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Should have built AI tools to educate the ignorant populace and encourage them to get a vaccine. I know there have to be tons of adboys and girls out there who

Should have built AI tools to educate the ignorant populace and encourage them to get a vaccine. I know there have to be tons of adboys and girls out there whose only job is to persuade people to do something that could have knocked this out of the park. I see we are still at about 50% vaccination and Walmart is begging people to come get a free vaccine. I’m sorry my tone is negative but this is really getting me frustrated and making me lose hope in the future of humanity really. The stupid is winning. It’s the Asimov quote coming true. :( We’ve got to take real action against this. "Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."

jauer 5y ago
(also frustrated) re: adboys and girls, the problem (at least in the US) is that vaccines are political, so persuading people to get them is seen as dangerously close to subverting democratic society. Same thing as taking action to counter foreign influence campaigns. see also: the leaks to project veritas about Facebook's counter vaccine hesitancy program.
- kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 5y ago
  Well, back when Harris and Biden both said they were hesitant to get a vaccine produced under Trump, they kinda set the stage for the dumpster fire we have today.
  - selimthegrim 5y ago
    The point was if he rushed it. The companies delayed their announcement and strengthened the trials so the current Trumpista favorite argument would in theory lose steam.
    - throwawayboise 5y ago
      No. They didn't want Trump to have that "win." It was purely political. The vaccines they are pushing now are the very same ones that were developed and tested while Trump was in office.
      - selimthegrim 5y ago
        Do you think if they had announced before the election and Trump had won all the current recalcitrants would be lining up in droves to take it, their concerns about rushing assuaged?
        throwawayboise 5y ago
        All of them? No. I think some on the left would refuse it because Trump. I think some on the right would accept it because Trump. I think some would still be hesitant because their concerns with the vaccines are not political.
      - oezi 5y ago
        It certainly wasn't purely political. It was based on the idea that the decision to approve the vaccine is the job of the FDA and that they have to pass their safety and effectiveness verdict. The US FDA was among the first world-wide to approve (Europe was months later) which in my mind shows that there is not much to an argument that political forces delayed the announcement (and how could the opposition / democrats influence a government institution such as the FDA if the ruling party couldn't? Please no deep state bonkers). > The vaccines they are pushing now are the very same ones that were developed and tested while Trump was in office. I would challenge that Trump should receive any political credit for supporting the development of the vaccines, because when the development was happening at Moderna (US) and BionTech (Germany) in spring 2020 Trump was still rejecting SARS-COV-19 as irrelevant. Trump should receive credit for Warpspeed that made sure the production of the developed vaccines is happening and is happening in a way that benefits the American people first (to great frustration to many Europeans).
        beerandt 5y ago
    - Leparamour 5y ago
      >The companies delayed their announcement and strengthened the trials so the current Trumpista favorite argument would in theory lose steam. They [Pfizer] delayed the announcement to three days after the elections. I'm sure those three days were critical in testing and making the vaccine safe for the consumer./s It was an obvious political move to deny back-then US president Trump a public success as a consequence from him enacting "Operation Warp Speed".[0][1][2] Also, "Trumpista"? You must feel really clever and enlightened. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2020/nov/20/trump-accuses-pfizer-of-delaying-vaccine-announcement-until-after-election-video https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2020/nov/20/trump-... [1] https://outline.com/bH8vBM https://outline.com/bH8vBM [2] https://jewishjournal.com/news/314659/biden-is-backed-by-both-aipac-and-j-street-jews/ https://jewishjournal.com/news/314659/biden-is-backed-by-bot...
      - selimthegrim 5y ago
        I live in New Orleans where unvaccinated cases are exploding and people in surrounding areas specifically cite Democrats as a reason not to take the vaccine. I’ll stand by my words. And I’m not fan of Pfizer trying to make vaccine policy by press release but didn’t one of the companies turn down Warp Speed money to avoid this perception?
        nradov 5y ago
        All of the vaccines used in the US received funding through Operation Warp Speed. J&J and Moderna got R&D money and production orders. Pfizer only got production orders. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Warp_Speed?wprov=sfla1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Warp_Speed?wprov=sfl...
  - gumby 5y ago
    I was unable to find an article about either of them saying this (and I think I would have seen it). Biden was an early adopter, back in December.
    - beerandt 5y ago
      That's evidence of media bias, not evidence that it wasn't said. ETA: Here's Jezebel's pre election coverage of their statements, when everyone still claimed Trump was lying about the vaccine being close. >On Sunday, during an interview on CNN’s State of the Union, Harris was asked whether she would trust a vaccine doled out by the Trump administration before Election Day. >“I think that we have learned since this pandemic started, but really before that, that there’s very little that we can trust that comes out of Donald Trump’s mouth,” Harris said. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/anti-vaxxer-accuses-biden-and-harris-of-being-anti-vaxxers/ar-BB18PhVp https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/anti-vaxxer-accuses-...
  - nradov 5y ago
    Several state governments including California stated that they wouldn't trust FDA vaccine approvals and wanted to do their own safety reviews. That didn't help with public confidence either. https://www.gov.ca.gov/2020/10/27/western-states-join-californias-scientific-safety-review-workgroup-to-ensure-safety-of-covid-19-vaccine/ https://www.gov.ca.gov/2020/10/27/western-states-join-califo...
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
travisgriggs 5y ago
/c/s So maybe the real mistake was making it free. IF a company could make a few bucks for every vaccine administered, we would have seen the ad industry being its full might to bear to harvest as many people getting it as possible.
grumblenum 5y ago
I don't think there is an absence of software with the purpose of convincing the public to consume the right pharmaceutical products. I would say every owner of major internet property has adopted some kind of feature or process to promote them. Indeed, it has become quite the fashion statement to signal one's zeal for pop-science and one's contempt for the "deniers." I'm sure there's a market for 'Wear. The. Mask.' bumper stickers. I would agree that stupid is winning, but I probably agree more with Kant on what Enlightenment means.
forcry 5y ago
> The stupid is winning. Calling someone stupid just because they do not share your blind trust in a bunch of people is kind of malicious.
- kook_throwaway 5y ago
  Blind trust in professional liars (politicians) and criminals (didn't Pfizer and J&J get the two biggest criminal fines ever assessed?). Here's an interesting read from 2010 about how they were having former execs put in power in Canada. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2875889/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2875889/ But I guess I'm the stupid one.
Romanulus 5y ago
... and yet, CDC says 74% of people infected in Massachusetts Covid outbreak were fully vaccinated.
trhway 5y ago
>to educate the ignorant populace ok, lets educate. And before educating others lets educate ourselves. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/30/cdc-study-shows-74percent-of-people-infected-in-massachusetts-covid-outbreak-were-fully-vaccinated.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/30/cdc-study-shows-74percent-of... "About three-fourths of people infected in a Massachusetts Covid-19 outbreak were fully vaccinated, according to new data published Friday by the CDC. The new data, published in the U.S. agency’s Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, also found that fully vaccinated people who get infected carry as much of the virus in their nose as unvaccinated people. " And another point related to education. Couple days ago a White House official stated :"We're dealing with an evolving virus. There is no precedent, and there is no playbook". Note, it isn't the White House of the previous buffoon, it is supposedly educated current White House. No wonder that being led by the people like this the current pandemic response isn't that much better than the ones of the previous centuries.
- doovd 5y ago
  The vaccine doesn't stop you from getting covid. It reduces the effects so you're less likely to need hospitalization. So saying x% of people with covid are vaccinated doesn't mean much. There's some education for you.
  - trhway 5y ago
    >The vaccine doesn't stop you from getting covid. lets that sink. Especially considering that according to the above mentioned CDC data infected vaccinated people spread virus as infected unvaccinated. >It reduces the effects so you're less likely to need hospitalization. So, as current vaccines don't stop infection and spread, why would the most of the population whose risk of hospitalization is very low need (and even forced) to vaccinate?
    - forcry 5y ago
      >So, as current vaccines don't stop infection and spread, why would the most of the population whose risk of hospitalization is very low need (and even forced) to vaccinate? Good point.
parineum 5y ago
I've been telling people that the way to get people to take the vaccine would be to give Trump credit for operation lightspeed (which I think he deserves but that's irrelevant) and start referring to the vaccine as Trump's Vaccine. I'm okay with handing Trump a win if it can help save lives and end this pandemic.
- azinman2 5y ago
  Totally agree. I’ve been thinking the same, and it’s odd to me that he didn’t go that route to begin with. You’d think he’d be all over it.
  - imnotlost 5y ago
    Once he realizes he actually lost the election and that the Trump insurrection failed he can move on to other important matters such as public health. Maybe a Trump branded vaccine can be sold at a premium. Throw in a Trump Steak and a Trump Uni Diploma with it to bring people in?
    - redis_mlc 5y ago
      > Once he realizes he actually lost the election If he did, leftists wouldn't be trying frantically to stop the election audits, which are allowed under law. So far, multiple election irregularities have been found, and the last-minute election law changes have been rolled back. I believe 5% of the "registered voters" in Fulton County have been shown to be in error, tainting that election. FYI: Trump supporters are calling 2024 "Trump's 3rd term." And they're correct. Half of the country considers Trump to be the current President, and "Biden to be in the White House." > and that the Trump insurrection Again, if there was, the people arrested would have gun charges, and they don't. 5 people died - 4 of natural causes, and 1 shot by Capitol Police. How is that an "insurrection"? Facts are more important than your feelings.
- snovv_crash 5y ago
  The vast majority of anti-vaxxers I know are more on the Green side. The Trump supporters got the vaccine as soon as they could.
criticaltinker 5y ago
I understand your frustration, but the condescending remarks are not conducive to wholesome scientific discussion. Diversity is the way nature builds robust and balanced ecosystems - AI tools that reinforce ideological homogeneity could be catastrophic, for reasons I consider self-evident. Returning to the topic at hand, and as a counterpoint to your claims, there are legitimate second and third order effects to consider regarding vaccines and the evolutionary dynamics of SARS-CoV-2. Don't take my word for it - here is peer-reviewed research from the brightest minds and top institutions in the world, raising serious concerns about approaching eradication of the virus purely through mRNA vaccines in their current form [1]. I cannot emphasize enough that the spirit of science is to question assumptions and rigorously prove hypothesis. [1] Risk of rapid evolutionary escape from biomedical interventions targeting SARS-CoV-2 spike protein (April 2021) https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33909660/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33909660/
- blub 5y ago
  Social diversity of opinion is also to be expected. No matter what the leadership decides, there will be people that criticize it and there will be people that are strongly against it. The reasons almost don’t matter. If the leadership doesn’t have at least two plans to deal with this expected situation, then they have failed.
- TomSwirly 5y ago
  > I cannot emphasize enough that the spirit of science is to question assumptions and rigorously prove hypothesis. But that's not what we're getting. Instead, we're getting a large number of people who haven't spent ten minutes bothering to learn anything about the science posting obvious bullshit. How is anyone supposed to get actual science done if nearly all the "questioning" is repetitive worthless lies by people who have absolutely no interest in science at all and are simply screaming obvious lies at the top of their voices? A question I ask a lot of the vaccine deniers on my Facebook page is, "Can you give a quick explanation in your own words why COVID-19 is so good at getting past the human immune system?" No one has even tried to answer.
  - thinkingemote 5y ago
edmundsauto 5y ago
I’m not sure if adboys includes FAANGs, but mqny of those companies have spent billions of dollars to do just what you said. There is an argument they weren’t as effective as they could have been. Is that what you mean?

jauer 5y ago

(also frustrated) re: adboys and girls, the problem (at least in the US) is that vaccines are political, so persuading people to get them is seen as dangerously close to subverting democratic society. Same thing as taking action to counter foreign influence campaigns. see also: the leaks to project veritas about Facebook's counter vaccine hesitancy program.

kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 5y ago
Well, back when Harris and Biden both said they were hesitant to get a vaccine produced under Trump, they kinda set the stage for the dumpster fire we have today.
- selimthegrim 5y ago
  The point was if he rushed it. The companies delayed their announcement and strengthened the trials so the current Trumpista favorite argument would in theory lose steam.
  - throwawayboise 5y ago
    No. They didn't want Trump to have that "win." It was purely political. The vaccines they are pushing now are the very same ones that were developed and tested while Trump was in office.
    - selimthegrim 5y ago
      Do you think if they had announced before the election and Trump had won all the current recalcitrants would be lining up in droves to take it, their concerns about rushing assuaged?
      - throwawayboise 5y ago
        All of them? No. I think some on the left would refuse it because Trump. I think some on the right would accept it because Trump. I think some would still be hesitant because their concerns with the vaccines are not political.
    - oezi 5y ago
      It certainly wasn't purely political. It was based on the idea that the decision to approve the vaccine is the job of the FDA and that they have to pass their safety and effectiveness verdict. The US FDA was among the first world-wide to approve (Europe was months later) which in my mind shows that there is not much to an argument that political forces delayed the announcement (and how could the opposition / democrats influence a government institution such as the FDA if the ruling party couldn't? Please no deep state bonkers). > The vaccines they are pushing now are the very same ones that were developed and tested while Trump was in office. I would challenge that Trump should receive any political credit for supporting the development of the vaccines, because when the development was happening at Moderna (US) and BionTech (Germany) in spring 2020 Trump was still rejecting SARS-COV-19 as irrelevant. Trump should receive credit for Warpspeed that made sure the production of the developed vaccines is happening and is happening in a way that benefits the American people first (to great frustration to many Europeans).
      - beerandt 5y ago
  - Leparamour 5y ago
    >The companies delayed their announcement and strengthened the trials so the current Trumpista favorite argument would in theory lose steam. They [Pfizer] delayed the announcement to three days after the elections. I'm sure those three days were critical in testing and making the vaccine safe for the consumer./s It was an obvious political move to deny back-then US president Trump a public success as a consequence from him enacting "Operation Warp Speed".[0][1][2] Also, "Trumpista"? You must feel really clever and enlightened. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2020/nov/20/trump-accuses-pfizer-of-delaying-vaccine-announcement-until-after-election-video https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2020/nov/20/trump-... [1] https://outline.com/bH8vBM https://outline.com/bH8vBM [2] https://jewishjournal.com/news/314659/biden-is-backed-by-both-aipac-and-j-street-jews/ https://jewishjournal.com/news/314659/biden-is-backed-by-bot...
    - selimthegrim 5y ago
      I live in New Orleans where unvaccinated cases are exploding and people in surrounding areas specifically cite Democrats as a reason not to take the vaccine. I’ll stand by my words. And I’m not fan of Pfizer trying to make vaccine policy by press release but didn’t one of the companies turn down Warp Speed money to avoid this perception?
      - nradov 5y ago
        All of the vaccines used in the US received funding through Operation Warp Speed. J&J and Moderna got R&D money and production orders. Pfizer only got production orders. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Warp_Speed?wprov=sfla1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Warp_Speed?wprov=sfl...
- gumby 5y ago
  I was unable to find an article about either of them saying this (and I think I would have seen it). Biden was an early adopter, back in December.
  - beerandt 5y ago
    That's evidence of media bias, not evidence that it wasn't said. ETA: Here's Jezebel's pre election coverage of their statements, when everyone still claimed Trump was lying about the vaccine being close. >On Sunday, during an interview on CNN’s State of the Union, Harris was asked whether she would trust a vaccine doled out by the Trump administration before Election Day. >“I think that we have learned since this pandemic started, but really before that, that there’s very little that we can trust that comes out of Donald Trump’s mouth,” Harris said. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/anti-vaxxer-accuses-biden-and-harris-of-being-anti-vaxxers/ar-BB18PhVp https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/anti-vaxxer-accuses-...
- nradov 5y ago
  Several state governments including California stated that they wouldn't trust FDA vaccine approvals and wanted to do their own safety reviews. That didn't help with public confidence either. https://www.gov.ca.gov/2020/10/27/western-states-join-californias-scientific-safety-review-workgroup-to-ensure-safety-of-covid-19-vaccine/ https://www.gov.ca.gov/2020/10/27/western-states-join-califo...

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

travisgriggs 5y ago

/c/s So maybe the real mistake was making it free. IF a company could make a few bucks for every vaccine administered, we would have seen the ad industry being its full might to bear to harvest as many people getting it as possible.

grumblenum 5y ago

I don't think there is an absence of software with the purpose of convincing the public to consume the right pharmaceutical products. I would say every owner of major internet property has adopted some kind of feature or process to promote them. Indeed, it has become quite the fashion statement to signal one's zeal for pop-science and one's contempt for the "deniers." I'm sure there's a market for 'Wear. The. Mask.' bumper stickers. I would agree that stupid is winning, but I probably agree more with Kant on what Enlightenment means.

forcry 5y ago

> The stupid is winning. Calling someone stupid just because they do not share your blind trust in a bunch of people is kind of malicious.

kook_throwaway 5y ago
Blind trust in professional liars (politicians) and criminals (didn't Pfizer and J&J get the two biggest criminal fines ever assessed?). Here's an interesting read from 2010 about how they were having former execs put in power in Canada. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2875889/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2875889/ But I guess I'm the stupid one.

Romanulus 5y ago

... and yet, CDC says 74% of people infected in Massachusetts Covid outbreak were fully vaccinated.

trhway 5y ago

>to educate the ignorant populace ok, lets educate. And before educating others lets educate ourselves. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/30/cdc-study-shows-74percent-of-people-infected-in-massachusetts-covid-outbreak-were-fully-vaccinated.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/30/cdc-study-shows-74percent-of... "About three-fourths of people infected in a Massachusetts Covid-19 outbreak were fully vaccinated, according to new data published Friday by the CDC. The new data, published in the U.S. agency’s Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, also found that fully vaccinated people who get infected carry as much of the virus in their nose as unvaccinated people. " And another point related to education. Couple days ago a White House official stated :"We're dealing with an evolving virus. There is no precedent, and there is no playbook". Note, it isn't the White House of the previous buffoon, it is supposedly educated current White House. No wonder that being led by the people like this the current pandemic response isn't that much better than the ones of the previous centuries.

doovd 5y ago
The vaccine doesn't stop you from getting covid. It reduces the effects so you're less likely to need hospitalization. So saying x% of people with covid are vaccinated doesn't mean much. There's some education for you.
- trhway 5y ago
  >The vaccine doesn't stop you from getting covid. lets that sink. Especially considering that according to the above mentioned CDC data infected vaccinated people spread virus as infected unvaccinated. >It reduces the effects so you're less likely to need hospitalization. So, as current vaccines don't stop infection and spread, why would the most of the population whose risk of hospitalization is very low need (and even forced) to vaccinate?
  - forcry 5y ago
    >So, as current vaccines don't stop infection and spread, why would the most of the population whose risk of hospitalization is very low need (and even forced) to vaccinate? Good point.

parineum 5y ago

I've been telling people that the way to get people to take the vaccine would be to give Trump credit for operation lightspeed (which I think he deserves but that's irrelevant) and start referring to the vaccine as Trump's Vaccine. I'm okay with handing Trump a win if it can help save lives and end this pandemic.

azinman2 5y ago
Totally agree. I’ve been thinking the same, and it’s odd to me that he didn’t go that route to begin with. You’d think he’d be all over it.
- imnotlost 5y ago
  Once he realizes he actually lost the election and that the Trump insurrection failed he can move on to other important matters such as public health. Maybe a Trump branded vaccine can be sold at a premium. Throw in a Trump Steak and a Trump Uni Diploma with it to bring people in?
  - redis_mlc 5y ago
    > Once he realizes he actually lost the election If he did, leftists wouldn't be trying frantically to stop the election audits, which are allowed under law. So far, multiple election irregularities have been found, and the last-minute election law changes have been rolled back. I believe 5% of the "registered voters" in Fulton County have been shown to be in error, tainting that election. FYI: Trump supporters are calling 2024 "Trump's 3rd term." And they're correct. Half of the country considers Trump to be the current President, and "Biden to be in the White House." > and that the Trump insurrection Again, if there was, the people arrested would have gun charges, and they don't. 5 people died - 4 of natural causes, and 1 shot by Capitol Police. How is that an "insurrection"? Facts are more important than your feelings.
snovv_crash 5y ago
The vast majority of anti-vaxxers I know are more on the Green side. The Trump supporters got the vaccine as soon as they could.

criticaltinker 5y ago

I understand your frustration, but the condescending remarks are not conducive to wholesome scientific discussion. Diversity is the way nature builds robust and balanced ecosystems - AI tools that reinforce ideological homogeneity could be catastrophic, for reasons I consider self-evident. Returning to the topic at hand, and as a counterpoint to your claims, there are legitimate second and third order effects to consider regarding vaccines and the evolutionary dynamics of SARS-CoV-2. Don't take my word for it - here is peer-reviewed research from the brightest minds and top institutions in the world, raising serious concerns about approaching eradication of the virus purely through mRNA vaccines in their current form [1]. I cannot emphasize enough that the spirit of science is to question assumptions and rigorously prove hypothesis. [1] Risk of rapid evolutionary escape from biomedical interventions targeting SARS-CoV-2 spike protein (April 2021) https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33909660/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33909660/

blub 5y ago
Social diversity of opinion is also to be expected. No matter what the leadership decides, there will be people that criticize it and there will be people that are strongly against it. The reasons almost don’t matter. If the leadership doesn’t have at least two plans to deal with this expected situation, then they have failed.
TomSwirly 5y ago
> I cannot emphasize enough that the spirit of science is to question assumptions and rigorously prove hypothesis. But that's not what we're getting. Instead, we're getting a large number of people who haven't spent ten minutes bothering to learn anything about the science posting obvious bullshit. How is anyone supposed to get actual science done if nearly all the "questioning" is repetitive worthless lies by people who have absolutely no interest in science at all and are simply screaming obvious lies at the top of their voices? A question I ask a lot of the vaccine deniers on my Facebook page is, "Can you give a quick explanation in your own words why COVID-19 is so good at getting past the human immune system?" No one has even tried to answer.
- thinkingemote 5y ago

edmundsauto 5y ago

I’m not sure if adboys includes FAANGs, but mqny of those companies have spent billions of dollars to do just what you said. There is an argument they weren’t as effective as they could have been. Is that what you mean?