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>returning to the forest Which is basically a myth at this point. For most of the last 5000 years most people have had a much lower quality of life than people

>returning to the forest Which is basically a myth at this point. For most of the last 5000 years most people have had a much lower quality of life than people do today. It's not like things were nice before we sat infront of computers all day.

Aeolun 5y ago
> It's not like things were nice before we sat infront of computers all day. But we didn’t have to sit in front of computers all day.
- ImaCake 5y ago
  A lot of people still don't! For those of us who do, WFH gives us a bit more flexibility about how we spend the time in front of a screen and maybe a chance to fit in exercise where there used to be a commute.
fogihujy 5y ago
It's not that life was living hell for everyone either. Plenty of people have lived comfortable lives throughout the ages -- it's just that there are far more of them nowadays. There's also still a lot of people who have troublesome lives, not to mention people living un-comfortable lives in front of a screen.
- joshuahedlund 5y ago
  > It's not that life was living hell for everyone either It's not really that much of an exaggeration. Significant percentages of women died in childbirth, young children died of diseases, and men died of violence. If you didn't, multiple people close to you did. Back-breaking manual labor for subsistence was the norm. Even the small minority who lived "comfortably" could randomly die from a tooth infection. It can be exaggerated to be sure, but I think it's even easier to discount the stunning drop in absolute poverty over the last two centuries because we've simply forgotten how terrible the old "normal" was. I highly recommend books like Enlightenment Now or Factfulness that do a great, detailed, and evidence-based job of driving this point home.
  - fogihujy 5y ago
    > It's not really that much of an exaggeration. But it _is_ an exaggeration. Child and maternal mortality rates was obviously higher back in the day, and social safety nets were mainly based on community and family rather than own savings or contributions like in modern Western society. On the other hand, there are still somewhat un-contacted and isolated tribes on multiple continents, and I've never heard anyone describe their life as hellish. Most of those tribes are perfectly aware that there is an outside world, and one would think they'd join the rest of us if things were _that_ bad. As it is now, it seems the situation is far worse for those who attempted to leave but failed to integrate into modern society. That being said, average quality of life does seem to have increased a lot the last 100 years. There's no doubt about that.
goodpoint 5y ago
> It's not like things were nice before we sat in front of computers all day. This might be true, technically, but often HN uses this point to dismiss any criticism of modern society and it use of technology.
- ImaCake 5y ago
  Thanks, this is a valid criticism of my point. I maintain that it is a bad idea that people had it better as hunter gathers considering it is not an option to return to the forest, and we are doing pretty well by sedentary settlement standards. But you are right that it is also a bad way to shut down valid arguments against the problems our technology has caused.

Aeolun 5y ago

> It's not like things were nice before we sat infront of computers all day. But we didn’t have to sit in front of computers all day.

ImaCake 5y ago
A lot of people still don't! For those of us who do, WFH gives us a bit more flexibility about how we spend the time in front of a screen and maybe a chance to fit in exercise where there used to be a commute.

fogihujy 5y ago

It's not that life was living hell for everyone either. Plenty of people have lived comfortable lives throughout the ages -- it's just that there are far more of them nowadays. There's also still a lot of people who have troublesome lives, not to mention people living un-comfortable lives in front of a screen.

joshuahedlund 5y ago
> It's not that life was living hell for everyone either It's not really that much of an exaggeration. Significant percentages of women died in childbirth, young children died of diseases, and men died of violence. If you didn't, multiple people close to you did. Back-breaking manual labor for subsistence was the norm. Even the small minority who lived "comfortably" could randomly die from a tooth infection. It can be exaggerated to be sure, but I think it's even easier to discount the stunning drop in absolute poverty over the last two centuries because we've simply forgotten how terrible the old "normal" was. I highly recommend books like Enlightenment Now or Factfulness that do a great, detailed, and evidence-based job of driving this point home.
- fogihujy 5y ago
  > It's not really that much of an exaggeration. But it _is_ an exaggeration. Child and maternal mortality rates was obviously higher back in the day, and social safety nets were mainly based on community and family rather than own savings or contributions like in modern Western society. On the other hand, there are still somewhat un-contacted and isolated tribes on multiple continents, and I've never heard anyone describe their life as hellish. Most of those tribes are perfectly aware that there is an outside world, and one would think they'd join the rest of us if things were _that_ bad. As it is now, it seems the situation is far worse for those who attempted to leave but failed to integrate into modern society. That being said, average quality of life does seem to have increased a lot the last 100 years. There's no doubt about that.

goodpoint 5y ago

> It's not like things were nice before we sat in front of computers all day. This might be true, technically, but often HN uses this point to dismiss any criticism of modern society and it use of technology.

ImaCake 5y ago
Thanks, this is a valid criticism of my point. I maintain that it is a bad idea that people had it better as hunter gathers considering it is not an option to return to the forest, and we are doing pretty well by sedentary settlement standards. But you are right that it is also a bad way to shut down valid arguments against the problems our technology has caused.