5 ms·

900-person delta cluster in Mass. has CDC freaked out–74% are vaccinated

43 points by throwawaysea 5y ago

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
bognition 5y ago
As a vaccinated person I feel the only course forward here is for me to mask up.
- aeternum 5y ago
  Depends how much you want to avoid a couple days of cold-like symptoms. Vaccines were never a silver bullet. They just tilt the odds overwhelmingly in favor of your immune system.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
legerdemain 5y ago
It sounds like the area had a number of large summer events -- sounds like stuff like a county fair and large concerts? If vaccination offers 95% protection in the course of typical daily life, it's not that surprising that one in twenty people will get infected after a series of large public gatherings. It's like everyone looked at that 95% effectiveness number and decided that it's 100% bulletproof protection. The fact that so few were hospitalized (and only one of those hospitalized was vaccinated) is a positive sign.
- ALittleLight 5y ago
  "There were five hospitalizations in the subset: one in an unvaccinated person with underlying medical conditions and four in fully vaccinated people" I think you have vaccination status backwards among the hospitalized.
  - greenbush 5y ago
    Some more detail on the hospitalized people below: "One vaccinated, hospitalized COVID-19 patient had received the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine and three had received the Janssen vaccine." "Four additional, fully vaccinated patients aged 20–70 years were also hospitalized, two of whom had underlying medical conditions." Source: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7031e2.htm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7031e2.htm
cyanydeez 5y ago
perhaps its that they just asked for how they feel and not any records
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
jhayward 5y ago
This is poor reporting, because they don't say what the vaccinated vs unvaccinated ratio is in the exposed crowd. You can't tell anything about the underlying vaccine effectiveness without that information.
- klysm 5y ago
  I don’t see how they would get that information.
  - dragontamer 5y ago
    The CDC article says that the city has a 69%ish vaccination rate. Which is probably the best estimate to this question.
- ksaj 5y ago
  Also, when they do mention vaccination, they don't specify whether the person was fully vaccinated, or only partly (one shot, versus two).
kaminar 5y ago
Seems like we keep discovering new versions, to ensure everyone "gets it"...which then leads to more control.
Fjolsvith 5y ago
Occam's Razor: The vaccine makes your immune system more vulnerable to COVID.
culopatin 5y ago
Why do I keep reading about people who get COVID while being vaccinated like it was not supposed to happen? It was always known that you can get Covid while vaccinated. But you have a low chance of getting in a serious condition. It’s like the journalists writing these things were never aware. News like these are what the unvaccinated people hold on to choose not to get them. Now the title should be out of these 73% how many have gotten serious effects?
- Daishiman 5y ago
  The pandemic has shown the raw incompetence most journalists have when writing about even moderately technical topics. Either that, or their willful mischaracterization of information into the complete opposite of reasonable interpretations by experts.
- ev1 5y ago
  Because the miseducated or misled or only-reads-clickbait-titles sees vaccines as 100%, never failing, complete infection preventers. Which to be honest, if a vaccine truly defended me with zero breakthroughs and zero exceptions for life, I would not care about the vaccination status of anyone else afterward.
betwixthewires 5y ago
I know the conversation is now (IMO deliberately) about how the mask mandates need to come back, but can we take a moment to address the rhetoric of the past few weeks around vaccines? I have been in quite a few discussions on this site and elsewhere where people were getting abused for claiming that a vaccinated host reservoir is nothing more than a selective pressure in an endemic illness, that vaccines are necessary even for low risk individuals because they slow the spread to unvaccinated individuals, that the hospitalization rate will go down if only we are all forced to vaccinate, etc. When will those of you talking like this finally admit you were wrong and that many of those you were arguing with know more about this stuff than you do?
- criticaltinker 5y ago
  For what it's worth I was with you up until your last sentence - I found the tone unnecessarily condescending. We don't need people to admit they were wrong - we need people to keep an open mind and understand that top researchers and institutions in the world are finding evidence that mRNA vaccines in their current form may be subtly working against us in complex ways [1]. I'm talking about second and third order evolutionary dynamics that are not explainable in terms of simple rhetoric. To support my statements, see these relevant peer-reviewed publications: [1] Risk of rapid evolutionary escape from biomedical interventions targeting SARS-CoV-2 spike protein (April 2021) https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33909660/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33909660/ [2] Why does drug resistance readily evolve but vaccine resistance does not? (2017) https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/pdf/10.1098/rspb.2016.2562 https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/pdf/10.1098/rspb.2016... [3] Imperfect Vaccination Can Enhance the Transmission of Highly Virulent Pathogens (2015) https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371%2Fjournal.pbio.1002198 https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371%2Fj... [4] The adaptive evolution of virulence: a review of theoretical predictions and empirical tests (2015) https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/content/view/30EC8AB1717BF7A173CF5E051DBB498F/S003118201500092Xa_hi.pdf/_div_class__title__The_adaptive_evolution_of_virulence__a_review_of_theoretical_predictions_and_empirical_tests__div_.pdf https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/c... [5] The phylogenomics of evolving virus virulence (2018) https://www.nature.com/articles/s41576-018-0055-5 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41576-018-0055-5 [6] Monitor for COVID-19 vaccine resistance evolution during clinical trials (Nov 2020) https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/journal.pbio.3001000 https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/jou...
kbos87 5y ago
It feels like this particular incidence is the source of so much panic and misinformation. Is there news here? Yes, it appears as though we now know that vaccinated individuals can spread COVID if they get infected. But the CDC still maintains that infections in the vaccinated are rare, and if it does happen, the effects are mild. Provincetown proves all of this out. It feels like the media is using this as an opportunity to paint the worst possible picture - an uncontrollable outbreak which scares the cautious, and a snap back to mid 2020 restrictions which scares everyone else. The town manager of Provincetown put it well when he essentially said that breakthrough cases were expected on some level, that this whole incident is proof that vaccines work, and that vaccines are our only way out of this. I also can’t help but feel like Provincetown is getting a lot of attention because it’s a hedonistic LGBTQ destination that’s easy for people to turn their nose up at.

43 points by throwawaysea 5y ago

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

bognition 5y ago

As a vaccinated person I feel the only course forward here is for me to mask up.

aeternum 5y ago
Depends how much you want to avoid a couple days of cold-like symptoms. Vaccines were never a silver bullet. They just tilt the odds overwhelmingly in favor of your immune system.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

legerdemain 5y ago

It sounds like the area had a number of large summer events -- sounds like stuff like a county fair and large concerts? If vaccination offers 95% protection in the course of typical daily life, it's not that surprising that one in twenty people will get infected after a series of large public gatherings. It's like everyone looked at that 95% effectiveness number and decided that it's 100% bulletproof protection. The fact that so few were hospitalized (and only one of those hospitalized was vaccinated) is a positive sign.

ALittleLight 5y ago
"There were five hospitalizations in the subset: one in an unvaccinated person with underlying medical conditions and four in fully vaccinated people" I think you have vaccination status backwards among the hospitalized.
- greenbush 5y ago
  Some more detail on the hospitalized people below: "One vaccinated, hospitalized COVID-19 patient had received the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine and three had received the Janssen vaccine." "Four additional, fully vaccinated patients aged 20–70 years were also hospitalized, two of whom had underlying medical conditions." Source: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7031e2.htm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7031e2.htm

cyanydeez 5y ago

perhaps its that they just asked for how they feel and not any records

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

jhayward 5y ago

This is poor reporting, because they don't say what the vaccinated vs unvaccinated ratio is in the exposed crowd. You can't tell anything about the underlying vaccine effectiveness without that information.

klysm 5y ago
I don’t see how they would get that information.
- dragontamer 5y ago
  The CDC article says that the city has a 69%ish vaccination rate. Which is probably the best estimate to this question.
ksaj 5y ago
Also, when they do mention vaccination, they don't specify whether the person was fully vaccinated, or only partly (one shot, versus two).

kaminar 5y ago

Seems like we keep discovering new versions, to ensure everyone "gets it"...which then leads to more control.

Fjolsvith 5y ago

Occam's Razor: The vaccine makes your immune system more vulnerable to COVID.

culopatin 5y ago

Why do I keep reading about people who get COVID while being vaccinated like it was not supposed to happen? It was always known that you can get Covid while vaccinated. But you have a low chance of getting in a serious condition. It’s like the journalists writing these things were never aware. News like these are what the unvaccinated people hold on to choose not to get them. Now the title should be out of these 73% how many have gotten serious effects?

Daishiman 5y ago
The pandemic has shown the raw incompetence most journalists have when writing about even moderately technical topics. Either that, or their willful mischaracterization of information into the complete opposite of reasonable interpretations by experts.
ev1 5y ago
Because the miseducated or misled or only-reads-clickbait-titles sees vaccines as 100%, never failing, complete infection preventers. Which to be honest, if a vaccine truly defended me with zero breakthroughs and zero exceptions for life, I would not care about the vaccination status of anyone else afterward.

betwixthewires 5y ago

I know the conversation is now (IMO deliberately) about how the mask mandates need to come back, but can we take a moment to address the rhetoric of the past few weeks around vaccines? I have been in quite a few discussions on this site and elsewhere where people were getting abused for claiming that a vaccinated host reservoir is nothing more than a selective pressure in an endemic illness, that vaccines are necessary even for low risk individuals because they slow the spread to unvaccinated individuals, that the hospitalization rate will go down if only we are all forced to vaccinate, etc. When will those of you talking like this finally admit you were wrong and that many of those you were arguing with know more about this stuff than you do?

criticaltinker 5y ago
For what it's worth I was with you up until your last sentence - I found the tone unnecessarily condescending. We don't need people to admit they were wrong - we need people to keep an open mind and understand that top researchers and institutions in the world are finding evidence that mRNA vaccines in their current form may be subtly working against us in complex ways [1]. I'm talking about second and third order evolutionary dynamics that are not explainable in terms of simple rhetoric. To support my statements, see these relevant peer-reviewed publications: [1] Risk of rapid evolutionary escape from biomedical interventions targeting SARS-CoV-2 spike protein (April 2021) https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33909660/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33909660/ [2] Why does drug resistance readily evolve but vaccine resistance does not? (2017) https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/pdf/10.1098/rspb.2016.2562 https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/pdf/10.1098/rspb.2016... [3] Imperfect Vaccination Can Enhance the Transmission of Highly Virulent Pathogens (2015) https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371%2Fjournal.pbio.1002198 https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371%2Fj... [4] The adaptive evolution of virulence: a review of theoretical predictions and empirical tests (2015) https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/content/view/30EC8AB1717BF7A173CF5E051DBB498F/S003118201500092Xa_hi.pdf/_div_class__title__The_adaptive_evolution_of_virulence__a_review_of_theoretical_predictions_and_empirical_tests__div_.pdf https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/c... [5] The phylogenomics of evolving virus virulence (2018) https://www.nature.com/articles/s41576-018-0055-5 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41576-018-0055-5 [6] Monitor for COVID-19 vaccine resistance evolution during clinical trials (Nov 2020) https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/journal.pbio.3001000 https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/jou...

kbos87 5y ago

It feels like this particular incidence is the source of so much panic and misinformation. Is there news here? Yes, it appears as though we now know that vaccinated individuals can spread COVID if they get infected. But the CDC still maintains that infections in the vaccinated are rare, and if it does happen, the effects are mild. Provincetown proves all of this out. It feels like the media is using this as an opportunity to paint the worst possible picture - an uncontrollable outbreak which scares the cautious, and a snap back to mid 2020 restrictions which scares everyone else. The town manager of Provincetown put it well when he essentially said that breakthrough cases were expected on some level, that this whole incident is proof that vaccines work, and that vaccines are our only way out of this. I also can’t help but feel like Provincetown is getting a lot of attention because it’s a hedonistic LGBTQ destination that’s easy for people to turn their nose up at.