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Great write-up and a fun read. I was caught off guard by this note: > the delivery guy called me about a laptop: the custom configured M1 MacBook Pro that cos

Great write-up and a fun read. I was caught off guard by this note: > the delivery guy called me about a laptop: the custom configured M1 MacBook Pro that costed as much as 7 junior developer monthly salaries has arrived! I tried the MacBook Pro configurator and could only get up to $2300 USD (excluding optional software like Logic Pro). I’m sure the price and taxation are higher in the author’s country, but I still don’t understand how that could cost the equivalent of 7 months of junior developer salary anywhere.

wil421 5y ago
The resume on the blog says University of Lasi. Google returned something about Romania so is assume that’s where he is.
- vmladenov 5y ago
  No need to assume. The third paragraph of the article says he lives in Romania
  - wil421 5y ago
    Thanks. It also explains the high price. > living in a country like Romania means incredibly high prices on everything Apple.
- ddalex 5y ago
  Iasi, not Lasi, with a capital I, pronounced like [eeashee], major university centre in Northern Romania.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
IggleSniggle 5y ago
Dev says right at the top of the entry that they are writing from Romania. Quick Google shows an average software dev salary of 4800 USD per year. If that’s average, seems like 7x monthly of a junior salary checks out.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- visarga 5y ago
  It's about 1500 USD/month which comes out around 18K/year
- oblio 5y ago
  The minimum net salary in Romania is about €280, which is about $360, which is about $500 net. So $6000 per year net. And no (u abused) junior dev is going to be making minimum salary, that's janitor salary.
  - naniwaduni 5y ago
    > The minimum net salary in Romania is about €280, which is about $360, which is about $500 net. This looks like you double-converted, and and also at an exceptionally high exchange rate. And besides, we should probably be comparing euros directly to Apple's prices in euros, which, best I can tell, are in fact bigger numbers than their USD prices—the baseline offerings are listed at €1,449 and €1,679 (vs $1,299 and $1,499), and I can get the configurator up to €2,599, which puts us at a €370 monthly junior dev salary.
    - oblio 5y ago
      $500 gross. $6000 gross. "u abused" should be "excluding a very small percentage abused by their employers". And Romania has a fixed 10% tax rate so the higher you go, the more you benefit from it. So IT folks keep a lot of their salary.
alin23 5y ago
When I got my first job as a Junior Malware Researcher, I was earning $422 per month. That times 7 is exactly the cost of the MacBook Pro I got (1TB SSD, 16GB RAM) Yes, I live in Romania, and salaries have been increasing a bit but they're still a joke for junior devs.
- GekkePrutser 5y ago
  I know, we moved all our European call center operations there in my last job. The low wages are a big attraction for companies. I felt bad that we were paying so little though the people working there didn't seem to mind. For most it was their first job. But it surprised me that wages are that low. Also, Romanians tend to have excellent language skills in most Latin languages and English so that helps a lot too. They're also really friendly in my experience. I would notice that when I walked around the office people talking among themselves would often switch to English when I was near them so I wouldn't feel left out. And they'd always ask me to join them if I went for lunch alone. And I'm not even a manager :) I was just there to do the technical side.
  - BurningFrog 5y ago
    > the people working there didn't seem to mind It's good to remember that, for those people, this is the best job they could get!
    - cto_of_antifa 5y ago
      Which still isn’t a good argument for underpaying them. It just means you can get away with it in that market
- frogpelt 5y ago
  Off topic a bit: Your website is one of the nicest I've seen in a long time.
- quicklime 5y ago
  It always blows my mind when I compare the value of my company's MacBook Pros to the salaries of our offshore developers. Having said that, when I look at a fully spec'd out Mac Pro, it comes out to $54,000. Add in a fully spec'd out Pro Display XDR, which is another $7k, and that's $61k. According to levels.fyi, L3/E3/ICT2 SWEs at Google/Facebook/Apple get a salary of ~$130k, so just under 6 months of an American junior developer FAANG salary.
908B64B197 5y ago
I can't get a Mac Pro high enough it's 7 months of junior developer salary. Was it a typo?
aiisjustanif 5y ago
ITT: People learn than devs starting out in Eastern Europe can make under $500-1k a month net pay.

wil421 5y ago

The resume on the blog says University of Lasi. Google returned something about Romania so is assume that’s where he is.

vmladenov 5y ago
No need to assume. The third paragraph of the article says he lives in Romania
- wil421 5y ago
  Thanks. It also explains the high price. > living in a country like Romania means incredibly high prices on everything Apple.
ddalex 5y ago
Iasi, not Lasi, with a capital I, pronounced like [eeashee], major university centre in Northern Romania.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

IggleSniggle 5y ago

Dev says right at the top of the entry that they are writing from Romania. Quick Google shows an average software dev salary of 4800 USD per year. If that’s average, seems like 7x monthly of a junior salary checks out.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
visarga 5y ago
It's about 1500 USD/month which comes out around 18K/year
oblio 5y ago
The minimum net salary in Romania is about €280, which is about $360, which is about $500 net. So $6000 per year net. And no (u abused) junior dev is going to be making minimum salary, that's janitor salary.
- naniwaduni 5y ago
  > The minimum net salary in Romania is about €280, which is about $360, which is about $500 net. This looks like you double-converted, and and also at an exceptionally high exchange rate. And besides, we should probably be comparing euros directly to Apple's prices in euros, which, best I can tell, are in fact bigger numbers than their USD prices—the baseline offerings are listed at €1,449 and €1,679 (vs $1,299 and $1,499), and I can get the configurator up to €2,599, which puts us at a €370 monthly junior dev salary.
  - oblio 5y ago
    $500 gross. $6000 gross. "u abused" should be "excluding a very small percentage abused by their employers". And Romania has a fixed 10% tax rate so the higher you go, the more you benefit from it. So IT folks keep a lot of their salary.

alin23 5y ago

When I got my first job as a Junior Malware Researcher, I was earning $422 per month. That times 7 is exactly the cost of the MacBook Pro I got (1TB SSD, 16GB RAM) Yes, I live in Romania, and salaries have been increasing a bit but they're still a joke for junior devs.

GekkePrutser 5y ago
I know, we moved all our European call center operations there in my last job. The low wages are a big attraction for companies. I felt bad that we were paying so little though the people working there didn't seem to mind. For most it was their first job. But it surprised me that wages are that low. Also, Romanians tend to have excellent language skills in most Latin languages and English so that helps a lot too. They're also really friendly in my experience. I would notice that when I walked around the office people talking among themselves would often switch to English when I was near them so I wouldn't feel left out. And they'd always ask me to join them if I went for lunch alone. And I'm not even a manager :) I was just there to do the technical side.
- BurningFrog 5y ago
  > the people working there didn't seem to mind It's good to remember that, for those people, this is the best job they could get!
  - cto_of_antifa 5y ago
    Which still isn’t a good argument for underpaying them. It just means you can get away with it in that market
frogpelt 5y ago
Off topic a bit: Your website is one of the nicest I've seen in a long time.
quicklime 5y ago
It always blows my mind when I compare the value of my company's MacBook Pros to the salaries of our offshore developers. Having said that, when I look at a fully spec'd out Mac Pro, it comes out to $54,000. Add in a fully spec'd out Pro Display XDR, which is another $7k, and that's $61k. According to levels.fyi, L3/E3/ICT2 SWEs at Google/Facebook/Apple get a salary of ~$130k, so just under 6 months of an American junior developer FAANG salary.

908B64B197 5y ago

I can't get a Mac Pro high enough it's 7 months of junior developer salary. Was it a typo?

aiisjustanif 5y ago

ITT: People learn than devs starting out in Eastern Europe can make under $500-1k a month net pay.