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I am an unemployed programmer. I am 50 years old. I have 15 years of C#, 15 years of sql server, two years of golang, two years of node.js, vue.js, svelte, cs

I am an unemployed programmer. I am 50 years old. I have 15 years of C#, 15 years of sql server, two years of golang, two years of node.js, vue.js, svelte, css, html, postgress, rabbitmq, etc etc etc.... My skills list is about 10 times this short list I just threw up. They tell me there is a skills and labor shortage in tech. That's complete bullshit I am UNEMPLOYED for a year. I don't believe one dam word the government or the media says anymore. Not one word. Not about the cough. Not about the labor shortage. They will tell you the economy is booming meanwhile they are boarding up New York City and there is homeless everywhere. It's the same thing right across america. We are being lied to at an awesome level.

the_mitsuhiko 5y ago
As a programmer if you’re not working for a year it’s safe to say you’re not actively looking and thus by definition excluded from unemployment statistics.
hattmall 5y ago
Are you looking for remote work? Where do you live? In the south, everywhere is hiring.
arcturus17 5y ago
Have you tried remote-only positions? I’d assume they tend to care less about age, if that’s the problem. I employ freelancers and pay competitive fees by European standards. I would hire someone with your experience without thinking too much about it (provided you had a modicum of people skills) since I only care about people being courteous and getting the job done, and not about “culture”…
- ChrisMarshallNY 5y ago
  As noted elsewhere, it seems Europe may be a better place for older folks. I know that some nations have some fairly strict laws about discrimination. In the US, we have the same laws. It's flat-out illegal to discriminate by age, as it is by race, religion, gender, pregnancy, marital status, etc. Out of that list, if a company tries anything other than age discrimination, they are pilloried and investigated. However, in the IT industry, age discrimination is actively encouraged. Companies write job ads that basically say "Bros only." The story I hear, is that older folks are "just waiting for retirement, and won't be loyal." That's rich, in an industry that has been completely formed around the idea that engineers will stay at a company for no more than two years. In my case, I had my retirement set, years ago, and would have been willing to work for half of what a lot of younger folks would demand, if the work was motivating, and the work environment was good. I have an enormous portfolio of exemplary work. My skills are "five minutes old." I'm not some old duffer, sitting on COBOL skills (which, I understand, would actually have made me more attractive). It's been my experience that no one ever bothers to look at the portfolio. They've already made up their mind, and the only reason they are talking to me, is to tick off an EEOC checkbox.
  - BlissWaves 5y ago
    I don't see any evidence Europe being better for older folks. On top of that salaries are really really low in Europe. Unless you are in the US and are going to graduate university at 22-23 best to forget about a career in STEM. Not worth the effort and time. Milk has a longer expiry date than a STEM worker who's perceived over the hill late-twenties or early thirties.
    - saiya-jin 5y ago
      Many things in those sentences are plainly not true. In Europe, you can get very rich (by say western european standards) if you do 1-man consulting well. I mean in top 0.01% salary bracket for some countries while having fairly standard current skillset (soft and hard skills). Switzerland and Luxembourg have very high permanent salaries - not SV levels, but definitely fine ones and affording a great lifestyle. Quality of life, say in Switzerland, (and I know this can be a hot topic that depends on personal preferences) is way better than basically anything US can offer for similar wealth bracket. That's my personal view, based on my personal opinions, evaluations and wish to give my kids the best and healthiest environment to grow up in so obviously not universally true. Older dudes are definitely very supported here, but this is specific per sector/company. Average age of my coworkers (banking en Suisse) is around 45-50, all devs, admins, devops. We wanted to hire one 55 year old guy for dev position last week, we made him (a generous) offer already but he chose a different position. He didn't have the skillset list much bigger than what is flying around by OP (maybe some crypto stuff but we don't do it yet). What you describe are mostly startups full of folks who want to get rich quickly, mostly fail, have attention span shorter than tick of second hand on my watch. You can find those everywhere. But that's a relatively small part of the market and at least here definitely not the best paying one.
      - BlissWaves 5y ago
        Luxemburg junior salary average is 36K, take home around 2300. 1300 for rent and food you are left with 1000 euros. Germany is where startups valued at $25bn and $45bn (Zalando and Klarna) are paying less than $100k for 10 YoE with >40% income tax. Please let's not discuss already obvious things though I agree that Switzerland is better in terms of salary and taxes. As per your own company you are using anecdotal evidence. Ageism in tech is very well-known and pretending it does not exist is not going to fix antyhing.
cvhashim 5y ago
> They will tell you the economy is booming meanwhile they are boarding up New York City > and there is homeless everywhere Both of these can be true. The economy is great for all the people at the top rungs of society while the rest may not be seeing any of those prosperities.
phenkdo 5y ago
It stretches credulity that you have that many skills and still unemployed. Employers are hiring just about anyone in tech these days. Where are you located? You can kvetch about the media all you want, but the job market is the best it has ever been, and unlikely to get any better. Sorry to be harsh here, but if you can't find a job in this market, you ought to reconsider your professional choices.
- Roritharr 5y ago
  My father-in-law is in a similar position, just ten years older than parent. He always gets rejections based on "lack of cultural fit". Ageism is real in tech.
- throw_m239339 5y ago
  > but if you can't find a job in this market, you ought to reconsider your professional choices. There is enough literature out there about the racist, sexist or ageist hiring practices in the tech sector that you might as well rethink your comment here. How old are you?
- goodpoint 5y ago
  In may English-speaking countries ageism is the norm. You don't get any offer after 45 unless you are famous.
  - jason0597 5y ago
    Only in tech
- thedream 5y ago
  > It stretches credulity that you [...] vs > You can kvetch about the media all you want [...] Why engage with a primary source when you can have your worldview spoonfed to you by a thinly-veiled Pharma ad masquerading as news? Yeah, let's keep kvetching.
- kikiakaki 5y ago
  "Hey, it's so awesome for me!!! You must be a liar, because for me it's all cool." Is this all your argument or did you also want to say something meaningful?
umanwizard 5y ago
For what it’s worth: I live in NYC. It is not boarded up.
- varjag 5y ago
  I'm sure the GP reserves his charming side for the interviews.
- dbattaglia 5y ago
  I was puzzled by this as well. There was of course instances of this during the George Floyd protests (over a year ago), and a bit right around the election, but that was just companies protecting their property from some of the rowdier protesters.
- forz877 5y ago
  That's the narrative a lot of these people living in the flyover states are fed on repeat 24/7. You'd think NYC , SF, LA were third world countries according to them. You can tell right from his comment why he likely doesn't have a job.
  - dbattaglia 5y ago
    My wife and I have both been hearing this narrative from coworkers outside of where we live (in NYC), asking if we're living in a ghost town or warzone. It feels strange. By the way I think the term "flyover state" is probably a bit offensive to folks that happen to live outside of coastal cities.
    - forz877 5y ago
      It's bizarre but if you see the content they are watching and are fed it begins to make sense. They're never exposed to these places so they never have an opportunity to think for themselves. Often times when I've gone to more rural/southern areas it's amazing how kind the people are - I think on both sides people just forget that there are just regular folk everywhere. The politics attempts to dehumanize.
    - 5y ago
BlissWaves 5y ago
Yup, on top of it ageism in tech can appear as early as late twenties!
- beebeepka 5y ago
  That's nuts but I can believe it. My own experience is that if I am being interviewed by a 20 something, I am not getting the job no matter what. Not a single exception in a decade now lol. It's real
  - 100-xyz 5y ago
    Strongly agree. Has been my experience as well.
BossingAround 5y ago
Might also be an attitude problem on your side. If you're serious about getting a job, consider coaching. This "nobody is hiring, everything sucks, and I'm the victim here" narrative isn't really helping you. Also, bringing up stuff like "lies about the cough" (which I assume is OP talking about COVID) absolutely undermines your credibility as an individual capable of critical thinking, which is necessary for software engineering.
- umanwizard 5y ago
  It’s true though, the media has massively distorted the truth about covid over and over since the beginning. For the most recent egregious example, see this exchange: https://mobile.twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1421229518749044739 https://mobile.twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/142122951874...
  - peakaboo 5y ago
    People started noticing during covid but it's been going on for a very long time. I think it's awesome to see so many people realize this now though. We need that to happen.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - BossingAround 5y ago
    OP's statement leads straight to "they're out to get me," which is absolutely not helpful, and it's absolutely an indicator of a difficult hire. If I'm interviewing someone and the person is demonstrating a victim narrative, that is a huge red flag. Similarly, the inability to see shades of gray (e.g. "using MySQL is always utterly stupid, you should never use it in favor of Postgres") which OP demonstrates with their COVID statements, makes a person virtually non-employable in my book.
    - fallenspec 5y ago
      > OP's statement leads straight to "they're out to get me," which is absolutely not helpful, and it's absolutely an indicator of a difficult hire. Not at all. If you've been out of work for a year and seeing your savings (if you have any) dwindle and vent on what is an internet comment sections, doesn't indicate how you are in person at all. > If I'm interviewing someone and the person is demonstrating a victim narrative, that is a huge red flag. You are ignoring the present situation entirely. Governments have put everyone's life on hold for well over a year now (we are in month 17). Statements from authorities have been contradictory, non-sensical, they have lied in some cases and some have broken their own lockdown rules (e.g. in the UK Matt Hancock which was in charge of public health IIRC was exposed as having an affair during COVID, which BTW was illegal under the lockdown rules). So many people can see it for what it is. One rule for them and one rule for the plebs. > Similarly, the inability to see shades of gray (e.g. "using MySQL is always utterly stupid, you should never use it in favor of Postgres") which OP demonstrates with their COVID statements, makes a person virtually non-employable in my book You are reading far too much into comments around COVID due to your personal bias (which btw is obvious here). Because you disagree on a particular issue doesn't not indicate someone's thinking in a different field of expertise. e.g. there are many great scientists that believe very deeply in Religion. Which as a non-believer I would think would be at odds with one another. I have personally found it very difficult to find a job during COVID as well. I am almost 40 now and it worries me that I might experience the same in the future.
mgh2 5y ago
Can't you hide your age for remote jobs? At least initially, when interviewing (they are not allowed to ask)
- goodpoint 5y ago
  He probably gets the "no culture fit" euphemism after each video interview.
Waterluvian 5y ago
I know you’re not trying to interview right here and now, but listing tools doesn’t move the needle. That’s not what employability in tech is measured by. I’m trying to hire for a number of software positions and that’s a common issue I see in resumes. I don’t want to hear that you’re a wizard with a hammer. I want to know about the times you lead a team in building a house from start to finish.
- lucb1e 5y ago
  > I want to know about the times you lead a team in building a house from start to finish. What if that's not something I can do? If I'm really good at tech, am really good in terms of writing code fast, correct, and readable, but management just isn't for me? Would you not hire me for a software position, also not at a lower salary or with a junior label or something?
  - freeone3000 5y ago
    We're not interested in hiring "perpetual juniors". The increased oversight of junior employees is an investment in them becoming senior in a 2-3 year timeframe. The skills listed above are for independent action, follow-through, communication, and teamwork, in a tech lead position, which are more important than writing code. If you haven't acquired those skills by now, it's unlikely any amount of mentorship will teach them to you, so it's going to be a pass.
    - pcthrowaway 5y ago
      > The increased oversight of junior employees is an investment in them becoming senior in a 2-3 year timeframe. So in your mind, they go straight from junior to senior? I've been developing software for 8 years now, and still call myself intermediate. Senior is for people with incredibly deep knowledge of multiple technologies and how they work together, in my mind.
      - freeone3000 5y ago
        We don't have an intermediate role, the step after Software Development Expert II is Senior Software Development Expert. This is pretty consistent among peer companies. Your description of senior isn't inaccurate, but, after many years of schooling, personal development experience, and on-the-job training, it's expected that people will gain that level of expertise in at least one domain -- maybe not to the same degree you're expecting, but career progression does not necessarily stop at SSDE.
joeblau 5y ago
Just a side note. I’m actually working on building a remote team and when I went to your profile, the link in there was dead. How do people casually browsing your profile discover what you’ve worked on and learn more about you?
saiya-jin 5y ago
There must be something more to your story. Some slight mental issues, way too high expectation from work/salary/special requirements etc. A lot of folks think of themselves as perfectly fine, but on interviews they come as hard-to-work-with introverted weirdos. Applying for a very senior lead/managerial position. And so on. A year must mean tons of applications and at least some interviews. Do you have any idea/feedback from failed interviews on why they failed?
ostenning 5y ago
Exactly why I am sidestepping out of software into embedded and hardware development. You could never make a 6 week boot camp for EE.
ramphastidae 5y ago
No one gets a job because of how long they’ve been alive or how frustrated they are. I suggest changing your attitude and I’d also suggest avoiding rants about the government and media, as well as spreading misinformation about “the cough” and NYC during your job search.
- BlissWaves 5y ago
  This is actually part of the problem. Did you conveniently ignore that they mentioned years of experience in particular technologies?
  - ramphastidae 5y ago
    Absolutely. YOE != value or skill.
    - kikiakaki 5y ago
      You are pretty much wrong about that. And you seem to have a real attitude problem. Unless you can prove that the OP is bad at his job, the only thing that we can assume is that he is good at it, since he has been doing it for years.
peakaboo 5y ago
The media is shit. Its becoming worse and worse, to the point where nothing can be trusted.
asah 5y ago
FYI the contact info (URL) in your HN account is 404ing...
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
op00to 5y ago
No, they are not “boarding up New York City”, but conservative trolls do seem to be invading this post, maybe we should board the post up instead.
fallenspec 5y ago
I was unemployed for 9 months in the UK. I was a contractor/consultant and had to take a full time position. When Lockdowns started I was literally finishing a contract and was happy to have some time off. After month 7 of not having any work and eating into savings and constantly lockdowns meant I had to go full time. Interview process was frustrating to say the least. Lots of pre-screen "tests" which some were two to 3 hours of asking computer science style questions that are irrelevant for web development. It was a frustrating process that was exasperated by COVID.
deleted 5y ago
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lucb1e 5y ago
> I don't believe one dam word the government or the media says anymore. Not one word. Not about the cough. If you really mean this, if you really think the pandemic is all a big conspiracy created by your government... makes me genuinely curious how you come across in interviews. I don't think you're wrong about the labor shortage thing. Similar story here: quite a bit of trouble finding a job as a 25 year old tech person while you hear left and right that nobody can seem to find any employees anymore. But that one statistic is skewed, or perhaps that companies and employees aren't properly being matched, doesn't mean "the cough" (and what many people that contracted the virus describe as the worst week in their life) is all a big hoax.
- temphnaccount 5y ago
  I am curious as to how did you jump from not believing the government to pandemic being a conspiracy? Pandemic is real and governments have lied to their people, more so in last one and a half year - both of these statements can be true. Also you should not question someone's capability to come across in the interviews based on their venting on online anonymous platform. Humans can have vastly different emotions depending on the situation.
  - bloopernova 5y ago
    Over the past 18 months or so, since the COVID-19 pandemic has been foremost in our minds, a group of people have espoused certain opinions or viewpoints. Namely: The pandemic is a hoax It doesn't kill people Those that did die, died from other causes That they won't wear a mask That they won't get a vaccine That the vaccine modifies DNA The person who referred to the COVID-19 pandemic as "the cough" may or may not hold any or all of those views. But 18 months of hearing that group of people espouse those views leads many of us to learn that if they support one of the views above, they support them all. Again, that may or may not be correct or ethical. It's just our experience.
jen20 5y ago
> Not about the cough I\m going to go ahead and guess that this is an attitude problem, not a skill problem. Further - do you _really_ have 15 years of experience of C# and SQL Server, or (as is very common in that space) do you actually have one year of experience 15 times?
100-xyz 5y ago
We are looking for SW engineers in the USA. Can you drop me an email leisenming AT protonmail DOT com? Thanks and good luck.
cactus2093 5y ago
I agree with the other commenters, you sound completely detached from reality and I would never even make it far enough to evaluate your skills before declining to work with you. The best thing you can do is probably to get some therapy. Yes, there are some legitimate scandals and lies in the media and government. Most other people are able to take this in stride and still live happy, productive lives. Standards of living are higher now than they ever have been in history. Things aren’t all bad. If you shift your attitude and stop conveying that you think you are not getting what you deserve and everyone is out to get you, and become nicer and more humble, I think you’ll have much better luck.
- mynameishere 5y ago
  You armchair psychiatrists work fast! Why would he need a therapist when he's got you telling him he's a lunatic based upon his venting on the internet?
marcinzm 5y ago
We reject more senior candidates for soft skill issues than we do for technical issues. Most common one is them aggressively saying "why did you do it this way, you should have done it this way" during interviews without knowing any context. >boarding up New York City Not really, we're doing rather well over here. >there is homeless everywhere There have been homeless everywhere for decades, if you think this is new then you haven't been paying attention. edit: Also believing covid isn't real indicates that you have overall issues with rational understanding of complex topics or processing third party information. That underlying mental model tends to leak in interviews and is definitely a massive red flag.
127 5y ago
As a (potential) employer, I wouldn't really care about age. It's all about how much you make money for me. What your performance to cost ratio? People can be cats or dogs for all I care. Young have the advantage that they usually drastically undervalue themselves and thus provide an unbeatable proposition. They're usually more energetic, positive and optimistic, which is more pleasant to be around and thus makes the work environment more productive. In an ideal system: if employers fail to hire workforce that benefits their company more, they will fall behind the competition. There most definitely are preconceived notions about people on how they look, but that should be a competitive advantage to a company that can leverage it.
- notpachet 5y ago
  > Young have the advantage that they usually drastically undervalue themselves and thus provide an unbeatable proposition. They're usually more energetic, positive and optimistic, which is more pleasant to be around and thus makes the work environment more productive. This feels myopic. It cuts both ways. Young employees are often much more susceptible to conflating their personal identity with their work identity, which can lead to serious emotional and psychological issues down the road. Even if we're looking at it purely from an extract-value-from-employee angle, I don't want a team that's running purely on misplaced idealism and ramen cups, because that's not sustainable. So the counterpoint to your comment would be: older employees have the advantage of serving as an example to younger ones for how to better manage work/life balance, which yields a healthier team in aggregate. Only a Sith hires in absolutes. [edit: grammatical typo]
poisonborz 5y ago
If you do, stop including your birthdate on CV-s, and don't answer questions regarding your afe.
sativallday 5y ago
Only display the last 10 years of work history on your resume. Apply for Senior/Staff+ positions. Do not display your graduation date. Do not display age. Dye your hair or shave your head, etc. Get more hip eye glasses and just wear black t-shirts. Fake a more hip accent/voice during your interview.

the_mitsuhiko 5y ago

As a programmer if you’re not working for a year it’s safe to say you’re not actively looking and thus by definition excluded from unemployment statistics.

hattmall 5y ago

Are you looking for remote work? Where do you live? In the south, everywhere is hiring.

arcturus17 5y ago

Have you tried remote-only positions? I’d assume they tend to care less about age, if that’s the problem. I employ freelancers and pay competitive fees by European standards. I would hire someone with your experience without thinking too much about it (provided you had a modicum of people skills) since I only care about people being courteous and getting the job done, and not about “culture”…

ChrisMarshallNY 5y ago
As noted elsewhere, it seems Europe may be a better place for older folks. I know that some nations have some fairly strict laws about discrimination. In the US, we have the same laws. It's flat-out illegal to discriminate by age, as it is by race, religion, gender, pregnancy, marital status, etc. Out of that list, if a company tries anything other than age discrimination, they are pilloried and investigated. However, in the IT industry, age discrimination is actively encouraged. Companies write job ads that basically say "Bros only." The story I hear, is that older folks are "just waiting for retirement, and won't be loyal." That's rich, in an industry that has been completely formed around the idea that engineers will stay at a company for no more than two years. In my case, I had my retirement set, years ago, and would have been willing to work for half of what a lot of younger folks would demand, if the work was motivating, and the work environment was good. I have an enormous portfolio of exemplary work. My skills are "five minutes old." I'm not some old duffer, sitting on COBOL skills (which, I understand, would actually have made me more attractive). It's been my experience that no one ever bothers to look at the portfolio. They've already made up their mind, and the only reason they are talking to me, is to tick off an EEOC checkbox.
- BlissWaves 5y ago
  I don't see any evidence Europe being better for older folks. On top of that salaries are really really low in Europe. Unless you are in the US and are going to graduate university at 22-23 best to forget about a career in STEM. Not worth the effort and time. Milk has a longer expiry date than a STEM worker who's perceived over the hill late-twenties or early thirties.
  - saiya-jin 5y ago
    Many things in those sentences are plainly not true. In Europe, you can get very rich (by say western european standards) if you do 1-man consulting well. I mean in top 0.01% salary bracket for some countries while having fairly standard current skillset (soft and hard skills). Switzerland and Luxembourg have very high permanent salaries - not SV levels, but definitely fine ones and affording a great lifestyle. Quality of life, say in Switzerland, (and I know this can be a hot topic that depends on personal preferences) is way better than basically anything US can offer for similar wealth bracket. That's my personal view, based on my personal opinions, evaluations and wish to give my kids the best and healthiest environment to grow up in so obviously not universally true. Older dudes are definitely very supported here, but this is specific per sector/company. Average age of my coworkers (banking en Suisse) is around 45-50, all devs, admins, devops. We wanted to hire one 55 year old guy for dev position last week, we made him (a generous) offer already but he chose a different position. He didn't have the skillset list much bigger than what is flying around by OP (maybe some crypto stuff but we don't do it yet). What you describe are mostly startups full of folks who want to get rich quickly, mostly fail, have attention span shorter than tick of second hand on my watch. You can find those everywhere. But that's a relatively small part of the market and at least here definitely not the best paying one.
    - BlissWaves 5y ago
      Luxemburg junior salary average is 36K, take home around 2300. 1300 for rent and food you are left with 1000 euros. Germany is where startups valued at $25bn and $45bn (Zalando and Klarna) are paying less than $100k for 10 YoE with >40% income tax. Please let's not discuss already obvious things though I agree that Switzerland is better in terms of salary and taxes. As per your own company you are using anecdotal evidence. Ageism in tech is very well-known and pretending it does not exist is not going to fix antyhing.

cvhashim 5y ago

> They will tell you the economy is booming meanwhile they are boarding up New York City > and there is homeless everywhere Both of these can be true. The economy is great for all the people at the top rungs of society while the rest may not be seeing any of those prosperities.

phenkdo 5y ago

It stretches credulity that you have that many skills and still unemployed. Employers are hiring just about anyone in tech these days. Where are you located? You can kvetch about the media all you want, but the job market is the best it has ever been, and unlikely to get any better. Sorry to be harsh here, but if you can't find a job in this market, you ought to reconsider your professional choices.

Roritharr 5y ago
My father-in-law is in a similar position, just ten years older than parent. He always gets rejections based on "lack of cultural fit". Ageism is real in tech.
throw_m239339 5y ago
> but if you can't find a job in this market, you ought to reconsider your professional choices. There is enough literature out there about the racist, sexist or ageist hiring practices in the tech sector that you might as well rethink your comment here. How old are you?
goodpoint 5y ago
In may English-speaking countries ageism is the norm. You don't get any offer after 45 unless you are famous.
- jason0597 5y ago
  Only in tech
thedream 5y ago
> It stretches credulity that you [...] vs > You can kvetch about the media all you want [...] Why engage with a primary source when you can have your worldview spoonfed to you by a thinly-veiled Pharma ad masquerading as news? Yeah, let's keep kvetching.
kikiakaki 5y ago
"Hey, it's so awesome for me!!! You must be a liar, because for me it's all cool." Is this all your argument or did you also want to say something meaningful?

umanwizard 5y ago

For what it’s worth: I live in NYC. It is not boarded up.

varjag 5y ago
I'm sure the GP reserves his charming side for the interviews.
dbattaglia 5y ago
I was puzzled by this as well. There was of course instances of this during the George Floyd protests (over a year ago), and a bit right around the election, but that was just companies protecting their property from some of the rowdier protesters.
forz877 5y ago
That's the narrative a lot of these people living in the flyover states are fed on repeat 24/7. You'd think NYC , SF, LA were third world countries according to them. You can tell right from his comment why he likely doesn't have a job.
- dbattaglia 5y ago
  My wife and I have both been hearing this narrative from coworkers outside of where we live (in NYC), asking if we're living in a ghost town or warzone. It feels strange. By the way I think the term "flyover state" is probably a bit offensive to folks that happen to live outside of coastal cities.
  - forz877 5y ago
    It's bizarre but if you see the content they are watching and are fed it begins to make sense. They're never exposed to these places so they never have an opportunity to think for themselves. Often times when I've gone to more rural/southern areas it's amazing how kind the people are - I think on both sides people just forget that there are just regular folk everywhere. The politics attempts to dehumanize.
  - 5y ago

BlissWaves 5y ago

Yup, on top of it ageism in tech can appear as early as late twenties!

beebeepka 5y ago
That's nuts but I can believe it. My own experience is that if I am being interviewed by a 20 something, I am not getting the job no matter what. Not a single exception in a decade now lol. It's real
- 100-xyz 5y ago
  Strongly agree. Has been my experience as well.

BossingAround 5y ago

Might also be an attitude problem on your side. If you're serious about getting a job, consider coaching. This "nobody is hiring, everything sucks, and I'm the victim here" narrative isn't really helping you. Also, bringing up stuff like "lies about the cough" (which I assume is OP talking about COVID) absolutely undermines your credibility as an individual capable of critical thinking, which is necessary for software engineering.

umanwizard 5y ago
It’s true though, the media has massively distorted the truth about covid over and over since the beginning. For the most recent egregious example, see this exchange: https://mobile.twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1421229518749044739 https://mobile.twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/142122951874...
- peakaboo 5y ago
  People started noticing during covid but it's been going on for a very long time. I think it's awesome to see so many people realize this now though. We need that to happen.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- BossingAround 5y ago
  OP's statement leads straight to "they're out to get me," which is absolutely not helpful, and it's absolutely an indicator of a difficult hire. If I'm interviewing someone and the person is demonstrating a victim narrative, that is a huge red flag. Similarly, the inability to see shades of gray (e.g. "using MySQL is always utterly stupid, you should never use it in favor of Postgres") which OP demonstrates with their COVID statements, makes a person virtually non-employable in my book.
  - fallenspec 5y ago
    > OP's statement leads straight to "they're out to get me," which is absolutely not helpful, and it's absolutely an indicator of a difficult hire. Not at all. If you've been out of work for a year and seeing your savings (if you have any) dwindle and vent on what is an internet comment sections, doesn't indicate how you are in person at all. > If I'm interviewing someone and the person is demonstrating a victim narrative, that is a huge red flag. You are ignoring the present situation entirely. Governments have put everyone's life on hold for well over a year now (we are in month 17). Statements from authorities have been contradictory, non-sensical, they have lied in some cases and some have broken their own lockdown rules (e.g. in the UK Matt Hancock which was in charge of public health IIRC was exposed as having an affair during COVID, which BTW was illegal under the lockdown rules). So many people can see it for what it is. One rule for them and one rule for the plebs. > Similarly, the inability to see shades of gray (e.g. "using MySQL is always utterly stupid, you should never use it in favor of Postgres") which OP demonstrates with their COVID statements, makes a person virtually non-employable in my book You are reading far too much into comments around COVID due to your personal bias (which btw is obvious here). Because you disagree on a particular issue doesn't not indicate someone's thinking in a different field of expertise. e.g. there are many great scientists that believe very deeply in Religion. Which as a non-believer I would think would be at odds with one another. I have personally found it very difficult to find a job during COVID as well. I am almost 40 now and it worries me that I might experience the same in the future.

mgh2 5y ago

Can't you hide your age for remote jobs? At least initially, when interviewing (they are not allowed to ask)

goodpoint 5y ago
He probably gets the "no culture fit" euphemism after each video interview.

Waterluvian 5y ago

I know you’re not trying to interview right here and now, but listing tools doesn’t move the needle. That’s not what employability in tech is measured by. I’m trying to hire for a number of software positions and that’s a common issue I see in resumes. I don’t want to hear that you’re a wizard with a hammer. I want to know about the times you lead a team in building a house from start to finish.

lucb1e 5y ago
> I want to know about the times you lead a team in building a house from start to finish. What if that's not something I can do? If I'm really good at tech, am really good in terms of writing code fast, correct, and readable, but management just isn't for me? Would you not hire me for a software position, also not at a lower salary or with a junior label or something?
- freeone3000 5y ago
  We're not interested in hiring "perpetual juniors". The increased oversight of junior employees is an investment in them becoming senior in a 2-3 year timeframe. The skills listed above are for independent action, follow-through, communication, and teamwork, in a tech lead position, which are more important than writing code. If you haven't acquired those skills by now, it's unlikely any amount of mentorship will teach them to you, so it's going to be a pass.
  - pcthrowaway 5y ago
    > The increased oversight of junior employees is an investment in them becoming senior in a 2-3 year timeframe. So in your mind, they go straight from junior to senior? I've been developing software for 8 years now, and still call myself intermediate. Senior is for people with incredibly deep knowledge of multiple technologies and how they work together, in my mind.
    - freeone3000 5y ago
      We don't have an intermediate role, the step after Software Development Expert II is Senior Software Development Expert. This is pretty consistent among peer companies. Your description of senior isn't inaccurate, but, after many years of schooling, personal development experience, and on-the-job training, it's expected that people will gain that level of expertise in at least one domain -- maybe not to the same degree you're expecting, but career progression does not necessarily stop at SSDE.

joeblau 5y ago

Just a side note. I’m actually working on building a remote team and when I went to your profile, the link in there was dead. How do people casually browsing your profile discover what you’ve worked on and learn more about you?

saiya-jin 5y ago

There must be something more to your story. Some slight mental issues, way too high expectation from work/salary/special requirements etc. A lot of folks think of themselves as perfectly fine, but on interviews they come as hard-to-work-with introverted weirdos. Applying for a very senior lead/managerial position. And so on. A year must mean tons of applications and at least some interviews. Do you have any idea/feedback from failed interviews on why they failed?

ostenning 5y ago

Exactly why I am sidestepping out of software into embedded and hardware development. You could never make a 6 week boot camp for EE.

ramphastidae 5y ago

No one gets a job because of how long they’ve been alive or how frustrated they are. I suggest changing your attitude and I’d also suggest avoiding rants about the government and media, as well as spreading misinformation about “the cough” and NYC during your job search.

BlissWaves 5y ago
This is actually part of the problem. Did you conveniently ignore that they mentioned years of experience in particular technologies?
- ramphastidae 5y ago
  Absolutely. YOE != value or skill.
  - kikiakaki 5y ago
    You are pretty much wrong about that. And you seem to have a real attitude problem. Unless you can prove that the OP is bad at his job, the only thing that we can assume is that he is good at it, since he has been doing it for years.

peakaboo 5y ago

The media is shit. Its becoming worse and worse, to the point where nothing can be trusted.

asah 5y ago

FYI the contact info (URL) in your HN account is 404ing...

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op00to 5y ago

No, they are not “boarding up New York City”, but conservative trolls do seem to be invading this post, maybe we should board the post up instead.

fallenspec 5y ago

I was unemployed for 9 months in the UK. I was a contractor/consultant and had to take a full time position. When Lockdowns started I was literally finishing a contract and was happy to have some time off. After month 7 of not having any work and eating into savings and constantly lockdowns meant I had to go full time. Interview process was frustrating to say the least. Lots of pre-screen "tests" which some were two to 3 hours of asking computer science style questions that are irrelevant for web development. It was a frustrating process that was exasperated by COVID.

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lucb1e 5y ago

> I don't believe one dam word the government or the media says anymore. Not one word. Not about the cough. If you really mean this, if you really think the pandemic is all a big conspiracy created by your government... makes me genuinely curious how you come across in interviews. I don't think you're wrong about the labor shortage thing. Similar story here: quite a bit of trouble finding a job as a 25 year old tech person while you hear left and right that nobody can seem to find any employees anymore. But that one statistic is skewed, or perhaps that companies and employees aren't properly being matched, doesn't mean "the cough" (and what many people that contracted the virus describe as the worst week in their life) is all a big hoax.

temphnaccount 5y ago
I am curious as to how did you jump from not believing the government to pandemic being a conspiracy? Pandemic is real and governments have lied to their people, more so in last one and a half year - both of these statements can be true. Also you should not question someone's capability to come across in the interviews based on their venting on online anonymous platform. Humans can have vastly different emotions depending on the situation.
- bloopernova 5y ago
  Over the past 18 months or so, since the COVID-19 pandemic has been foremost in our minds, a group of people have espoused certain opinions or viewpoints. Namely: The pandemic is a hoax It doesn't kill people Those that did die, died from other causes That they won't wear a mask That they won't get a vaccine That the vaccine modifies DNA The person who referred to the COVID-19 pandemic as "the cough" may or may not hold any or all of those views. But 18 months of hearing that group of people espouse those views leads many of us to learn that if they support one of the views above, they support them all. Again, that may or may not be correct or ethical. It's just our experience.

jen20 5y ago

> Not about the cough I\m going to go ahead and guess that this is an attitude problem, not a skill problem. Further - do you _really_ have 15 years of experience of C# and SQL Server, or (as is very common in that space) do you actually have one year of experience 15 times?

100-xyz 5y ago

We are looking for SW engineers in the USA. Can you drop me an email leisenming AT protonmail DOT com? Thanks and good luck.

cactus2093 5y ago

I agree with the other commenters, you sound completely detached from reality and I would never even make it far enough to evaluate your skills before declining to work with you. The best thing you can do is probably to get some therapy. Yes, there are some legitimate scandals and lies in the media and government. Most other people are able to take this in stride and still live happy, productive lives. Standards of living are higher now than they ever have been in history. Things aren’t all bad. If you shift your attitude and stop conveying that you think you are not getting what you deserve and everyone is out to get you, and become nicer and more humble, I think you’ll have much better luck.

mynameishere 5y ago
You armchair psychiatrists work fast! Why would he need a therapist when he's got you telling him he's a lunatic based upon his venting on the internet?

marcinzm 5y ago

We reject more senior candidates for soft skill issues than we do for technical issues. Most common one is them aggressively saying "why did you do it this way, you should have done it this way" during interviews without knowing any context. >boarding up New York City Not really, we're doing rather well over here. >there is homeless everywhere There have been homeless everywhere for decades, if you think this is new then you haven't been paying attention. edit: Also believing covid isn't real indicates that you have overall issues with rational understanding of complex topics or processing third party information. That underlying mental model tends to leak in interviews and is definitely a massive red flag.

127 5y ago

As a (potential) employer, I wouldn't really care about age. It's all about how much you make money for me. What your performance to cost ratio? People can be cats or dogs for all I care. Young have the advantage that they usually drastically undervalue themselves and thus provide an unbeatable proposition. They're usually more energetic, positive and optimistic, which is more pleasant to be around and thus makes the work environment more productive. In an ideal system: if employers fail to hire workforce that benefits their company more, they will fall behind the competition. There most definitely are preconceived notions about people on how they look, but that should be a competitive advantage to a company that can leverage it.

notpachet 5y ago
> Young have the advantage that they usually drastically undervalue themselves and thus provide an unbeatable proposition. They're usually more energetic, positive and optimistic, which is more pleasant to be around and thus makes the work environment more productive. This feels myopic. It cuts both ways. Young employees are often much more susceptible to conflating their personal identity with their work identity, which can lead to serious emotional and psychological issues down the road. Even if we're looking at it purely from an extract-value-from-employee angle, I don't want a team that's running purely on misplaced idealism and ramen cups, because that's not sustainable. So the counterpoint to your comment would be: older employees have the advantage of serving as an example to younger ones for how to better manage work/life balance, which yields a healthier team in aggregate. Only a Sith hires in absolutes. [edit: grammatical typo]

poisonborz 5y ago

If you do, stop including your birthdate on CV-s, and don't answer questions regarding your afe.

sativallday 5y ago

Only display the last 10 years of work history on your resume. Apply for Senior/Staff+ positions. Do not display your graduation date. Do not display age. Dye your hair or shave your head, etc. Get more hip eye glasses and just wear black t-shirts. Fake a more hip accent/voice during your interview.