4 ms·

Although we should be careful not to lump everyone opposed to the current vaccines in with the anti-vaxers.

by epicureanideal 5y ago

mackwell 5y ago
Why?
- tekknik 5y ago
  Because some people have witnessed rushed vaccines first hand, some have the the test subject of other vaccines. Sometimes this doesn’t go well (see anthrax vax). So some of us want to wait to allow others to be the test subject. You definitely can’t count on a Dr telling you something is safe, it didn’t work out for us in the military there either.
Dylan16807 5y ago
How many people are opposed to all of the major covid vaccines, but are not anti-vaxers?
- majewsky 5y ago
  Anecdata: I've seen several people in my circle who have never identified as anti-vax in the past, who reject SARS-CoV-2 vaccines on the grounds of "they were made too quick, we didn't have enough time for testing". Of course this argument completely falls apart when you know how vaccine development works, but it's an argument that genuinely only applies to this specific group of vaccines.
  - acdha 5y ago
    This is where politicization is so dangerous: it’s reasonable to have questions in that regard but the odds of them getting bad advice go up massively when there’s a billion dollar propaganda machine pumping out false claims faster than they can be debunked. A share on Facebook or political news can take hours to reason through a concern, find the supporting evidence, etc. even if someone is available to help. My wife has done this with her biology students and it’s a really good education for how science works but it’s also a job.
  - tekknik 5y ago
    > Of course this argument completely falls apart when you know how vaccine development works, but it's an argument that genuinely only applies to this specific group of vaccines. So if this is true then there should be no testing period right? We should know out the gate if a vaccine is safe or not right? Clearly this is incorrect. If you like testing vaccines, join the military. Then let’s see after you’re injected with various chemicals and get a 100% disability from it if you feel the same way and attempt to force others into your line of thought.
    - Dylan16807 5y ago
      We're already past the testing period. The phase 3 trials of multiple vaccines are concluded and analyzed. The issue isn't people that didn't want early untested vaccines, it's people that ignore the test results to continue to not want them. Hopefully full FDA approval helps, as the process gets through the bureaucracy.
      - tekknik 5y ago
        > We're already past the testing period. The phase 3 trials of multiple vaccines are concluded and analyzed. From the FAQ on the Pfizer vax: "The Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine is an unapproved vaccine..." "The Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine has not undergone the same type of review as an FDA-approved or cleared product. FDA may issue an EUA when certain criteria are met, which includes that there are no adequate, approved, available alternatives. In addition, the FDA decision is based on the totality of scientific evidence available showing that the product may be effective to prevent COVID-19 during the COVID-19 pandemic and that the known and potential benefits of the product outweigh the known and potential risks of the product...." Not to mention this trial period along with vaccine development was accelerated. Also, from actual mouths of those hesitant, the reason is mostly gov mistrust. Which is yet again another problem of this divide dems have been building.
        Dylan16807 5y ago
        Correct, the approval is not complete yet. I said that in my last comment. But the testing is done on some. You can go read the results, or have an expert read them for you. For example: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2034577 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2034577 Isn't that the better option anyway, if you don't trust the government?
emodendroket 5y ago
Divisions within a group are always more interesting to members than outsiders.

Although we should be careful not to lump everyone opposed to the current vaccines in with the anti-vaxers.

mackwell 5y ago

Why?

tekknik 5y ago
Because some people have witnessed rushed vaccines first hand, some have the the test subject of other vaccines. Sometimes this doesn’t go well (see anthrax vax). So some of us want to wait to allow others to be the test subject. You definitely can’t count on a Dr telling you something is safe, it didn’t work out for us in the military there either.

Dylan16807 5y ago

How many people are opposed to all of the major covid vaccines, but are not anti-vaxers?

majewsky 5y ago
Anecdata: I've seen several people in my circle who have never identified as anti-vax in the past, who reject SARS-CoV-2 vaccines on the grounds of "they were made too quick, we didn't have enough time for testing". Of course this argument completely falls apart when you know how vaccine development works, but it's an argument that genuinely only applies to this specific group of vaccines.
- acdha 5y ago
  This is where politicization is so dangerous: it’s reasonable to have questions in that regard but the odds of them getting bad advice go up massively when there’s a billion dollar propaganda machine pumping out false claims faster than they can be debunked. A share on Facebook or political news can take hours to reason through a concern, find the supporting evidence, etc. even if someone is available to help. My wife has done this with her biology students and it’s a really good education for how science works but it’s also a job.
- tekknik 5y ago
  > Of course this argument completely falls apart when you know how vaccine development works, but it's an argument that genuinely only applies to this specific group of vaccines. So if this is true then there should be no testing period right? We should know out the gate if a vaccine is safe or not right? Clearly this is incorrect. If you like testing vaccines, join the military. Then let’s see after you’re injected with various chemicals and get a 100% disability from it if you feel the same way and attempt to force others into your line of thought.
  - Dylan16807 5y ago
    We're already past the testing period. The phase 3 trials of multiple vaccines are concluded and analyzed. The issue isn't people that didn't want early untested vaccines, it's people that ignore the test results to continue to not want them. Hopefully full FDA approval helps, as the process gets through the bureaucracy.
    - tekknik 5y ago
      > We're already past the testing period. The phase 3 trials of multiple vaccines are concluded and analyzed. From the FAQ on the Pfizer vax: "The Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine is an unapproved vaccine..." "The Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine has not undergone the same type of review as an FDA-approved or cleared product. FDA may issue an EUA when certain criteria are met, which includes that there are no adequate, approved, available alternatives. In addition, the FDA decision is based on the totality of scientific evidence available showing that the product may be effective to prevent COVID-19 during the COVID-19 pandemic and that the known and potential benefits of the product outweigh the known and potential risks of the product...." Not to mention this trial period along with vaccine development was accelerated. Also, from actual mouths of those hesitant, the reason is mostly gov mistrust. Which is yet again another problem of this divide dems have been building.
      - Dylan16807 5y ago
        Correct, the approval is not complete yet. I said that in my last comment. But the testing is done on some. You can go read the results, or have an expert read them for you. For example: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2034577 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2034577 Isn't that the better option anyway, if you don't trust the government?

emodendroket 5y ago

Divisions within a group are always more interesting to members than outsiders.