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I don't know about you, but for me this feels like the gates of hell opening for patent trolls. AI can produce thousands of patents in a single day. As always p

I don't know about you, but for me this feels like the gates of hell opening for patent trolls. AI can produce thousands of patents in a single day. As always patent trolls make no money from patents, but from the bureaucratic process. So a schema like this that allows virtually unlimited patents to be created will increase even more trolls misbehavior

unyttigfjelltol 5y ago
Then patent offices will generate adversarial AI review examiners. Together the AI trolls and AI examiners might for the first time produce true innovation out of the patent-giving process
- dleslie 5y ago
  AFAICT, a sufficient AI review examiner would validate all inputs that are reasonably coherent, but not necessarily novel.
  - dasudasu 5y ago
    More likely to be the opposite. It would be very easy to explore prior art through tons of databases. On the other hand, AI has been touted for years to be on the verge of revolutionizing case law and this has yet to happen.
    - annoyingnoob 5y ago
      In my experience with patents, you don't really need something novel as much as you need unique words in your patent, its all about wordsmithing.
- BrianOnHN 5y ago
  After said trolls force the hand of the government to invest in a sufficient adversarial network.
- Archelaos 5y ago
  You forgot to mention the AI judges, when there is a dispute.
  - mrosett 5y ago
    Isn't that just the objective function?
- wallaBBB 5y ago
  Considering the quality of current examinations in the approval process, I don't see how AI can do any worse. Basically now instead of doing a proper technical analysis and search over already approved patents, seems they just approve and "let the courts handle it". I understand a proper type of technical patent analysis in the approval process is extremely hard and resource consuming, but the way it's handled now is killing anyone not having a legal firm on their speed dial and cash to burn.
- sudeepj 5y ago
  > patent offices will generate adversarial AI review examiners What if someone patents these examiners first? :)
soco 5y ago
This can be done also without listing AI as the inventor. What was stopping them yesterday from generating random patents and is not stopping them today with this?
- dasudasu 5y ago
  Nothing at all. The friction is that it costs a decent chunk of money to submit patents. It’s not worthwhile to submit gibberish ones that will never be accepted, or never hold up in court if accepted but challenged. But there is probably some potential market for an innovative AI able to produce patents worth more than the fees they incur, for legitimate or trolling purposes.
  - robertlagrant 5y ago
    Of course, then you need to understand what patents you have, which requires just as much work as drafting the patent in the first place :)
londons_explore 5y ago
A patent fee should keep this behaviour to a minimum... Patents already have quite a big fee, but perhaps it should be made larger to prevent this kind of abuse. If the large fee prevents inventors, then perhaps some scheme along the lines of 'The fee is $50 for the first 5 inventions, then $100k per patent after that" might be suitable.
- 0xTJ 5y ago
  I hate to be pessimistic, but I'm sure this would lead to situations where dummy companies are set up for registering the patent, and are then acquired by the patent troll, with all those assets.
  - londons_explore 5y ago
    Have it like income taxes... Ie., it's per citizen and companies can't be the inventor (or if they do, they have to pay the higher rate).
easytiger 5y ago
I'm sure I have read a Charles Stross novel in which the protagonist does this and becomes the wealthiest person on the planet
- GraemeL 5y ago
  Accelerando > In IP geek circles, Manfred is legendary; he's the guy who patented the business practice of moving your e-business somewhere with a slack intellectual property regime in order to evade licensing encumbrances. He's the guy who patented using genetic algorithms to patent everything they can permutate from an initial description of a problem domain – not just a better mousetrap, but the set of all possible better mousetraps.
  - easytiger 5y ago
    That's the one! Thanks
h0l0cube 5y ago
> AI can produce thousands of patents in a single day This is only a problem if the AI is litigious. Surely an AI with true agency would be keep the patent rights to themselves
- shoto_io 5y ago
  It is a great way to control the AI. Patents should be mandatory for them. If they file for "Mass extinction of human species devices" we will reveal their plans just in time!
cowl 5y ago
These patents will be enforced only by AI courts and any potential settlement needs to be in "energy points"
- HenryKissinger 5y ago
  Courts in and of themselves have no hard power. Law enforcement agents and other officers of the peace are the ones in charge of delivering on courts judgements. I, for one, welcome our new Robocop overlords.
ISL 5y ago
If so, seventeen years later, nothing will be patentable.
helsinkiandrew 5y ago
You could use AI to produce thousands of patents in a single day and put your name as the inventor - I'm not sure having the AI system recorded as inventor adds much for patent trolls.
narrator 5y ago
If AI just churns out a whole bunch of stuff with no known useful application that can be demonstrated in physical reality, it won't be able to patent that. "[A] patent is not a hunting license. It is not a reward for the search, but compensation for its successful conclusion" - Brenner v. Manson [1] In the above case, the inventor discovered a whole class of molecules. The Supreme Court said that you can't patent that because you have to show that each thing you patent can be used for something useful. Basically, the inventor couldn't just claim the whole class of molecules to keep anyone from using them and then figure out what they're good for later. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brenner_v._Manson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brenner_v._Manson

unyttigfjelltol 5y ago

Then patent offices will generate adversarial AI review examiners. Together the AI trolls and AI examiners might for the first time produce true innovation out of the patent-giving process

dleslie 5y ago
AFAICT, a sufficient AI review examiner would validate all inputs that are reasonably coherent, but not necessarily novel.
- dasudasu 5y ago
  More likely to be the opposite. It would be very easy to explore prior art through tons of databases. On the other hand, AI has been touted for years to be on the verge of revolutionizing case law and this has yet to happen.
  - annoyingnoob 5y ago
    In my experience with patents, you don't really need something novel as much as you need unique words in your patent, its all about wordsmithing.
BrianOnHN 5y ago
After said trolls force the hand of the government to invest in a sufficient adversarial network.
Archelaos 5y ago
You forgot to mention the AI judges, when there is a dispute.
- mrosett 5y ago
  Isn't that just the objective function?
wallaBBB 5y ago
Considering the quality of current examinations in the approval process, I don't see how AI can do any worse. Basically now instead of doing a proper technical analysis and search over already approved patents, seems they just approve and "let the courts handle it". I understand a proper type of technical patent analysis in the approval process is extremely hard and resource consuming, but the way it's handled now is killing anyone not having a legal firm on their speed dial and cash to burn.
sudeepj 5y ago
> patent offices will generate adversarial AI review examiners What if someone patents these examiners first? :)

soco 5y ago

This can be done also without listing AI as the inventor. What was stopping them yesterday from generating random patents and is not stopping them today with this?

dasudasu 5y ago
Nothing at all. The friction is that it costs a decent chunk of money to submit patents. It’s not worthwhile to submit gibberish ones that will never be accepted, or never hold up in court if accepted but challenged. But there is probably some potential market for an innovative AI able to produce patents worth more than the fees they incur, for legitimate or trolling purposes.
- robertlagrant 5y ago
  Of course, then you need to understand what patents you have, which requires just as much work as drafting the patent in the first place :)

londons_explore 5y ago

A patent fee should keep this behaviour to a minimum... Patents already have quite a big fee, but perhaps it should be made larger to prevent this kind of abuse. If the large fee prevents inventors, then perhaps some scheme along the lines of 'The fee is $50 for the first 5 inventions, then $100k per patent after that" might be suitable.

0xTJ 5y ago
I hate to be pessimistic, but I'm sure this would lead to situations where dummy companies are set up for registering the patent, and are then acquired by the patent troll, with all those assets.
- londons_explore 5y ago
  Have it like income taxes... Ie., it's per citizen and companies can't be the inventor (or if they do, they have to pay the higher rate).

easytiger 5y ago

I'm sure I have read a Charles Stross novel in which the protagonist does this and becomes the wealthiest person on the planet

GraemeL 5y ago
Accelerando > In IP geek circles, Manfred is legendary; he's the guy who patented the business practice of moving your e-business somewhere with a slack intellectual property regime in order to evade licensing encumbrances. He's the guy who patented using genetic algorithms to patent everything they can permutate from an initial description of a problem domain – not just a better mousetrap, but the set of all possible better mousetraps.
- easytiger 5y ago
  That's the one! Thanks

h0l0cube 5y ago

> AI can produce thousands of patents in a single day This is only a problem if the AI is litigious. Surely an AI with true agency would be keep the patent rights to themselves

shoto_io 5y ago
It is a great way to control the AI. Patents should be mandatory for them. If they file for "Mass extinction of human species devices" we will reveal their plans just in time!

cowl 5y ago

These patents will be enforced only by AI courts and any potential settlement needs to be in "energy points"

HenryKissinger 5y ago
Courts in and of themselves have no hard power. Law enforcement agents and other officers of the peace are the ones in charge of delivering on courts judgements. I, for one, welcome our new Robocop overlords.

ISL 5y ago

If so, seventeen years later, nothing will be patentable.

helsinkiandrew 5y ago

You could use AI to produce thousands of patents in a single day and put your name as the inventor - I'm not sure having the AI system recorded as inventor adds much for patent trolls.

narrator 5y ago

If AI just churns out a whole bunch of stuff with no known useful application that can be demonstrated in physical reality, it won't be able to patent that. "[A] patent is not a hunting license. It is not a reward for the search, but compensation for its successful conclusion" - Brenner v. Manson [1] In the above case, the inventor discovered a whole class of molecules. The Supreme Court said that you can't patent that because you have to show that each thing you patent can be used for something useful. Basically, the inventor couldn't just claim the whole class of molecules to keep anyone from using them and then figure out what they're good for later. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brenner_v._Manson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brenner_v._Manson