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This might be the case, I don't necessarily dispute it. But with this sort of thing always keep in mind that the US (and other Western countries) tend to be mor

This might be the case, I don't necessarily dispute it. But with this sort of thing always keep in mind that the US (and other Western countries) tend to be more compliant with reporting actual facts than say.... China (who somehow is ranked 107 in the world for covid-19 cases, despite their huge population).

gogopuppygogo 5y ago
Through democide Communism has killed more people than any other event/war/form of government in human history. They have murdered tens of millions through starvation. Why is it surprising that they would lie about Covid deaths?
- hereforphone 5y ago
  Not arguing your point but I think a fair amount of that likely inaccuracy comes from lack of infrastructure / a large amount of rural communities. I'd guess there's some intention there (for misreporting) but I doubt that's the entirety of the issue
  - beervirus 5y ago
    China gets zero benefit of any doubt.
- rcstank 5y ago
  Why is the truth being downvoted?
- __MatrixMan__ 5y ago
  Communist leaders starve millions of their own people, and capitalist leaders starve millions of people in countries that they exploit, but I don't think that the overall death count is especially off balance. For instance: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/4/1/churchills-policies-to-blame-for-1943-bengal-famine-study https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/4/1/churchills-policies-...
Leary 5y ago
Nice copium. Who should I trust, my family and friends in China who never heard of anyone getting COVID? or the western press who can't cope with their own failure?
- hereforphone 5y ago
  Or the Chinese press who never reports anyone getting covid
- kortilla 5y ago
  Why would you hear of people getting covid if the government is suppressing it? They would have just heard of people getting the flu or having allergies.
  - trasz 5y ago
    But of course, a conspiracy theory involving hundreds of thousands doctors makes perfect sense, right? :-D
    - kortilla 5y ago
      They don’t need to be involved. Just blocked from access to simple testing.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
rsynnott 5y ago
> China (who somehow is ranked 107 in the world for covid-19 cases, despite their huge population). I’m always a little surprised that people are so quick to jump to conspiracy here. China is an authoritarian country with recent prior experience of dealing with epidemics, which took extremely aggressive measures against covid, some of which would not fly in a democratic country. You’d _expect_ it to have a low rate. Would you also assume Australia’s lying about this? Up until a month ago it followed a pretty similar pattern to China, based on somewhat less aggressive tactics.
- hereforphone 5y ago
  You might be right, I don't argue against your theory. Do you believe China is motivated to accurately keep and report numbers on cases and deaths?
  - rsynnott 5y ago
    About as much as any other country; that is, quite a bit, because there’s little obvious gain from downplaying it, and if it came out that they were downplaying it that could cause internal anxiety and strife. Like, no-one is handing out large cash prizes for “least covid-y country”; there just aren’t great incentives to lie. And again, China has taken extremely aggressive, and very disruptive and expensive, measures on covid where it has shown up, some of which people wouldn’t put up with in democratic countries. It also has a respectable though not world-beating vaccination rate (a little higher than the US and the EU average), and encountered Delta pretty late (in the last week or so). You’d expect good performance based on this. That said, it may not last; it does look like the Delta cat is now out of the bag, and experience elsewhere has been that suppression measures that are good enough for Alpha aren’t good enough for Delta (see Australia). I wouldn’t in general trust China’s government much, but the incentives to lie here just don’t seem like they’re there, and their approach to managing covid seems like it should work, on paper.
    - raxxorrax 5y ago
      > [...] there’s little obvious gain from downplaying it Of course there is. It is to display competency for domestic audiences. A lot of autocracies didn't have a problem with COVID officially. I agree that it is a bad measurement though.

gogopuppygogo 5y ago

Through democide Communism has killed more people than any other event/war/form of government in human history. They have murdered tens of millions through starvation. Why is it surprising that they would lie about Covid deaths?

hereforphone 5y ago
Not arguing your point but I think a fair amount of that likely inaccuracy comes from lack of infrastructure / a large amount of rural communities. I'd guess there's some intention there (for misreporting) but I doubt that's the entirety of the issue
- beervirus 5y ago
  China gets zero benefit of any doubt.
rcstank 5y ago
Why is the truth being downvoted?
__MatrixMan__ 5y ago
Communist leaders starve millions of their own people, and capitalist leaders starve millions of people in countries that they exploit, but I don't think that the overall death count is especially off balance. For instance: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/4/1/churchills-policies-to-blame-for-1943-bengal-famine-study https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/4/1/churchills-policies-...

Leary 5y ago

Nice copium. Who should I trust, my family and friends in China who never heard of anyone getting COVID? or the western press who can't cope with their own failure?

hereforphone 5y ago
Or the Chinese press who never reports anyone getting covid
kortilla 5y ago
Why would you hear of people getting covid if the government is suppressing it? They would have just heard of people getting the flu or having allergies.
- trasz 5y ago
  But of course, a conspiracy theory involving hundreds of thousands doctors makes perfect sense, right? :-D
  - kortilla 5y ago
    They don’t need to be involved. Just blocked from access to simple testing.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

rsynnott 5y ago

> China (who somehow is ranked 107 in the world for covid-19 cases, despite their huge population). I’m always a little surprised that people are so quick to jump to conspiracy here. China is an authoritarian country with recent prior experience of dealing with epidemics, which took extremely aggressive measures against covid, some of which would not fly in a democratic country. You’d _expect_ it to have a low rate. Would you also assume Australia’s lying about this? Up until a month ago it followed a pretty similar pattern to China, based on somewhat less aggressive tactics.

hereforphone 5y ago
You might be right, I don't argue against your theory. Do you believe China is motivated to accurately keep and report numbers on cases and deaths?
- rsynnott 5y ago
  About as much as any other country; that is, quite a bit, because there’s little obvious gain from downplaying it, and if it came out that they were downplaying it that could cause internal anxiety and strife. Like, no-one is handing out large cash prizes for “least covid-y country”; there just aren’t great incentives to lie. And again, China has taken extremely aggressive, and very disruptive and expensive, measures on covid where it has shown up, some of which people wouldn’t put up with in democratic countries. It also has a respectable though not world-beating vaccination rate (a little higher than the US and the EU average), and encountered Delta pretty late (in the last week or so). You’d expect good performance based on this. That said, it may not last; it does look like the Delta cat is now out of the bag, and experience elsewhere has been that suppression measures that are good enough for Alpha aren’t good enough for Delta (see Australia). I wouldn’t in general trust China’s government much, but the incentives to lie here just don’t seem like they’re there, and their approach to managing covid seems like it should work, on paper.
  - raxxorrax 5y ago
    > [...] there’s little obvious gain from downplaying it Of course there is. It is to display competency for domestic audiences. A lot of autocracies didn't have a problem with COVID officially. I agree that it is a bad measurement though.