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>a ridiculously obvious attempt to associate with Tesla. Nikola was building barely functional prototypes of their trucks years before Tesla was building barel

>a ridiculously obvious attempt to associate with Tesla. Nikola was building barely functional prototypes of their trucks years before Tesla was building barely functional Semi truck prototypes, for the record. >What were they thinking? Were they being amoral and hoping to ride this pump and dump or did they actually buy into this shit? Fundamentally, what have they done that's so evil compared to, say, the multitude of things Tesla has claimed over the past few years? For example, Tesla claimed door-to-door cross country self-driving tests, oh, about 5 years ago. At what point is it aspiration versus indictable fraud?

admax88q 5y ago
Well... Tesla actually sells real cars. Nikola so far looks little different than your average kickstarter that never delivers.
- itsoktocry 5y ago
  >Well... Tesla actually sells real cars. So if you sell cars and land rockets, you can lie about other things?
  - lazide 5y ago
    Hopefully not - but at least you’d not be 100% fraudulent, unlike the lovely subject of this posting.
rberg 5y ago
> Nikola was building barely functional prototypes of their trucks years before Tesla was building barely functional Semi truck prototypes, for the record. If by "barely functional" you mean a metal skeleton on wheels that rolled down hills, then yes. I'm not a shill for Tesla as they definitely have made very questionable claims in the past, but to claim that Nikola's semi is in any way similar to Tesla is a bit of a stretch.
- mcot2 5y ago
  This person is a troll. The Tesla semi is not “barely functional”. They have been spotted driving all over the place and doing real world testing on actual highways and in cold weather. Production was already to be started except for a shortage of battery cells (due to the extreme popularity of their existing cars and powerwalls/megapacks) which they are working to remedy.
  - __m 5y ago
    The Tesla truck is vaporware https://youtu.be/56862W24HK8 https://youtu.be/56862W24HK8
    - tim333 5y ago
      The reservation page is up, they are talking delivery in 2022.
      - itsoktocry 5y ago
        Like they took delivery in 2019? And in 2022 it will be 2024. And you will continue to think that doesn't matter. If deadlines don't matter why can't Nikola claim the same thing? "It doesn't work yet, but it will?"
        zeusk 5y ago
        Because Tesla did not demonstrate fake trucks to get funding or take orders. The prototypes are not making materially false implications. Tesla does have the technology to make electric trucks, however bad they may be compared to Nikola which had a rolling shell. Tesla and Musk do many bad things, but I'm sure if their truck was just a shell - they'd be in deep trouble too.
        itsoktocry 5y ago
        >(Because Tesla did not demonstrate fake trucks to get funding or take orders They demonstrated fake Solar shingles though. Then bailed out a related party and did a fundraise on it.
ineedasername 5y ago
I don't think "Other companies have made fraudulent claims too" is a valid defense. The federal government choosing to go after a company that has delivered on less of its claims seems reasonable given limited resources to prosecute this sort of thing. Especially as Tesla has done a great job of going right up to the border on misleading claims, and even stepped its toes over the line a bit, but not in a way that would be as easy to prosecute as the more blatant Nikola.
skystarman 5y ago
Plenty to criticize Tesla and Elon about, to be sure, but a lot of Elon's predictions have turned out to be true at least when it comes to passenger vehicles. What they've done with the EV market for consumers is nothing short of remarkable. Obviously Solar and Semi are a different matter. Tesla was run by a technical founder (Stanford PhD pedigree fwiw) that knows his shit (though a bit crazy and prone to exaggeration and hyperbole) and the company has some of the best engineers in the world employed there. Nikola was founded by a dude with zero technical background who as far as anyone can tell had no serious engineering expertise in-house. He even hired his brother--a guy who used to install carpets--to run Nikola's hydrogen infrastructure. These two companies aren't even in the same league imo
- itsoktocry 5y ago
  >Tesla was run by a technical founder (Stanford PhD pedigree fwiw) that knows his shit (though a bit crazy and prone to exaggeration and hyperbole) Musk was not a Stanford PhD nor a founder, if that's who you are referring to. If you can point me to any evidence of either that doesn't come from him, I'll be happy to stand corrected. >He even hired his brother--a guy who used to install carpets--to run Nikola's hydrogen infrastructure. Can you tell me what Kimball's qualifications are for sitting on the Tesla board? I mean, I agree, the Nikola story is hilarious and stupid. But somehow other companies get away with what is the same thing. Milton didn't get to claim "aspiration", or that the trucks will "eventually" work.
  - onethought 5y ago
    Even if you draw the funny arbitrary line of “Elon wasn’t a founder” - the previous founders were technical as well. But taking Tesla from a lotus kit, to the brand it is today makes me think he really is a founder. No comment on the Stanford piece, though it seems believable…
  - borkyborkbork 5y ago
    Legally he is a founder. https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/tesla-ceo-settles-for-founder-title/2088887/ https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/tesla-ceo-settles-for-... Kimball doesn't run part of the infrastructure. You sound like someone who writes SeekingAlpha FUD articles.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

admax88q 5y ago

Well... Tesla actually sells real cars. Nikola so far looks little different than your average kickstarter that never delivers.

itsoktocry 5y ago
>Well... Tesla actually sells real cars. So if you sell cars and land rockets, you can lie about other things?
- lazide 5y ago
  Hopefully not - but at least you’d not be 100% fraudulent, unlike the lovely subject of this posting.

rberg 5y ago

> Nikola was building barely functional prototypes of their trucks years before Tesla was building barely functional Semi truck prototypes, for the record. If by "barely functional" you mean a metal skeleton on wheels that rolled down hills, then yes. I'm not a shill for Tesla as they definitely have made very questionable claims in the past, but to claim that Nikola's semi is in any way similar to Tesla is a bit of a stretch.

mcot2 5y ago
This person is a troll. The Tesla semi is not “barely functional”. They have been spotted driving all over the place and doing real world testing on actual highways and in cold weather. Production was already to be started except for a shortage of battery cells (due to the extreme popularity of their existing cars and powerwalls/megapacks) which they are working to remedy.
- __m 5y ago
  The Tesla truck is vaporware https://youtu.be/56862W24HK8 https://youtu.be/56862W24HK8
  - tim333 5y ago
    The reservation page is up, they are talking delivery in 2022.
    - itsoktocry 5y ago
      Like they took delivery in 2019? And in 2022 it will be 2024. And you will continue to think that doesn't matter. If deadlines don't matter why can't Nikola claim the same thing? "It doesn't work yet, but it will?"
      - zeusk 5y ago
        Because Tesla did not demonstrate fake trucks to get funding or take orders. The prototypes are not making materially false implications. Tesla does have the technology to make electric trucks, however bad they may be compared to Nikola which had a rolling shell. Tesla and Musk do many bad things, but I'm sure if their truck was just a shell - they'd be in deep trouble too.
        itsoktocry 5y ago
        >(Because Tesla did not demonstrate fake trucks to get funding or take orders They demonstrated fake Solar shingles though. Then bailed out a related party and did a fundraise on it.

ineedasername 5y ago

I don't think "Other companies have made fraudulent claims too" is a valid defense. The federal government choosing to go after a company that has delivered on less of its claims seems reasonable given limited resources to prosecute this sort of thing. Especially as Tesla has done a great job of going right up to the border on misleading claims, and even stepped its toes over the line a bit, but not in a way that would be as easy to prosecute as the more blatant Nikola.

skystarman 5y ago

Plenty to criticize Tesla and Elon about, to be sure, but a lot of Elon's predictions have turned out to be true at least when it comes to passenger vehicles. What they've done with the EV market for consumers is nothing short of remarkable. Obviously Solar and Semi are a different matter. Tesla was run by a technical founder (Stanford PhD pedigree fwiw) that knows his shit (though a bit crazy and prone to exaggeration and hyperbole) and the company has some of the best engineers in the world employed there. Nikola was founded by a dude with zero technical background who as far as anyone can tell had no serious engineering expertise in-house. He even hired his brother--a guy who used to install carpets--to run Nikola's hydrogen infrastructure. These two companies aren't even in the same league imo

itsoktocry 5y ago
>Tesla was run by a technical founder (Stanford PhD pedigree fwiw) that knows his shit (though a bit crazy and prone to exaggeration and hyperbole) Musk was not a Stanford PhD nor a founder, if that's who you are referring to. If you can point me to any evidence of either that doesn't come from him, I'll be happy to stand corrected. >He even hired his brother--a guy who used to install carpets--to run Nikola's hydrogen infrastructure. Can you tell me what Kimball's qualifications are for sitting on the Tesla board? I mean, I agree, the Nikola story is hilarious and stupid. But somehow other companies get away with what is the same thing. Milton didn't get to claim "aspiration", or that the trucks will "eventually" work.
- onethought 5y ago
  Even if you draw the funny arbitrary line of “Elon wasn’t a founder” - the previous founders were technical as well. But taking Tesla from a lotus kit, to the brand it is today makes me think he really is a founder. No comment on the Stanford piece, though it seems believable…
- borkyborkbork 5y ago
  Legally he is a founder. https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/tesla-ceo-settles-for-founder-title/2088887/ https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/tesla-ceo-settles-for-... Kimball doesn't run part of the infrastructure. You sound like someone who writes SeekingAlpha FUD articles.

deleted 5y ago

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