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I'm still amazed at how we lack both ergonomic and comfortable ways to use computers, it's usually just either one or the other, never both. Imagine a large pi

I'm still amazed at how we lack both ergonomic and comfortable ways to use computers, it's usually just either one or the other, never both. Imagine a large pillow that's shaped vaguely like human back should be when resting, which you could put on your bed to support your entire back, neck and head, at a slight incline. Then, add a keyboard support that can be moved around, alongside with one for mouse (or just a trackpad), as well as a VESA wall mount for a few monitors above the bed, angled so that you can look up at the screens directly, without putting too much strain on your eyes. Essentially, it'd be the bed version of this: https://altwork.com/ https://altwork.com/ And, because it'd be just a few pillows and some aluminum pieces for the mounts, it shouldn't break the bank like the linked item either. Otherwise, even with reminders to get up and walk around every hour, it always feels like my back is in the wrong position, regardless whether i'm sitting at a table with a chair, laying in bed with some pillows underneath or anything else. Even though i do stretches and daily exercise, the lack of truly ergonomic ways to work without having to constantly monitor my own posture (which will realistically never happen) feels like a detriment, or at least will become one in 20 years, when back issues start manifesting. So here's my question: why are people so obsessed with office chairs and why don't we have such pillows be more popular, or just don't put more thought into working from bed?

hyper_dynamics 5y ago
https://dekomilch.de/burodesign-2/bester-monitorstaender-hoehenverstellbar-neigbar-und-ergonomisch/ https://dekomilch.de/burodesign-2/bester-monitorstaender-hoe...
- KronisLV 5y ago
  Thanks for the link! 400 euros seems way better in regards to affordability! Here's a Google Translate link for anyone who isn't familiar with the German language: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https://dekomilch.de/burodesign-2/bester-monitorstaender-hoehenverstellbar-neigbar-und-ergonomisch/ https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https...
hsbauauvhabzb 5y ago
Subbing to this, in case somebody drops commercial or DIY bed monitor visa mounts or spine friendly bed pillows
- tpxl 5y ago
  You can save a comment on HN by clicking the comment timestamp then clicking favorite :)
birdyrooster 5y ago
Adjustable beds and over bed tables exist and people use them to do stuff from bed.
ganzuul 5y ago
The most capable and ergonomic interface device I have found is, after extensive configuration, the Steam Controller. For file management, web browsing and social media I don't really have to use a keyboard aside from typing, and in both modes my posture is symmetric. Transition to games is of course seamless. Sadly, it is no longer on the market but the community behind it expects a new model.
csomar 5y ago
Is $7k really expensive even for non-programming jobs? Assuming a 5-year lifespan, that comes at around $120/month which should be affordable to most of the developed world. I have another theory: The reason we didn't adopt such ergonomic setups is because they look "weird". We are quite used to sitting in chairs and it's not quite far from sitting on a rock. A customized ergonomic setup will pay itself in quite a short time.
- KronisLV 5y ago
  Yes, it is. For that same amount of money, in my country, i could purchase 2 used cars, or just buy food for about 3 years (without eating out), or pay rent for almost 2 years. Alternatively, such a setup would cost me almost 5 month's worth of net salaries (as a software developer in one of the countries that people outsource to) and that is before any additional shipping costs. Such setups might make sense for people in the 1st world countries with decent salaries, but for me and may others who live in Eastern Europe or other countries that aren't as financially advanced, that is still a considerable sum of money. As for your point in regards to looks - i somewhat agree, however i definitely wouldn't mind such a setup in a full remote working position. Especially when eventually coupled with some high quality VR headset that would provide a passable resolution for programming (essentially at least an effective resolution of 1280x720 per virtual screen). It might be a while until that becomes feasible, if ever, though.
  - oauea 5y ago
    > or pay rent for almost 2 years. What country is that?
    - KronisLV 5y ago
      Latvia. To give you some perspective, my current net salary is around 1500 euros per month ( the national average is a bit under 1000 https://tradingeconomics.com/latvia/wages https://tradingeconomics.com/latvia/wages ). Rent in an average small flat is around 300 euros, though could also reach 400 euros or more with heating expenses ( https://m.ss.lv/lv/real-estate/flats/riga/all/fDgTeF4RAzp4FD4eHTwT.html https://m.ss.lv/lv/real-estate/flats/riga/all/fDgTeF4RAzp4FD... some of these adverts list daily prices though ). Regardless, 7000 USD is around 5900 EUR, so 5900/300 = almost 20 months of rent covered. This also assumes no shipping costs, which might add a bit more.
zepolen 5y ago
This is almost my setup for years, except using a laptop with a hi-res 17" screen rested on my knees. I can sit in this position for hours on end without getting uncomfortable. I've tried out every office chair including the Aeron, they don't compare in any way. If I was forced to work from a chair, I'd get a $100 adjustable deck chair. I also found multiple monitors are very tiring on your head/eyes which need to be constantly moving between them which takes time and energy. Alt-tabbing is much quicker and as a bonus you're not gimped when forced to work from a single monitor/laptop while outside.
- KronisLV 5y ago
  I'm afraid that trying to compile an enterprise Java codebase with a laptop on my knees would be painful, since currently it maxes out all cores for a few minutes. A deck chair seems like an interesting idea, however! In regards to screens, I've found that 4 is still not enough for me - even some of them are stacked vertically with a DIY VESA mount and stand, so the movements end up being pretty limited and are more like the occasional gentle stretch. Then again, I'm the kind of person who likes to have multiple categorized browser instances open, text editors, IDEs, source control tools and terminals to the point where managing all of the windows would be a hassle. Workspaces could help, maybe even tiling window managers, but I think everyone has their own preferred workflows.
Tade0 5y ago
For the pillows I recommend pregnancy pillows - they're filled with some kind of small grains and adjust to your body perfectly, providing an amazing level of comfort.
exo762 5y ago
I've tried setup like this. I fall asleep immediately. It seems that I require some amount of discomfort to stay focused.

hyper_dynamics 5y ago

https://dekomilch.de/burodesign-2/bester-monitorstaender-hoehenverstellbar-neigbar-und-ergonomisch/ https://dekomilch.de/burodesign-2/bester-monitorstaender-hoe...

KronisLV 5y ago
Thanks for the link! 400 euros seems way better in regards to affordability! Here's a Google Translate link for anyone who isn't familiar with the German language: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https://dekomilch.de/burodesign-2/bester-monitorstaender-hoehenverstellbar-neigbar-und-ergonomisch/ https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https...

hsbauauvhabzb 5y ago

Subbing to this, in case somebody drops commercial or DIY bed monitor visa mounts or spine friendly bed pillows

tpxl 5y ago
You can save a comment on HN by clicking the comment timestamp then clicking favorite :)

birdyrooster 5y ago

Adjustable beds and over bed tables exist and people use them to do stuff from bed.

ganzuul 5y ago

The most capable and ergonomic interface device I have found is, after extensive configuration, the Steam Controller. For file management, web browsing and social media I don't really have to use a keyboard aside from typing, and in both modes my posture is symmetric. Transition to games is of course seamless. Sadly, it is no longer on the market but the community behind it expects a new model.

csomar 5y ago

Is $7k really expensive even for non-programming jobs? Assuming a 5-year lifespan, that comes at around $120/month which should be affordable to most of the developed world. I have another theory: The reason we didn't adopt such ergonomic setups is because they look "weird". We are quite used to sitting in chairs and it's not quite far from sitting on a rock. A customized ergonomic setup will pay itself in quite a short time.

KronisLV 5y ago
Yes, it is. For that same amount of money, in my country, i could purchase 2 used cars, or just buy food for about 3 years (without eating out), or pay rent for almost 2 years. Alternatively, such a setup would cost me almost 5 month's worth of net salaries (as a software developer in one of the countries that people outsource to) and that is before any additional shipping costs. Such setups might make sense for people in the 1st world countries with decent salaries, but for me and may others who live in Eastern Europe or other countries that aren't as financially advanced, that is still a considerable sum of money. As for your point in regards to looks - i somewhat agree, however i definitely wouldn't mind such a setup in a full remote working position. Especially when eventually coupled with some high quality VR headset that would provide a passable resolution for programming (essentially at least an effective resolution of 1280x720 per virtual screen). It might be a while until that becomes feasible, if ever, though.
- oauea 5y ago
  > or pay rent for almost 2 years. What country is that?
  - KronisLV 5y ago
    Latvia. To give you some perspective, my current net salary is around 1500 euros per month ( the national average is a bit under 1000 https://tradingeconomics.com/latvia/wages https://tradingeconomics.com/latvia/wages ). Rent in an average small flat is around 300 euros, though could also reach 400 euros or more with heating expenses ( https://m.ss.lv/lv/real-estate/flats/riga/all/fDgTeF4RAzp4FD4eHTwT.html https://m.ss.lv/lv/real-estate/flats/riga/all/fDgTeF4RAzp4FD... some of these adverts list daily prices though ). Regardless, 7000 USD is around 5900 EUR, so 5900/300 = almost 20 months of rent covered. This also assumes no shipping costs, which might add a bit more.

zepolen 5y ago

This is almost my setup for years, except using a laptop with a hi-res 17" screen rested on my knees. I can sit in this position for hours on end without getting uncomfortable. I've tried out every office chair including the Aeron, they don't compare in any way. If I was forced to work from a chair, I'd get a $100 adjustable deck chair. I also found multiple monitors are very tiring on your head/eyes which need to be constantly moving between them which takes time and energy. Alt-tabbing is much quicker and as a bonus you're not gimped when forced to work from a single monitor/laptop while outside.

KronisLV 5y ago
I'm afraid that trying to compile an enterprise Java codebase with a laptop on my knees would be painful, since currently it maxes out all cores for a few minutes. A deck chair seems like an interesting idea, however! In regards to screens, I've found that 4 is still not enough for me - even some of them are stacked vertically with a DIY VESA mount and stand, so the movements end up being pretty limited and are more like the occasional gentle stretch. Then again, I'm the kind of person who likes to have multiple categorized browser instances open, text editors, IDEs, source control tools and terminals to the point where managing all of the windows would be a hassle. Workspaces could help, maybe even tiling window managers, but I think everyone has their own preferred workflows.

Tade0 5y ago

For the pillows I recommend pregnancy pillows - they're filled with some kind of small grains and adjust to your body perfectly, providing an amazing level of comfort.

exo762 5y ago

I've tried setup like this. I fall asleep immediately. It seems that I require some amount of discomfort to stay focused.