand how messy the context surrounding this next point is but it’s worth considering. From what Ive been seeing over the past couple weeks, the article is probably correct in that pegasus is just the beginning of what we’re going to find out regarding how deep the rabbit hole goes with israeli malware firms, however mint press has a very long history of what may be questionable funding and there have been quite a lot of organizations who have done some pretty well researched investigating that implicates mint press in some pretty nasty propaganda. Again, I understand how complicated and messy this kind of thing can be, but if you at all value accuracy in your analysis, it would absolutely be worth looking at some of their history regarding incredibly questionable funding and very strange propaganda for certain regimes.