5 ms·

(also frustrated) re: adboys and girls, the problem (at least in the US) is that vaccines are political, so persuading people to get them is seen as dangerousl

by jauer 5y ago

(also frustrated) re: adboys and girls, the problem (at least in the US) is that vaccines are political, so persuading people to get them is seen as dangerously close to subverting democratic society. Same thing as taking action to counter foreign influence campaigns. see also: the leaks to project veritas about Facebook's counter vaccine hesitancy program.

kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 5y ago
Well, back when Harris and Biden both said they were hesitant to get a vaccine produced under Trump, they kinda set the stage for the dumpster fire we have today.
- selimthegrim 5y ago
  The point was if he rushed it. The companies delayed their announcement and strengthened the trials so the current Trumpista favorite argument would in theory lose steam.
  - throwawayboise 5y ago
    No. They didn't want Trump to have that "win." It was purely political. The vaccines they are pushing now are the very same ones that were developed and tested while Trump was in office.
    - selimthegrim 5y ago
      Do you think if they had announced before the election and Trump had won all the current recalcitrants would be lining up in droves to take it, their concerns about rushing assuaged?
      - throwawayboise 5y ago
        All of them? No. I think some on the left would refuse it because Trump. I think some on the right would accept it because Trump. I think some would still be hesitant because their concerns with the vaccines are not political.
    - oezi 5y ago
      It certainly wasn't purely political. It was based on the idea that the decision to approve the vaccine is the job of the FDA and that they have to pass their safety and effectiveness verdict. The US FDA was among the first world-wide to approve (Europe was months later) which in my mind shows that there is not much to an argument that political forces delayed the announcement (and how could the opposition / democrats influence a government institution such as the FDA if the ruling party couldn't? Please no deep state bonkers). > The vaccines they are pushing now are the very same ones that were developed and tested while Trump was in office. I would challenge that Trump should receive any political credit for supporting the development of the vaccines, because when the development was happening at Moderna (US) and BionTech (Germany) in spring 2020 Trump was still rejecting SARS-COV-19 as irrelevant. Trump should receive credit for Warpspeed that made sure the production of the developed vaccines is happening and is happening in a way that benefits the American people first (to great frustration to many Europeans).
      - beerandt 5y ago
        >It was based on the idea that the decision to approve the vaccine is the job of the FDA and that they have to pass their safety and effectiveness verdict. You can't claim they were just following the rules, because they weren't. They bended and broke whatever rules they saw fit to get the vaccine done, including doing multiple phases simultaneously. If the FDA were following the rules, we still wouldn't have a vaccine available, because they still don't have full FDA approval. >Trump was still rejecting SARS-COV-19 as irrelevant Trump was called racist by Congressional D's for wanting to shut down the international travel to prevent the spread in February.
        oezi 5y ago
        > You can't claim they were just following the rules, because they weren't. They bended and broke whatever rules they saw fit to get the vaccine done, including doing multiple phases simultaneously. I don't get your argument here. On the one side people are insinuating that the democrats influenced the FDA to delay the vaccine, then you suggest that the FDA rushed it. > Trump was called racist by Congressional D's for wanting to shut down the international travel to prevent the spread in February. It is tiresome to discuss with Americans. Why rip everything out of context? https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/the-facts-on-trumps-travel-restrictions/ https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/the-facts-on-trumps-travel...
    - rhizome 5y ago
      Would you agree that if Trump thought the vaccine was delayed to make him look bad we'd hear him shouting it from the rooftops?
  - Leparamour 5y ago
    >The companies delayed their announcement and strengthened the trials so the current Trumpista favorite argument would in theory lose steam. They [Pfizer] delayed the announcement to three days after the elections. I'm sure those three days were critical in testing and making the vaccine safe for the consumer./s It was an obvious political move to deny back-then US president Trump a public success as a consequence from him enacting "Operation Warp Speed".[0][1][2] Also, "Trumpista"? You must feel really clever and enlightened. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2020/nov/20/trump-accuses-pfizer-of-delaying-vaccine-announcement-until-after-election-video https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2020/nov/20/trump-... [1] https://outline.com/bH8vBM https://outline.com/bH8vBM [2] https://jewishjournal.com/news/314659/biden-is-backed-by-both-aipac-and-j-street-jews/ https://jewishjournal.com/news/314659/biden-is-backed-by-bot...
    - selimthegrim 5y ago
      I live in New Orleans where unvaccinated cases are exploding and people in surrounding areas specifically cite Democrats as a reason not to take the vaccine. I’ll stand by my words. And I’m not fan of Pfizer trying to make vaccine policy by press release but didn’t one of the companies turn down Warp Speed money to avoid this perception?
      - nradov 5y ago
        All of the vaccines used in the US received funding through Operation Warp Speed. J&J and Moderna got R&D money and production orders. Pfizer only got production orders. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Warp_Speed?wprov=sfla1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Warp_Speed?wprov=sfl...
- gumby 5y ago
  I was unable to find an article about either of them saying this (and I think I would have seen it). Biden was an early adopter, back in December.
  - beerandt 5y ago
    That's evidence of media bias, not evidence that it wasn't said. ETA: Here's Jezebel's pre election coverage of their statements, when everyone still claimed Trump was lying about the vaccine being close. >On Sunday, during an interview on CNN’s State of the Union, Harris was asked whether she would trust a vaccine doled out by the Trump administration before Election Day. >“I think that we have learned since this pandemic started, but really before that, that there’s very little that we can trust that comes out of Donald Trump’s mouth,” Harris said. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/anti-vaxxer-accuses-biden-and-harris-of-being-anti-vaxxers/ar-BB18PhVp https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/anti-vaxxer-accuses-...
- nradov 5y ago
  Several state governments including California stated that they wouldn't trust FDA vaccine approvals and wanted to do their own safety reviews. That didn't help with public confidence either. https://www.gov.ca.gov/2020/10/27/western-states-join-californias-scientific-safety-review-workgroup-to-ensure-safety-of-covid-19-vaccine/ https://www.gov.ca.gov/2020/10/27/western-states-join-califo...

by jauer 5y ago

kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 5y ago

Well, back when Harris and Biden both said they were hesitant to get a vaccine produced under Trump, they kinda set the stage for the dumpster fire we have today.

selimthegrim 5y ago
The point was if he rushed it. The companies delayed their announcement and strengthened the trials so the current Trumpista favorite argument would in theory lose steam.
- throwawayboise 5y ago
  No. They didn't want Trump to have that "win." It was purely political. The vaccines they are pushing now are the very same ones that were developed and tested while Trump was in office.
  - selimthegrim 5y ago
    Do you think if they had announced before the election and Trump had won all the current recalcitrants would be lining up in droves to take it, their concerns about rushing assuaged?
    - throwawayboise 5y ago
      All of them? No. I think some on the left would refuse it because Trump. I think some on the right would accept it because Trump. I think some would still be hesitant because their concerns with the vaccines are not political.
  - oezi 5y ago
    It certainly wasn't purely political. It was based on the idea that the decision to approve the vaccine is the job of the FDA and that they have to pass their safety and effectiveness verdict. The US FDA was among the first world-wide to approve (Europe was months later) which in my mind shows that there is not much to an argument that political forces delayed the announcement (and how could the opposition / democrats influence a government institution such as the FDA if the ruling party couldn't? Please no deep state bonkers). > The vaccines they are pushing now are the very same ones that were developed and tested while Trump was in office. I would challenge that Trump should receive any political credit for supporting the development of the vaccines, because when the development was happening at Moderna (US) and BionTech (Germany) in spring 2020 Trump was still rejecting SARS-COV-19 as irrelevant. Trump should receive credit for Warpspeed that made sure the production of the developed vaccines is happening and is happening in a way that benefits the American people first (to great frustration to many Europeans).
    - beerandt 5y ago
      >It was based on the idea that the decision to approve the vaccine is the job of the FDA and that they have to pass their safety and effectiveness verdict. You can't claim they were just following the rules, because they weren't. They bended and broke whatever rules they saw fit to get the vaccine done, including doing multiple phases simultaneously. If the FDA were following the rules, we still wouldn't have a vaccine available, because they still don't have full FDA approval. >Trump was still rejecting SARS-COV-19 as irrelevant Trump was called racist by Congressional D's for wanting to shut down the international travel to prevent the spread in February.
      - oezi 5y ago
        > You can't claim they were just following the rules, because they weren't. They bended and broke whatever rules they saw fit to get the vaccine done, including doing multiple phases simultaneously. I don't get your argument here. On the one side people are insinuating that the democrats influenced the FDA to delay the vaccine, then you suggest that the FDA rushed it. > Trump was called racist by Congressional D's for wanting to shut down the international travel to prevent the spread in February. It is tiresome to discuss with Americans. Why rip everything out of context? https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/the-facts-on-trumps-travel-restrictions/ https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/the-facts-on-trumps-travel...
  - rhizome 5y ago
    Would you agree that if Trump thought the vaccine was delayed to make him look bad we'd hear him shouting it from the rooftops?
- Leparamour 5y ago
  >The companies delayed their announcement and strengthened the trials so the current Trumpista favorite argument would in theory lose steam. They [Pfizer] delayed the announcement to three days after the elections. I'm sure those three days were critical in testing and making the vaccine safe for the consumer./s It was an obvious political move to deny back-then US president Trump a public success as a consequence from him enacting "Operation Warp Speed".[0][1][2] Also, "Trumpista"? You must feel really clever and enlightened. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2020/nov/20/trump-accuses-pfizer-of-delaying-vaccine-announcement-until-after-election-video https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2020/nov/20/trump-... [1] https://outline.com/bH8vBM https://outline.com/bH8vBM [2] https://jewishjournal.com/news/314659/biden-is-backed-by-both-aipac-and-j-street-jews/ https://jewishjournal.com/news/314659/biden-is-backed-by-bot...
  - selimthegrim 5y ago
    I live in New Orleans where unvaccinated cases are exploding and people in surrounding areas specifically cite Democrats as a reason not to take the vaccine. I’ll stand by my words. And I’m not fan of Pfizer trying to make vaccine policy by press release but didn’t one of the companies turn down Warp Speed money to avoid this perception?
    - nradov 5y ago
      All of the vaccines used in the US received funding through Operation Warp Speed. J&J and Moderna got R&D money and production orders. Pfizer only got production orders. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Warp_Speed?wprov=sfla1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Warp_Speed?wprov=sfl...
gumby 5y ago
I was unable to find an article about either of them saying this (and I think I would have seen it). Biden was an early adopter, back in December.
- beerandt 5y ago
  That's evidence of media bias, not evidence that it wasn't said. ETA: Here's Jezebel's pre election coverage of their statements, when everyone still claimed Trump was lying about the vaccine being close. >On Sunday, during an interview on CNN’s State of the Union, Harris was asked whether she would trust a vaccine doled out by the Trump administration before Election Day. >“I think that we have learned since this pandemic started, but really before that, that there’s very little that we can trust that comes out of Donald Trump’s mouth,” Harris said. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/anti-vaxxer-accuses-biden-and-harris-of-being-anti-vaxxers/ar-BB18PhVp https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/anti-vaxxer-accuses-...
nradov 5y ago
Several state governments including California stated that they wouldn't trust FDA vaccine approvals and wanted to do their own safety reviews. That didn't help with public confidence either. https://www.gov.ca.gov/2020/10/27/western-states-join-californias-scientific-safety-review-workgroup-to-ensure-safety-of-covid-19-vaccine/ https://www.gov.ca.gov/2020/10/27/western-states-join-califo...