9 ms·

Don't get me started on the smear campaign started years ago by probably competitors, all figs are 100% vegan foods, there is no scientific proof that there is

Don't get me started on the smear campaign started years ago by probably competitors, all figs are 100% vegan foods, there is no scientific proof that there is "wasp biomass" in there. We are not talking about a regular wasp, but an ant sized one, small enough that can fit in from the flowers lentil sized opening. Their wings are dropped upon entering. They get trapped and consumed by the tree.

agucova 5y ago
I'm confused, so you admitted that a wasp enters but there's still no biomass? Does the wasp just go out again?
- spoonjim 5y ago
  The wasp is completely digested. Does my car’s gas tank contain dinosaur biomass? Not really, it’s been chemically transformed.
  - agucova 5y ago
    To be fair, "dinosaur biomass" would be innacurate, but "biomass-derived fuel" is a perfectly fine description that you'll find in a lot of places.
    - micheljansen 5y ago
      By that logic what would you call manure? Vegans are going to have a very hard time this way!
      - dTal 5y ago
        A) manure is plant biomass, not animal B) anyway, you don't eat manure C) anyway, vegans are fine with figs so the whole thing is a strawman
        atombender 5y ago
        Nitpick: Most manure used in agriculture is primarily composed of animal feces, which isn't strictly made of just plant matter.
        bagacrap 5y ago
        Vegans avoid any animal products, not just the animal's flesh. They don't want any animals held captive. Manure is definitely an animal by-product and it's collected from domesticated animals, so manure is not vegan in the same way a facial cream derived from milk would not be vegan. I don't really know to what extent manure is used to fertilize these days though.
- planetis 5y ago
  Wasp or no wasp (...but there is really none, nada, zilch it's impossible to trace kapish?), lot's of flowers pollinate with the help of insects. I don't feel like it's coincidental these "there is wasp in your figs" articles appear, right before harvest season. Those who can't match the quality of your product, well they try with dirty ways to smear it.
  - sunshineforever 5y ago
    Its definitely possible, however I think also that journalists (and people in general) lately have become more aware of the seasonality of everything. Seasonal articles will also get a slight boost during their time so people are encouraged to write them.
    - planetis 5y ago
      Makes sense, thanks for your insight!
- pvaldes 5y ago
  Ok, I will explain it. All figs are 100% omnivorous food and -- Some -- figs are 100% vegan food. (Lets pretend that all this birds entangled and shoot never existed). And I'm saying some, but not all. The varieties of Ficus carica can be classified in four groups if I remember correctly. Figs in the so called 'common' group don't need to be pollinated. Can be cultivated in areas too cold in winter for the wasp to survive (like Germany, UK or even Sweden) so is a popular one and often seen in markets. This could be tagged as genuinely "100% vegan". You can do a thousand studies on then and "prove" that figs never, ever, have insects inside, but you would be just lying to yourself and your customers. Because the real hot stuff in figs are the 'Smyrna group', that always involve the death of several animals (that are stolen to nature by people and put there deliberately to die. Definitely not vegan friendly kind of stuff). Figs in the groups 'Smyrna', 'San Pedro' or 'San Antonio' will hold the remains of a few of those animals. Period. But those figs are also much better in complexity of flavor, crunchy texture, and better nutritionally also so the sacrifice was not in vain. Those are the famous figs breed in warm places like Greece or Turkey.
yosito 5y ago
I will never understand people who are so vegan that they wouldn't even eat biomass from an insect that naturally died. Why? Do such people also refuse to travel in any vehicles? Where do they draw the line at how small an organism has to be?
- dTal 5y ago
  Have you ever met such a person?
  - yosito 5y ago
    Yes, I've had both a coworker and a housemate lecture me about how they are vegan so they won't consume or use anything that involves dead insects.
  - stronglikedan 5y ago
    Yup! Plenty. I even dated one for a couple months, trying to give her the benefit of the doubt. She actually ended it over something I said (not even did) jokingly, that was equally as ridiculous as this fig wasp thing. I sure did dodge that bullet.
- TeMPOraL 5y ago
  It's not a consistent position in any way. After all, they still eat food. Insects are many, they're small, and they're everywhere. Between growing, harvesting, processing, transporting, putting on store shelves, buying, transporting home, and putting in the fridge, you can bet that any piece of produce is highly likely to have dead insect pieces on it, or in it. It's like people don't realize what the biosphere is made of. It's not a magical land where living things frolic - it's a dense soup of things that live, and things that once lived. The soil in which we grow our food is made of dead bodies mixed with sand, infused with nanobots that forever try to recycle the carcasses into more living things. No, worrying about insect biomass is not the best thing to ground your ethical framework around. Otherwise, you'd best not breathe - the air is full of dead bodies too.
- ekianjo 5y ago
  Vegans should avoid tomato juice too because there is always a certain percentage of insects mixed in it too. That is part of acceptable processes in the food industry.
Mordisquitos 5y ago
I think it is to fall into a trap to argue whether figs are "100% vegan" or not. The real problem is the quasi-religious approach that some unfortunately vociferous people follow with regards to many personal decisions, in such a way that the end goal of pursuing a moral principle is co-opted by a simplistic totalitarian interpretation of the rules, with the need to follow them perfectly as a sign of purity. There is no such thing as a "vegan food", be it figs, honey, or lettuce. What does exist are vegan values, and their end goal is to reduce suffering of sentient beings and to have no part in promoting it by exploiting them or consuming products which do. Arguing whether there is any wasp biomass in figs should be irrelevant to veganism. What should matter is whether wasps are suffering and being exploited because we eat figs. I believe not, but what do I know, I am not a vegan.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- imtringued 5y ago
  This isn't a vegan thing, it's just the nirvana fallacy and it is everywhere.
  - Mordisquitos 5y ago
    Yes, I agree. That's why I described it in broad terms in my first paragraph, because it happens across all sorts of personal beliefs and identities.
- simondotau 5y ago
  As someone who is not a vegan I think this is a very well written, concise summary of the distinction. I appreciated the clarity. Personally I am not swayed by veganism because I think the concept of suffering is oversimplified. In my view, suffering is better described as cognitive awareness of the situation causing pain or distress. Being mauled to death by a leopard is far more likely to cause suffering than a cow being walked into an abattoir—because the cow has no concept of an abattoir. A cow spends 18 months in a field living a generally quite nice life. In its last moments there is momentary discomfort as it is knocked unconscious by an explosive bolt to the head. Is this moment of discomfort so intolerable, so ruinous of the animal's prior worth, that it's better if it never existed in the first place? In my opinion, this conclusion is absurd to the point of being weird. I say this as someone who has personally experienced the sensation of been knocked unconscious by a severe blow to the head; in my case caused by an involuntary backwards fall towards the ground. I did not "suffer" at all until after I woke up with a headache. Had this strike to the head proved fatal, I can't imagine how I could have suffered at all. There are many aspects of the animal food industry which are cruel and should be made illegal. There are many aspects of the animal food industry which have serious externalities that are bad for human civilisation. But this doesn't make absolutism the moral high ground.
isoprophlex 5y ago
I wonder if these people who apparently get pissed off about """wasp biomass""" only consume vegetables grown on 100% dead-insect-free biomass... What an idiotic thing to get worked up about.
- libertine 5y ago
  "These people" seem to be more a construct of some people collective imagination.
  - planetis 5y ago
    If you search online for articles in many different languages, going like "you wouldn't believe whats inside there, you will never eat this again", spreading fud you would think like me something is up.
    - libertine 5y ago
      So articles with click bait titles that pop up on some keywords define a group of people? The only "vegan propaganda" I recall is displaying slaughter houses and intensive animal farming, which is disgusting and probably will be looked down with shame and disgust later by future generations. "We did that to animals?" will probably be popping in children minds, that are yet to be born. History will tell. I for once believe that in places where you buy meat there shouldn't be images of animals grazing in green fields, but actual footage and images of them being fed and slaughtered - at least people will see the real cost of eating so much meat. Maybe people would avoid those places more, and would have more consideration for every time they buy a piece of meat. It worked with tobacco, when images of the damages of smoking were introduced on packs in some countries. I saw pigs and cows being killed as a kid, it's not fun or entertaining. A pig screeching it's a sound that gets engraved in your mind. PS: I'm not vegan, but I'm increasingly dropping the amount of meat I eat for the past 5 years.
getlawgdon 5y ago
The article indicates that there is scientific evidence (and specific study) of wasp biomass in the fig.
ivanhoe 5y ago
I don't get the problem even if there is a wasp in it, why would any vegan be upset about it? Wasp is dead, ended up there 100% naturally, died naturally, has no specific taste - what practical/medical/ethical/philosophical issue one can possibly have with eating it accidentally? What about eating other organic fruits then that almost always have worms in it, like plums or cherries or apples? Do vegans avoid that too? What about misc flours or coco powder that always have some percent of insect parts in them? Do people really obsess about things like that?
- pvaldes 5y ago
  > what practical/medical/ethical/philosophical issue one can possibly have with eating it accidentally? 0,0001% 'holier-than-thou' extra points. Is a race for power in the olympic purity games. "I'm better than you" is the goal. Not more, not less.

agucova 5y ago

I'm confused, so you admitted that a wasp enters but there's still no biomass? Does the wasp just go out again?

spoonjim 5y ago
The wasp is completely digested. Does my car’s gas tank contain dinosaur biomass? Not really, it’s been chemically transformed.
- agucova 5y ago
  To be fair, "dinosaur biomass" would be innacurate, but "biomass-derived fuel" is a perfectly fine description that you'll find in a lot of places.
  - micheljansen 5y ago
    By that logic what would you call manure? Vegans are going to have a very hard time this way!
    - dTal 5y ago
      A) manure is plant biomass, not animal B) anyway, you don't eat manure C) anyway, vegans are fine with figs so the whole thing is a strawman
      - atombender 5y ago
        Nitpick: Most manure used in agriculture is primarily composed of animal feces, which isn't strictly made of just plant matter.
      - bagacrap 5y ago
        Vegans avoid any animal products, not just the animal's flesh. They don't want any animals held captive. Manure is definitely an animal by-product and it's collected from domesticated animals, so manure is not vegan in the same way a facial cream derived from milk would not be vegan. I don't really know to what extent manure is used to fertilize these days though.
planetis 5y ago
Wasp or no wasp (...but there is really none, nada, zilch it's impossible to trace kapish?), lot's of flowers pollinate with the help of insects. I don't feel like it's coincidental these "there is wasp in your figs" articles appear, right before harvest season. Those who can't match the quality of your product, well they try with dirty ways to smear it.
- sunshineforever 5y ago
  Its definitely possible, however I think also that journalists (and people in general) lately have become more aware of the seasonality of everything. Seasonal articles will also get a slight boost during their time so people are encouraged to write them.
  - planetis 5y ago
    Makes sense, thanks for your insight!
pvaldes 5y ago
Ok, I will explain it. All figs are 100% omnivorous food and -- Some -- figs are 100% vegan food. (Lets pretend that all this birds entangled and shoot never existed). And I'm saying some, but not all. The varieties of Ficus carica can be classified in four groups if I remember correctly. Figs in the so called 'common' group don't need to be pollinated. Can be cultivated in areas too cold in winter for the wasp to survive (like Germany, UK or even Sweden) so is a popular one and often seen in markets. This could be tagged as genuinely "100% vegan". You can do a thousand studies on then and "prove" that figs never, ever, have insects inside, but you would be just lying to yourself and your customers. Because the real hot stuff in figs are the 'Smyrna group', that always involve the death of several animals (that are stolen to nature by people and put there deliberately to die. Definitely not vegan friendly kind of stuff). Figs in the groups 'Smyrna', 'San Pedro' or 'San Antonio' will hold the remains of a few of those animals. Period. But those figs are also much better in complexity of flavor, crunchy texture, and better nutritionally also so the sacrifice was not in vain. Those are the famous figs breed in warm places like Greece or Turkey.

yosito 5y ago

I will never understand people who are so vegan that they wouldn't even eat biomass from an insect that naturally died. Why? Do such people also refuse to travel in any vehicles? Where do they draw the line at how small an organism has to be?

dTal 5y ago
Have you ever met such a person?
- yosito 5y ago
  Yes, I've had both a coworker and a housemate lecture me about how they are vegan so they won't consume or use anything that involves dead insects.
- stronglikedan 5y ago
  Yup! Plenty. I even dated one for a couple months, trying to give her the benefit of the doubt. She actually ended it over something I said (not even did) jokingly, that was equally as ridiculous as this fig wasp thing. I sure did dodge that bullet.
TeMPOraL 5y ago
It's not a consistent position in any way. After all, they still eat food. Insects are many, they're small, and they're everywhere. Between growing, harvesting, processing, transporting, putting on store shelves, buying, transporting home, and putting in the fridge, you can bet that any piece of produce is highly likely to have dead insect pieces on it, or in it. It's like people don't realize what the biosphere is made of. It's not a magical land where living things frolic - it's a dense soup of things that live, and things that once lived. The soil in which we grow our food is made of dead bodies mixed with sand, infused with nanobots that forever try to recycle the carcasses into more living things. No, worrying about insect biomass is not the best thing to ground your ethical framework around. Otherwise, you'd best not breathe - the air is full of dead bodies too.
ekianjo 5y ago
Vegans should avoid tomato juice too because there is always a certain percentage of insects mixed in it too. That is part of acceptable processes in the food industry.

Mordisquitos 5y ago

I think it is to fall into a trap to argue whether figs are "100% vegan" or not. The real problem is the quasi-religious approach that some unfortunately vociferous people follow with regards to many personal decisions, in such a way that the end goal of pursuing a moral principle is co-opted by a simplistic totalitarian interpretation of the rules, with the need to follow them perfectly as a sign of purity. There is no such thing as a "vegan food", be it figs, honey, or lettuce. What does exist are vegan values, and their end goal is to reduce suffering of sentient beings and to have no part in promoting it by exploiting them or consuming products which do. Arguing whether there is any wasp biomass in figs should be irrelevant to veganism. What should matter is whether wasps are suffering and being exploited because we eat figs. I believe not, but what do I know, I am not a vegan.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
imtringued 5y ago
This isn't a vegan thing, it's just the nirvana fallacy and it is everywhere.
- Mordisquitos 5y ago
  Yes, I agree. That's why I described it in broad terms in my first paragraph, because it happens across all sorts of personal beliefs and identities.
simondotau 5y ago
As someone who is not a vegan I think this is a very well written, concise summary of the distinction. I appreciated the clarity. Personally I am not swayed by veganism because I think the concept of suffering is oversimplified. In my view, suffering is better described as cognitive awareness of the situation causing pain or distress. Being mauled to death by a leopard is far more likely to cause suffering than a cow being walked into an abattoir—because the cow has no concept of an abattoir. A cow spends 18 months in a field living a generally quite nice life. In its last moments there is momentary discomfort as it is knocked unconscious by an explosive bolt to the head. Is this moment of discomfort so intolerable, so ruinous of the animal's prior worth, that it's better if it never existed in the first place? In my opinion, this conclusion is absurd to the point of being weird. I say this as someone who has personally experienced the sensation of been knocked unconscious by a severe blow to the head; in my case caused by an involuntary backwards fall towards the ground. I did not "suffer" at all until after I woke up with a headache. Had this strike to the head proved fatal, I can't imagine how I could have suffered at all. There are many aspects of the animal food industry which are cruel and should be made illegal. There are many aspects of the animal food industry which have serious externalities that are bad for human civilisation. But this doesn't make absolutism the moral high ground.

isoprophlex 5y ago

I wonder if these people who apparently get pissed off about """wasp biomass""" only consume vegetables grown on 100% dead-insect-free biomass... What an idiotic thing to get worked up about.

libertine 5y ago
"These people" seem to be more a construct of some people collective imagination.
- planetis 5y ago
  If you search online for articles in many different languages, going like "you wouldn't believe whats inside there, you will never eat this again", spreading fud you would think like me something is up.
  - libertine 5y ago
    So articles with click bait titles that pop up on some keywords define a group of people? The only "vegan propaganda" I recall is displaying slaughter houses and intensive animal farming, which is disgusting and probably will be looked down with shame and disgust later by future generations. "We did that to animals?" will probably be popping in children minds, that are yet to be born. History will tell. I for once believe that in places where you buy meat there shouldn't be images of animals grazing in green fields, but actual footage and images of them being fed and slaughtered - at least people will see the real cost of eating so much meat. Maybe people would avoid those places more, and would have more consideration for every time they buy a piece of meat. It worked with tobacco, when images of the damages of smoking were introduced on packs in some countries. I saw pigs and cows being killed as a kid, it's not fun or entertaining. A pig screeching it's a sound that gets engraved in your mind. PS: I'm not vegan, but I'm increasingly dropping the amount of meat I eat for the past 5 years.

getlawgdon 5y ago

The article indicates that there is scientific evidence (and specific study) of wasp biomass in the fig.

ivanhoe 5y ago

I don't get the problem even if there is a wasp in it, why would any vegan be upset about it? Wasp is dead, ended up there 100% naturally, died naturally, has no specific taste - what practical/medical/ethical/philosophical issue one can possibly have with eating it accidentally? What about eating other organic fruits then that almost always have worms in it, like plums or cherries or apples? Do vegans avoid that too? What about misc flours or coco powder that always have some percent of insect parts in them? Do people really obsess about things like that?

pvaldes 5y ago
> what practical/medical/ethical/philosophical issue one can possibly have with eating it accidentally? 0,0001% 'holier-than-thou' extra points. Is a race for power in the olympic purity games. "I'm better than you" is the goal. Not more, not less.