6 ms·

Might also be an attitude problem on your side. If you're serious about getting a job, consider coaching. This "nobody is hiring, everything sucks, and I'm the

Might also be an attitude problem on your side. If you're serious about getting a job, consider coaching. This "nobody is hiring, everything sucks, and I'm the victim here" narrative isn't really helping you. Also, bringing up stuff like "lies about the cough" (which I assume is OP talking about COVID) absolutely undermines your credibility as an individual capable of critical thinking, which is necessary for software engineering.

umanwizard 5y ago
It’s true though, the media has massively distorted the truth about covid over and over since the beginning. For the most recent egregious example, see this exchange: https://mobile.twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1421229518749044739 https://mobile.twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/142122951874...
- peakaboo 5y ago
  People started noticing during covid but it's been going on for a very long time. I think it's awesome to see so many people realize this now though. We need that to happen.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- BossingAround 5y ago
  OP's statement leads straight to "they're out to get me," which is absolutely not helpful, and it's absolutely an indicator of a difficult hire. If I'm interviewing someone and the person is demonstrating a victim narrative, that is a huge red flag. Similarly, the inability to see shades of gray (e.g. "using MySQL is always utterly stupid, you should never use it in favor of Postgres") which OP demonstrates with their COVID statements, makes a person virtually non-employable in my book.
  - fallenspec 5y ago
    > OP's statement leads straight to "they're out to get me," which is absolutely not helpful, and it's absolutely an indicator of a difficult hire. Not at all. If you've been out of work for a year and seeing your savings (if you have any) dwindle and vent on what is an internet comment sections, doesn't indicate how you are in person at all. > If I'm interviewing someone and the person is demonstrating a victim narrative, that is a huge red flag. You are ignoring the present situation entirely. Governments have put everyone's life on hold for well over a year now (we are in month 17). Statements from authorities have been contradictory, non-sensical, they have lied in some cases and some have broken their own lockdown rules (e.g. in the UK Matt Hancock which was in charge of public health IIRC was exposed as having an affair during COVID, which BTW was illegal under the lockdown rules). So many people can see it for what it is. One rule for them and one rule for the plebs. > Similarly, the inability to see shades of gray (e.g. "using MySQL is always utterly stupid, you should never use it in favor of Postgres") which OP demonstrates with their COVID statements, makes a person virtually non-employable in my book You are reading far too much into comments around COVID due to your personal bias (which btw is obvious here). Because you disagree on a particular issue doesn't not indicate someone's thinking in a different field of expertise. e.g. there are many great scientists that believe very deeply in Religion. Which as a non-believer I would think would be at odds with one another. I have personally found it very difficult to find a job during COVID as well. I am almost 40 now and it worries me that I might experience the same in the future.
    - heurisko 5y ago
      In addition to Matt Hancock, there was also the case of exemptions from quarantine for UEFA football VIPs. [1] I think it's right the UK is returning to personal responsibility, especially as many of the rules haven't seemed to be science-based e.g. you must wear a mask entering a pub, but you are allowed to remove the mask while eating seated. It's health-theatre, rather than virus prevention. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/jun/18/vips-to-be-let-into-england-without-quarantine-to-keep-euros-final-at-wembley https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/jun/18/vips-to-be-...
- loopz 5y ago
  After some searching I found both old recommendations, and new ones about this explicitly [0]. The problem here is that nobody knows for sure, and someone must decide based on precautions and ongoing research. It is expected that new knowledge will make old information obsolete. An ongoing situation will also change during its course. Media just reflects this and there's no expectations of perfection. It's on what basis opinions are formed that truly matter. Anyone can make thousands of bets and congratulate themselves on 50% of them. [0] https://news.yahoo.com/cdc-says-fully-vaccinated-people-201508057.html https://news.yahoo.com/cdc-says-fully-vaccinated-people-2015...
TheAdamAndChe 5y ago
You've got cause and effect flipped here. It's not the bitterness that causes one to be not hired, its not being hired that causes bitterness. I experienced the same when trying to get in the field. The narrative at the time was that there was a labor shortage, and they were trying to push for more H1B visa holders. Yet there were very very few entry level positions, nobody was training, and the company that hired me paid horribly($12/hr) and didn't teach me anything. Keep in mind, I had recently graduated from university in the field. For decades, employers had far more leverage than employees. Now that that's eroded a bit, everyone is panicking. But this is exactly what is needed to employers to actually train and care about their workers.
- the-dude 5y ago
  > The narrative at the time was that there was a labor shortage Not unique to the particular time or place : Dutch employers are complaining about a lack of technical workers for decades, think welders / metal workers / machine operators etc. Except they pay sh*t. Somehow the statement about the lack of workers gets printed in the media everytime. Now we have the 'free transfer of people' in the EU. The EU is not there for you, but for the employers ( just like HR ).
- nate_meurer 5y ago
  > It's not the bitterness that causes one to be not hired, its not being hired that causes bitterness. That's a pretty absolutist statement. Is it not possible that both are sometimes present, and lead to a downward spiral of poor attitude and unemployablility?
- fallenspec 5y ago
  When I got out of university I was doing a web dev job that paid me less than a full time super market job in the UK. However after a year of working there I quickly moved on and got a big pay rise in doing so.
  - jason0597 5y ago
    I think this is something that every university graduate needs to understand so as to not be bitter. Your first years of your career will be shit, there is just no beating around the bush around this fact. You will be treated like a kid, you will be paid like shit (borderline minimum wage a lot of the times), and you will have to work ridiculous amounts to be seen on the same level as other people in the field. Once you break the 1-2 year experience mark then you can begin to expect entry level benefits for entry level positions. After you break the 5 year experience mark, then really the world is your oyster. 10 years or more and you can demand blank checks.
op00to 5y ago
This guy wouldn’t make it past a first phone screen with that attitude thank goodness.
- kikiakaki 5y ago
  Yeah, because we all know that people tend to behave the same online when commenting anonymously and during a phone interview. If that's what you think, I think it's you who should spend some time polishing those interviewing skills.
jokethrowaway 5y ago
Sure tech companies generally are generally on your political side and not on his but he's most likely not getting hired because of ageism and because people don't really need people with tons of experience. A kid with some basic knowledge who will comply to whatever bs is being told is good enough. Plus they can easily convince him to care about the company, do overtime, etc. Good luck trying that crap with a 50yo.
matwood 5y ago
> Might also be an attitude problem on your side. I don't know about the OP, but I think sometimes people forget that getting hired is only part skill list match. The other part is likability. I've worked with enough smart assholes to never want to do that again if I can avoid it. I also frequently reflect to make sure I'm not being an asshole.
- TheAdamAndChe 5y ago
  Being able to be picky about employees is the opposite of a labor shortage.
m0llusk 5y ago
This sounds like a complete misunderstanding of the situation. In a thread about employers having trouble with hiring someone posted their honest frustrations as a potential employee looking for work. It is extremely unlikely that any cover letter, resume, or job interview is in any way similar because that context is completely different. Just to pick one common idea among recruiters, it often takes about a month of job seeking per year of experience to get a position that is a solid match. That means that the people posting here with decades of experience can expect years of leetcode interviews before getting hired. Recruiters seem like a better source of information than currently employed and in demand coders.
- cactus2093 5y ago
  These aren’t honest frustrations, lol, this person basically called covid a hoax and said all the official labor numbers are made up. And idk what recruiters say this about experience but that’s not even a claim that could be substantiated. What even is a “solid match”? Sure, if you have crazy specific requirements to be willing to take a job it will take you longer to search. That applies regardless of age. Maybe on average older candidates tend to me more rigid in their expectations and are less open to working with new industries or programming languages or something, but that’s their choice.
MeinBlutIstBlau 5y ago
The media downplayed covid until some places started closing. Then they kicked it into full on "zombie virus everyone is gonna die" mode real quick. On top of that, they (meaning social media as well) tried to circumvent the CDC numerous times by flagging things they've said because the media doesn't want COVID to die now that Trump is out of office. Trump was a damn goldmine and they're trying to force COVID to be another one.
beerandt 5y ago
>absolutely undermines your credibility as an individual capable of critical thinking Nothing says "critical thinking" like believing everything you're told by government and msm.
- SonOfKyuss 5y ago
  It’s more about believing unfounded conspiracy theories over mountains of evidence regardless of the source.
  - beerandt 5y ago
    Not all lies are conspiracy theories. And not all conspiracy theories are lies. It wasn't too long ago that mentioning a lab leak got you the boot.
MichaelMoser123 5y ago
I don't know. I am fifty one years old, last year I was sent packing. I found that it is increasingly more difficult for me to find a new job as a programmer, as the years go by. I am very grateful that I found a job, eventually. Dear Calltrack, don't get too upset by the reactions in this thread, some people here are, well, not very compassionate, to say the least.
- fishmaster 5y ago
  It's not about 'compassion', it's about denying the Covid pandemic being real and calling it 'the cough'.
ajb 5y ago
Would you rather , on this site, people post what they honestly think, or what they would say in a job interview situation? Because if the latter, you might be better off not assuming that the OP is dumb enough to let out their unvarnished thoughts in an interview.
- nate_meurer 5y ago
  > you might be better off not assuming that the OP is dumb enough to let out their unvarnished thoughts in an interview. After a glance at Calltrak's recent comment history, I think that might actually be an ok assumption.
crispyambulance 5y ago
The guy is frustrated and people say things like that when they're frustrated, it's understandable, though he certainly isn't helping himself by expressing such thoughts. The "lies" he's talking about, I think, are a side-effect of the dichotomy of having an investor class that is doing better than ever and a working class that's in a downward spiral. Sadly, economic performance is measured strictly for the benefit of the investor class. So yeah, when someone who's involuntarily unemployed sees booming market numbers and talking heads on TV are calling out an economy that's "bounced back", it looks like a lie (and honestly I believe it is a kind of lie too).

umanwizard 5y ago

It’s true though, the media has massively distorted the truth about covid over and over since the beginning. For the most recent egregious example, see this exchange: https://mobile.twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1421229518749044739 https://mobile.twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/142122951874...

peakaboo 5y ago
People started noticing during covid but it's been going on for a very long time. I think it's awesome to see so many people realize this now though. We need that to happen.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
BossingAround 5y ago
OP's statement leads straight to "they're out to get me," which is absolutely not helpful, and it's absolutely an indicator of a difficult hire. If I'm interviewing someone and the person is demonstrating a victim narrative, that is a huge red flag. Similarly, the inability to see shades of gray (e.g. "using MySQL is always utterly stupid, you should never use it in favor of Postgres") which OP demonstrates with their COVID statements, makes a person virtually non-employable in my book.
- fallenspec 5y ago
  > OP's statement leads straight to "they're out to get me," which is absolutely not helpful, and it's absolutely an indicator of a difficult hire. Not at all. If you've been out of work for a year and seeing your savings (if you have any) dwindle and vent on what is an internet comment sections, doesn't indicate how you are in person at all. > If I'm interviewing someone and the person is demonstrating a victim narrative, that is a huge red flag. You are ignoring the present situation entirely. Governments have put everyone's life on hold for well over a year now (we are in month 17). Statements from authorities have been contradictory, non-sensical, they have lied in some cases and some have broken their own lockdown rules (e.g. in the UK Matt Hancock which was in charge of public health IIRC was exposed as having an affair during COVID, which BTW was illegal under the lockdown rules). So many people can see it for what it is. One rule for them and one rule for the plebs. > Similarly, the inability to see shades of gray (e.g. "using MySQL is always utterly stupid, you should never use it in favor of Postgres") which OP demonstrates with their COVID statements, makes a person virtually non-employable in my book You are reading far too much into comments around COVID due to your personal bias (which btw is obvious here). Because you disagree on a particular issue doesn't not indicate someone's thinking in a different field of expertise. e.g. there are many great scientists that believe very deeply in Religion. Which as a non-believer I would think would be at odds with one another. I have personally found it very difficult to find a job during COVID as well. I am almost 40 now and it worries me that I might experience the same in the future.
  - heurisko 5y ago
    In addition to Matt Hancock, there was also the case of exemptions from quarantine for UEFA football VIPs. [1] I think it's right the UK is returning to personal responsibility, especially as many of the rules haven't seemed to be science-based e.g. you must wear a mask entering a pub, but you are allowed to remove the mask while eating seated. It's health-theatre, rather than virus prevention. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/jun/18/vips-to-be-let-into-england-without-quarantine-to-keep-euros-final-at-wembley https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/jun/18/vips-to-be-...
loopz 5y ago
After some searching I found both old recommendations, and new ones about this explicitly [0]. The problem here is that nobody knows for sure, and someone must decide based on precautions and ongoing research. It is expected that new knowledge will make old information obsolete. An ongoing situation will also change during its course. Media just reflects this and there's no expectations of perfection. It's on what basis opinions are formed that truly matter. Anyone can make thousands of bets and congratulate themselves on 50% of them. [0] https://news.yahoo.com/cdc-says-fully-vaccinated-people-201508057.html https://news.yahoo.com/cdc-says-fully-vaccinated-people-2015...

TheAdamAndChe 5y ago

You've got cause and effect flipped here. It's not the bitterness that causes one to be not hired, its not being hired that causes bitterness. I experienced the same when trying to get in the field. The narrative at the time was that there was a labor shortage, and they were trying to push for more H1B visa holders. Yet there were very very few entry level positions, nobody was training, and the company that hired me paid horribly($12/hr) and didn't teach me anything. Keep in mind, I had recently graduated from university in the field. For decades, employers had far more leverage than employees. Now that that's eroded a bit, everyone is panicking. But this is exactly what is needed to employers to actually train and care about their workers.

the-dude 5y ago
> The narrative at the time was that there was a labor shortage Not unique to the particular time or place : Dutch employers are complaining about a lack of technical workers for decades, think welders / metal workers / machine operators etc. Except they pay sh*t. Somehow the statement about the lack of workers gets printed in the media everytime. Now we have the 'free transfer of people' in the EU. The EU is not there for you, but for the employers ( just like HR ).
nate_meurer 5y ago
> It's not the bitterness that causes one to be not hired, its not being hired that causes bitterness. That's a pretty absolutist statement. Is it not possible that both are sometimes present, and lead to a downward spiral of poor attitude and unemployablility?
fallenspec 5y ago
When I got out of university I was doing a web dev job that paid me less than a full time super market job in the UK. However after a year of working there I quickly moved on and got a big pay rise in doing so.
- jason0597 5y ago
  I think this is something that every university graduate needs to understand so as to not be bitter. Your first years of your career will be shit, there is just no beating around the bush around this fact. You will be treated like a kid, you will be paid like shit (borderline minimum wage a lot of the times), and you will have to work ridiculous amounts to be seen on the same level as other people in the field. Once you break the 1-2 year experience mark then you can begin to expect entry level benefits for entry level positions. After you break the 5 year experience mark, then really the world is your oyster. 10 years or more and you can demand blank checks.

op00to 5y ago

This guy wouldn’t make it past a first phone screen with that attitude thank goodness.

kikiakaki 5y ago
Yeah, because we all know that people tend to behave the same online when commenting anonymously and during a phone interview. If that's what you think, I think it's you who should spend some time polishing those interviewing skills.

jokethrowaway 5y ago

Sure tech companies generally are generally on your political side and not on his but he's most likely not getting hired because of ageism and because people don't really need people with tons of experience. A kid with some basic knowledge who will comply to whatever bs is being told is good enough. Plus they can easily convince him to care about the company, do overtime, etc. Good luck trying that crap with a 50yo.

matwood 5y ago

> Might also be an attitude problem on your side. I don't know about the OP, but I think sometimes people forget that getting hired is only part skill list match. The other part is likability. I've worked with enough smart assholes to never want to do that again if I can avoid it. I also frequently reflect to make sure I'm not being an asshole.

TheAdamAndChe 5y ago
Being able to be picky about employees is the opposite of a labor shortage.

m0llusk 5y ago

This sounds like a complete misunderstanding of the situation. In a thread about employers having trouble with hiring someone posted their honest frustrations as a potential employee looking for work. It is extremely unlikely that any cover letter, resume, or job interview is in any way similar because that context is completely different. Just to pick one common idea among recruiters, it often takes about a month of job seeking per year of experience to get a position that is a solid match. That means that the people posting here with decades of experience can expect years of leetcode interviews before getting hired. Recruiters seem like a better source of information than currently employed and in demand coders.

cactus2093 5y ago
These aren’t honest frustrations, lol, this person basically called covid a hoax and said all the official labor numbers are made up. And idk what recruiters say this about experience but that’s not even a claim that could be substantiated. What even is a “solid match”? Sure, if you have crazy specific requirements to be willing to take a job it will take you longer to search. That applies regardless of age. Maybe on average older candidates tend to me more rigid in their expectations and are less open to working with new industries or programming languages or something, but that’s their choice.

MeinBlutIstBlau 5y ago

The media downplayed covid until some places started closing. Then they kicked it into full on "zombie virus everyone is gonna die" mode real quick. On top of that, they (meaning social media as well) tried to circumvent the CDC numerous times by flagging things they've said because the media doesn't want COVID to die now that Trump is out of office. Trump was a damn goldmine and they're trying to force COVID to be another one.

beerandt 5y ago

>absolutely undermines your credibility as an individual capable of critical thinking Nothing says "critical thinking" like believing everything you're told by government and msm.

SonOfKyuss 5y ago
It’s more about believing unfounded conspiracy theories over mountains of evidence regardless of the source.
- beerandt 5y ago
  Not all lies are conspiracy theories. And not all conspiracy theories are lies. It wasn't too long ago that mentioning a lab leak got you the boot.

MichaelMoser123 5y ago

I don't know. I am fifty one years old, last year I was sent packing. I found that it is increasingly more difficult for me to find a new job as a programmer, as the years go by. I am very grateful that I found a job, eventually. Dear Calltrack, don't get too upset by the reactions in this thread, some people here are, well, not very compassionate, to say the least.

fishmaster 5y ago
It's not about 'compassion', it's about denying the Covid pandemic being real and calling it 'the cough'.

ajb 5y ago

Would you rather , on this site, people post what they honestly think, or what they would say in a job interview situation? Because if the latter, you might be better off not assuming that the OP is dumb enough to let out their unvarnished thoughts in an interview.

nate_meurer 5y ago
> you might be better off not assuming that the OP is dumb enough to let out their unvarnished thoughts in an interview. After a glance at Calltrak's recent comment history, I think that might actually be an ok assumption.

crispyambulance 5y ago

The guy is frustrated and people say things like that when they're frustrated, it's understandable, though he certainly isn't helping himself by expressing such thoughts. The "lies" he's talking about, I think, are a side-effect of the dichotomy of having an investor class that is doing better than ever and a working class that's in a downward spiral. Sadly, economic performance is measured strictly for the benefit of the investor class. So yeah, when someone who's involuntarily unemployed sees booming market numbers and talking heads on TV are calling out an economy that's "bounced back", it looks like a lie (and honestly I believe it is a kind of lie too).