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Hong Kong crowd booing China's anthem sparks police probe
- HeckFeck 5y agoSilly police. This noise actually signifies jubilation and support for the General Secretary of the CCP; it's just a cultural difference between HK and the mainland.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- King-Aaron 5y ago"They're saying Boo-urns"
- BLKNSLVR 5y agoPeace among worlds
- strogonoff 5y ago> Critics say those freedoms are now under threat with China's recent moves and the UK has accused China of flouting the terms of its handover agreement, but China denies this. To be more precise, last year or so Chinese government has issued a statement (on record, googleable) that HK handover agreement is not valid/recognized by them. So far there had been no consequences.
- woah 5y agoIn 1997, Britain should have handed Hong Kong over to it's rightful owner, the Republic Of China.
- mosseater 5y agoThe Republic of China are a nation of people that ran away and started their own place after the PRC drove them out. Putting whether China is the rightful owner of Taiwan aside, that's a lot of politics and back and forth. But how would Taiwan be the rightful owner of Hong Kong in any case?
- baby 5y agoAt least they would have been culturally closer and the integration would have been less bloody.
- tomjen3 5y agoIf we assume RoC is the rightful government for China as a whole, it stands to reason that they are also the rightful owner of Hong Kong, no? And since one is a democratic government and the other is a totalitarian state actively comiting genocide, then I know whom I would want as my government.
- emodendroket 5y agoBut the question of whom you would want has nothing to do with who is the "rightful owner" or the one who enjoys the support of the people they claim to govern.
- BLKNSLVR 5y ago"rightful owner" is a funny ol' concept. Basically, whichever power is able to hold it at the time is essentially the "rightful owner". I can't seem to get past this nihilism as the correct answer.
- GauntletWizard 5y agoThere are two theories of government: One says that they rule by divine right, the other says that they rule by the consent of the governed. One does not recognize human rights, the other does. I know which one I want to live under; I hope that those that argue the other never have the misfortune of experiencing their wish.
- muststopmyths 5y agoUnfortunately Taiwan was unable to accomdate all the outsourced manufacturing from the West.
- emodendroket 5y agoThe only reason they handed it over at all is their lease on the New Territories ended in 1997 and it was impossible to defend or administer Hong Kong without them. Even if you are convinced that they are the "rightful owners" of the territory, the ROC probably wouldn't find any better way to square that circle than the British would, and it seems less like a gift than an albatross to give it to them and ask them to try.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- Retric 5y agoIf PRC was the same mess it was in the 50’s they could have ignored them without issue. The problem for the UK was they had something to lose from offending China and it was a politically tricky situation domestically. They needed to hand HK to someone and doing what was best for HK was never a serious consideration.
- emodendroket 5y agoI mean, sure, they probably could push around a weak state in violation of international law more easily; that's how they ended up administering the territory in the first place. I can't see what that implies though; the situation would have been just as sticky for cross-Strait relations if not more so.
- enriquto 5y ago> Britain should have handed Hong Kong over to it's rightful owner, the Republic Of China. LOL, just squirted the tea through my nose. That would have been an epic troll move. Unfortunately (for HK) the british empire had long lost its spine by that time and could only bully tiny nations, not powerful ones.
- mongol 5y agoWas this seriously discussed or considered? I never heard it mentioned before.
- ksec 5y agoUS does not support any idea other than handover. It is called handover in English, but somehow in Chinese it is return to china or hand back to china. Subtle but substantial difference. ( Only New Territories belongs to the them, not Kowloon or HK Island ) Deng Xiaoping also made it explicitly clear, hand it back or soldiers will cross border. If they dare to hand it over to ROC, they might as well kept it themselves.
- UIZealot 5y ago> It is called handover in English, but somehow in Chinese it is return to china or hand back to china. The UK recognizes the PRC as the successor regime of China, and thus the rightful owner of all that's due of the UK to China under the various treaties between them. Somehow? That's how. > Only New Territories belongs to the them, not Kowloon or HK Island Kowloon and HK Island had always been Chinese territory. The British defeated China in a series of wars, mostly for the right to sell opium in China, and took them as spoils. When China became strong enough to defeat the British, they wanted them back, and there's nothing the British could do except handing them back. Funny how that worked out, wasn't it? My advice? Read up a little on history.
- ksec 5y ago>My advice? Read up a little on history. >Kowloon and HK Island had always been Chinese territory. What, You mean the Qing Dynasty? My advice? Read up a little on history. Oh wait..
- UIZealot 5y agoJust as I suspected, you did know the history, you were just feigning ignorance. So I suspect you do know the relevant internation laws as well. But allow me to quote myself: > The UK recognizes the PRC as the successor regime of China, and thus the rightful owner of all that's due of the UK to China under the various treaties between them. You are free to live in your make-believe world in which Kowloon and HK island were never part of China. The rest of us? We live in the real world.
- skissane 5y agoThe problem with that is that the UK had been one of the first Western nations to recognise PRC, all the way back in 1950. I think in hindsight, this was a big mistake on UK's part. Not that they shouldn't have recognised PRC eventually, but they should have held off doing so and extracted greater concessions in exchange. They gave away one of their biggest pieces of leverage at the very start of the game.
- TheEastIsRed 5y ago> the UK has accused China of flouting the terms of its handover agreement, but China denies this. The UK invaded China to push heroin and opium on the Chinese, and now thinks it has the right to demand how a Chinese city is run. The height of western imperial arrogance, it's hilarious to see all the white professionals here, working from home in their segregated neighborhoods talking about pushing for the return of western domain over Chinese cities for "humanitarian reasons".
- mountainriver 5y agoPeople had a lot more freedom
- robbedpeter 5y agoOh please. The communist party in China makes the nazis look like toddlers in the scope of death and suffering inflicted on people. The long defunct historical events you cite are a dilute drop of tears in the ocean of blood staining the hands of communist government over the last 70 years. The simple fact of the matter is that Hong Kong had been living under the hope of a free and liberal democratic future. Mainland China, like all failing and flailing communist dictatorships before, cannot tolerate even the appearance of dissent, and they crushed that hope for a bright future. Mainland China has made ugly and petty a once beautiful and proud city. The Chinese communist party is evil. If the moral arc of the universe swings toward justice, the CPC will end. The only question is if they'll take the rest of us with them when it's time to fall. China is the country most intent on driving the world to nuclear confrontation. They could have chosen mercy and justice and civilization, holding their citizens high as examples of human achievement. At every opportunity, they choose otherwise, crushing everything human and wise with their cruel folly. You have no high horse, you can stop with the coconut sound effects.
- UIZealot 5y agoHave you been to, read about, or seen any news about China in the last, oh I don't know, 50 years? Or did you make up your mind about China during the height of the Cold War era and you're never going to change it no matter what?
- xster 5y agoAre you referring to something specific?
- strogonoff 5y ago> China said on Friday the joint declaration with Britain over Hong Kong, which laid the blueprint over how the city would be ruled after its return to China in 1997, was a historical document that no longer had any practical significance. … Lu told reporters during a regular briefing on Friday that the document no longer binds China. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-hongkong-anniversary-china-idUSKBN19L1J1 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-hongkong-anniversary-chin... This was all the way back in 2017, my bad.
- lmilcin 5y agoI find the lack of understanding of what is happening a little bit baffling (and comic at times). We are used to living in countries where people have rights. We have constitutions which guarantee citizen these rights and make the governments subservient to the population. Our government is elected by the people directly or indirectly and technically works for us. This is not the case with China. In China, people have no innate rights. Any rights they have, are given by the ruling body, whether it is an emperor or its continuation, the CCP. For China, what they are doing in Hong Kong is completely normal. They have been doing the same to their own mainland population for thousands of years and the changeovers from monarchy to communist party is basically cosmetic. China does not recognize Human Rights and so it is difficult to say they are "breaking" them. It is a construct we made for ourselves in countries that technically the people are governing themselves (ie democracies). This is an abstract concept in China. Just as if Iran started accusing Canada of breaking Sharia. Now, don't get me wrong, I am not absolving China of the crimes they are committing. Just because something is legal in China doesn't mean it is not a crime. We can and we should react to this and try to bring basic rights to Chinese people. But it is much more complex and delicate problem than people try to make it.
- haswell 5y ago> China does not recognize Human Rights and so it is difficult to say they are "breaking" them. Whether or not China recognizes human rights doesn’t have any bearing on whether or not they are breaking them. The international community recognizes human rights at least on some level, and it’s not particularly useful to use China’s perspective as a lens here any more than it would be useful to judge other atrocities throughout history through the eyes of the perpetrators. Edit: Adding [0] for consideration as some responses seem unaware. - [0] https://www.un.org/en/about-us/universal-declaration-of-human-rights https://www.un.org/en/about-us/universal-declaration-of-huma...
- lmilcin 5y agoThis is poor logic, even if we agree on the ultimate result. > Whether or not China recognizes human rights doesn’t have any bearing on whether or not they are breaking them. "Whether or not your country recognizes Sharia doesn't have any bearing on whether or not you are breaking it and you should be prosecuted for breaking it." See how stupid your logic sounds when it is told from another perspective? If you want to fight for something at least try to understand what makes you right and the other one wrong.
- underseacables 5y agoI fear that West Taiwan is going to invade East Taiwan, and it’s going to happen while the President of the United States is bumbling his way through another press conference. I think it’s highly likely that China views the United States is very weak right now, and they may take this decision to invade.
- password321 5y agoChina is a threat to the world. They have North Korea in their back pocket, they put their own citizens into concentration camps and are rapidly on the move to expand their territory. We can also mention being the biggest threat to the environment, spying, Covid and a lot more. the bottom line is that something needs to be done.
- matheusmoreira 5y agoNot enough of a threat for the western world to cut them off. Until everyone stops trading with them, they'll keep getting richer and developing themselves.
- emodendroket 5y agoDon't be shy. What is it that you think needs to be done?
- redis_mlc 5y ago1) Continue Trump/Pompeo trade and financial sanctions, including delisting all 1,000 Chinese companies from US stock markets. (BRI and many other CCP schemes are funded with US capital.) Remove Biden's Chief of Staff, who is/was a CCP lobbyist. 2) Decouple the West from China, including sending their 340,000 students/spies home. 3) Assist Japan to build 500 nuclear weapons. 4) Develop laser weapons capable of sinking China's 20,000 ships. 5) Give each of our Indo-Pacific allies 50 quiet submarines. See what's left of the CCP, and start a new todo list.
- l332mn 5y agoChina has around 1/5'th of the emissions per capita compared to western countries. It's western countries that are a threat to the environment. China is also the largest investor in green technology globally. Are you aware of Snowden's leaks? Of Wikileaks? US military and intelligence is active and aggressive around the entire globe. China is not. Through direct action and funding of terrorist groups, the US is responsible for the death and displacement of tens of millions innocent people in the middle-east and Africa just for the past few decades. The US government is a much bigger threat than the rest of the world combined. China managed the spread of Covid within their borders in an excellent manner. Many western countries had a catastrophically bad reaction to the pandemic with many millions dead. Only a handful dead compared to literally millions? Who's the biggest threat to human lives during pandemics? Your kind of sentiment is extremely hypocritical and ignorant. I think something needs to be done about this kind of ignorance.
- kaminar 5y agoIsn't Mongolia the rightful owner of mainland China? If we're going back 100 yrs, why not 800?
- snomad 5y agoI wonder how long until Taiwan, Japan, and South Korea develop nuclear weapons. Won't be good for the world, but can't blame them.
- pinewurst 5y agohttps://isis-online.org/books/detail/taiwans-former-nuclear-weapons-program-nuclear-weapons-on-demand https://isis-online.org/books/detail/taiwans-former-nuclear-...
- redis_mlc 5y agoJapan is said to already have a design, and thanks to their space program has ballistic missiles that work very well. And Obama's treaty violation over the Scarborough Shoals (9-dashed line) seizure by the CCP, dispute over the Senanu Islands and recent threats from the CCP to "continously nuke Japan if they aid Taiwan", Japan knows what has to be done.
- f0xytr0xy 5y agoHistory has shown that there is absolutely nothing the CCP can do to provoke the west to care more about the freedom of Chinese citizens than we do about thr availability of cheap goods for consumers. Xi could literally kill 60m of its own peoples, and the west wouldn’t even declare sanctions.