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For those outside of Australia, we are are currently in the early stages of vaccine roll out, 14.1% fully vaccinated. Consequently we are still using the blunt

For those outside of Australia, we are are currently in the early stages of vaccine roll out, 14.1% fully vaccinated. Consequently we are still using the blunt instruments of lockdown to solve our problems. If anyone out there can send some Pfizer or equivalent our way...

kmlx 5y ago
a number of q's: 1. isn't AZN available? 2. how many lockdowns have there been in Australia overall? 3. is there any criticism regarding closing the borders for so long considering you're now in a lockdown?
- jjgreen 5y ago
  Not the OP but I believe that AZ is available but only for the over 60s.
  - tpmx 5y ago
    https://www.health.gov.au/initiatives-and-programs/covid-19-vaccines/learn-about-covid-19-vaccines/about-the-astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccine https://www.health.gov.au/initiatives-and-programs/covid-19-... The AstraZeneca vaccine has been provisionally approved by the Therapeutic Goods Administration (TGA) for people 18 years and older.
    - jjgreen 5y ago
      I stand corrected, it seems that the over 60s are advised to have AZ, and under 60s Pfizer, but that's just a recommendation: https://www.health.gov.au/initiatives-and-programs/covid-19-vaccines/learn-about-covid-19-vaccines/about-the-astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccine https://www.health.gov.au/initiatives-and-programs/covid-19-...
    - jackvalentine 5y ago
      Available, but the recommendations from ATAGI have been contextually shifting and could be summed up as 'if there isn't an outbreak then the risk profile means under 60s should probably wait for pfizer' https://www.health.gov.au/news/atagi-statement-on-revised-recommendations-on-the-use-of-covid-19-vaccine-astrazeneca-17-june-2021 https://www.health.gov.au/news/atagi-statement-on-revised-re...
    - h0l0cube 5y ago
      For people under 60 you need to give informed consent due to the (rare) blood clotting issue. From the same link: > If you are aged 18-59 years of age, you can choose to receive the AstraZeneca vaccine: > - following an appropriate assessment of suitability by a qualified health professional; and > - if you provide verbal or written consent. This extra hurdle and some mixed messaging about the risks has made many people hesitant
    - JimTheMan 5y ago
      Technically available, if you can jump hurdles.. I bet in the US I can go and get any vaccine I choose. There's a lot of advantages to living in Australia, this isn't one of them.
    - _kyran 5y ago
      I've had friends in their 20s have their GP deny them getting it.
- sime 5y ago
  1. Yes but there have been the issues with blood clotting 2. I've lost count of the total number of lockdowns across all states but there have been two lengthy ones so far, one in Victoria and one in New South Wales. 3. Plenty. Problem is we've been quarantining international return travellers in hotels close to the cities and it's virtually impossible to not have that leak into the community.
  - _kyran 5y ago
    In Melbourne the hotel isn't just close to the city, but directly in the CBD a couple of blocks from Flinders St Station.
    - valzam 5y ago
      There are multiple in the city AFAIK. I cycle past one on the way to work...
- JimTheMan 5y ago
  1. For those over 50 due to blood clotting side effects. The government recently palmed off the decision for those under that age to GPs to approve to try to mask their incompetence.. A diversion tactic at best. Useful for those with comorbidities to get AZ I suppose. Those more likely to die of covid than any clot. 2. Depends on the state. I'm in Melbourne, so five. 3. Not widespread, no. I am sure some people feel very strongly about it though.
whb07 5y ago
Meanwhile Israel is one of the top 5 most vaccinated countries in the world and the US has a travel warning against them. Isn’t Iceland also extremely well vaccinated and they started another lockdown?
- adevx 5y ago
  I also found this remarkable. The Seychelles, one of the most vaccinated countries on earth had a huge spike. It also looks like countries with strict lockdowns (UK, Belgium) are doing worse than countries with much looser restrictions like Sweden. Of course this is cherry picking countries to fit my narrative, but at the very least it shows things aren't as black and white as often presented. Maybe thinking one is 100% protected after vaccination is what creates this issue ? Maybe vaccinated people still spread the virus like wildfire yet somehow do not require to show a negative test to board a plane or visit events? https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explorer?zoomToSelection=true&time=2021-06-08..latest&pickerSort=asc&pickerMetric=location&Metric=Confirmed+deaths&Interval=7-day+rolling+average&Relative+to+Population=true&Align+outbreaks=false&country=BEL~AUS~SWE~GBR https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explor...
  - zarzavat 5y ago
    Cause and effect is the other way around. UK had one of the strictest lockdowns because UK was extremely unwilling to lock down last autumn. UK actually had coronavirus under control in summer 2020. Cases started rising again in September after the school holidays but the govt didn't close schools until January 4 months later, by which time the cases had ballooned to gargantuan levels, necessitating a gargantuan lockdown when the shit hit the fan.
    - naturalauction 5y ago
      Also just to note how extremely unwilling the uk government was to lock down, when they closed schools in January they didn’t close them directly after the winter break. Instead they allowed all kids to go to school for one day in January and then decided to lock down when the numbers looked bad on Monday evening after all the kids had already been to school (which obviously caused a lot of spread for that one day).
awnird 5y ago
Australia is a wealthy, well connected country. Is there a good explainer somewhere of why it's so far behind on the vaccine roll out? Looking at Canada, which I'd naively place in a similar category, and they're over 80%.
- pestatije 5y ago
  They bought plenty of AZ (before the clotting was an issue) but now nobody wants to get it.
- jackvalentine 5y ago
  We didn't have mass outbreaks so the population isn't really afraid of the virus. The locally produced astra-zeneca vaccine has a rare blood clot complication but the media amplified that to insanity level and now everyone is scared of getting it. We only minimally hedged our bets on other vaccines and now have to wait until pfizer/moderna can get around to producing our order.
  - cthaeh 5y ago
    For certain populations (ie young women) the risks from AstraZeneca vaccine outweigh the risks from covid. Old people shouldnt be scared yes, but young people should approach it with caution. And isn't that what the government is saying anyways- confirm with doctor and then get it?
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - jackvalentine 5y ago
      They outweigh the risks of COVID when there is very little covid. That situation can change much faster than you can get two doses in to your arm.
- sime 5y ago
  We ordered Pfizer and AstraZenica vaccines but due to the rare blood clot issues in some younger people with AstraZenica, the government restricted that to over 50s. Then when they realised that we didn't have enough Pfizer being made they tried to say that people under 50 can get it after consulting their doctor but by then they'd scared off lots of people. Pfizer is also harder to administer as it needs special refrigeration equipment. A lot of people are also hesitant to getting the vaccine, perhaps because until recently most states apart from Victoria hadn't experienced large numbers of cases, deaths or lengthy lockdowns. That's started to change with the spread of the delta variant and more lockdowns etc.
otabdeveloper4 5y ago
> to solve our problems What exactly are your problems? (Asking for a friend.)
- jiggawatts 5y ago
  Our glorious leader has no foresight, or ability to plan for future problems. How do I know this? Because he infamously brought a lump of coal to parliament to show people how it's not dirty at all and nobody needs to be scared of it. (He had it lacquered to stop his hands getting dirty.) The selfsame genius of a man was quoted earlier in the year saying that "vaccination was not a race". He also cancelled out original Pfizer order, so then we got put at the back of the queue after dozens of other countries.
  - JimTheMan 5y ago
    It's kind of shocking isn't it. Covid has made Australians super aware of the delineation between State and Federal Government. My suspicion is that as a general rule, the Federal Government seems truly terrible at Project Execution. My hypothesis is that State Governments have to actually build things and operate schools/hospitals/police/transport etc. While the Federal Government is more of a financial institution... and consequently doesn't have the actual experience of getting things done. And so when it comes time to rise to the occasion, they simply don't have the skill set to get it done.
AndrewBissell 5y ago
> For those outside of Australia, we are are currently in the early stages of vaccine roll out, 14.1% fully vaccinated. Consequently we are still using the blunt instruments of lockdown to solve our problems. Presumably that 14.1% represents the vast majority of people who were at serious risk of severe illness or death from Covid. If the vaccines are effective against preventing serious hospitalizations and deaths, then this should have eliminated the possibility of the hospitals becoming overcrowded and stressed. The original justification for lockdowns was to prevent that from happening. What's the justification now?
- morsch 5y ago
  Around 15% are aged 65+, and it's possible that the hospitalisation rate for younger people is high enough that it'll still crash the system. I don't know. It starts ramping up at around 40.

kmlx 5y ago

a number of q's: 1. isn't AZN available? 2. how many lockdowns have there been in Australia overall? 3. is there any criticism regarding closing the borders for so long considering you're now in a lockdown?

jjgreen 5y ago
Not the OP but I believe that AZ is available but only for the over 60s.
- tpmx 5y ago
  https://www.health.gov.au/initiatives-and-programs/covid-19-vaccines/learn-about-covid-19-vaccines/about-the-astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccine https://www.health.gov.au/initiatives-and-programs/covid-19-... The AstraZeneca vaccine has been provisionally approved by the Therapeutic Goods Administration (TGA) for people 18 years and older.
  - jjgreen 5y ago
    I stand corrected, it seems that the over 60s are advised to have AZ, and under 60s Pfizer, but that's just a recommendation: https://www.health.gov.au/initiatives-and-programs/covid-19-vaccines/learn-about-covid-19-vaccines/about-the-astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccine https://www.health.gov.au/initiatives-and-programs/covid-19-...
  - jackvalentine 5y ago
    Available, but the recommendations from ATAGI have been contextually shifting and could be summed up as 'if there isn't an outbreak then the risk profile means under 60s should probably wait for pfizer' https://www.health.gov.au/news/atagi-statement-on-revised-recommendations-on-the-use-of-covid-19-vaccine-astrazeneca-17-june-2021 https://www.health.gov.au/news/atagi-statement-on-revised-re...
  - h0l0cube 5y ago
    For people under 60 you need to give informed consent due to the (rare) blood clotting issue. From the same link: > If you are aged 18-59 years of age, you can choose to receive the AstraZeneca vaccine: > - following an appropriate assessment of suitability by a qualified health professional; and > - if you provide verbal or written consent. This extra hurdle and some mixed messaging about the risks has made many people hesitant
  - JimTheMan 5y ago
    Technically available, if you can jump hurdles.. I bet in the US I can go and get any vaccine I choose. There's a lot of advantages to living in Australia, this isn't one of them.
  - _kyran 5y ago
    I've had friends in their 20s have their GP deny them getting it.
sime 5y ago
1. Yes but there have been the issues with blood clotting 2. I've lost count of the total number of lockdowns across all states but there have been two lengthy ones so far, one in Victoria and one in New South Wales. 3. Plenty. Problem is we've been quarantining international return travellers in hotels close to the cities and it's virtually impossible to not have that leak into the community.
- _kyran 5y ago
  In Melbourne the hotel isn't just close to the city, but directly in the CBD a couple of blocks from Flinders St Station.
  - valzam 5y ago
    There are multiple in the city AFAIK. I cycle past one on the way to work...
JimTheMan 5y ago
1. For those over 50 due to blood clotting side effects. The government recently palmed off the decision for those under that age to GPs to approve to try to mask their incompetence.. A diversion tactic at best. Useful for those with comorbidities to get AZ I suppose. Those more likely to die of covid than any clot. 2. Depends on the state. I'm in Melbourne, so five. 3. Not widespread, no. I am sure some people feel very strongly about it though.

whb07 5y ago

Meanwhile Israel is one of the top 5 most vaccinated countries in the world and the US has a travel warning against them. Isn’t Iceland also extremely well vaccinated and they started another lockdown?

adevx 5y ago
I also found this remarkable. The Seychelles, one of the most vaccinated countries on earth had a huge spike. It also looks like countries with strict lockdowns (UK, Belgium) are doing worse than countries with much looser restrictions like Sweden. Of course this is cherry picking countries to fit my narrative, but at the very least it shows things aren't as black and white as often presented. Maybe thinking one is 100% protected after vaccination is what creates this issue ? Maybe vaccinated people still spread the virus like wildfire yet somehow do not require to show a negative test to board a plane or visit events? https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explorer?zoomToSelection=true&time=2021-06-08..latest&pickerSort=asc&pickerMetric=location&Metric=Confirmed+deaths&Interval=7-day+rolling+average&Relative+to+Population=true&Align+outbreaks=false&country=BEL~AUS~SWE~GBR https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explor...
- zarzavat 5y ago
  Cause and effect is the other way around. UK had one of the strictest lockdowns because UK was extremely unwilling to lock down last autumn. UK actually had coronavirus under control in summer 2020. Cases started rising again in September after the school holidays but the govt didn't close schools until January 4 months later, by which time the cases had ballooned to gargantuan levels, necessitating a gargantuan lockdown when the shit hit the fan.
  - naturalauction 5y ago
    Also just to note how extremely unwilling the uk government was to lock down, when they closed schools in January they didn’t close them directly after the winter break. Instead they allowed all kids to go to school for one day in January and then decided to lock down when the numbers looked bad on Monday evening after all the kids had already been to school (which obviously caused a lot of spread for that one day).

awnird 5y ago

Australia is a wealthy, well connected country. Is there a good explainer somewhere of why it's so far behind on the vaccine roll out? Looking at Canada, which I'd naively place in a similar category, and they're over 80%.

pestatije 5y ago
They bought plenty of AZ (before the clotting was an issue) but now nobody wants to get it.
jackvalentine 5y ago
We didn't have mass outbreaks so the population isn't really afraid of the virus. The locally produced astra-zeneca vaccine has a rare blood clot complication but the media amplified that to insanity level and now everyone is scared of getting it. We only minimally hedged our bets on other vaccines and now have to wait until pfizer/moderna can get around to producing our order.
- cthaeh 5y ago
  For certain populations (ie young women) the risks from AstraZeneca vaccine outweigh the risks from covid. Old people shouldnt be scared yes, but young people should approach it with caution. And isn't that what the government is saying anyways- confirm with doctor and then get it?
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - jackvalentine 5y ago
    They outweigh the risks of COVID when there is very little covid. That situation can change much faster than you can get two doses in to your arm.
sime 5y ago
We ordered Pfizer and AstraZenica vaccines but due to the rare blood clot issues in some younger people with AstraZenica, the government restricted that to over 50s. Then when they realised that we didn't have enough Pfizer being made they tried to say that people under 50 can get it after consulting their doctor but by then they'd scared off lots of people. Pfizer is also harder to administer as it needs special refrigeration equipment. A lot of people are also hesitant to getting the vaccine, perhaps because until recently most states apart from Victoria hadn't experienced large numbers of cases, deaths or lengthy lockdowns. That's started to change with the spread of the delta variant and more lockdowns etc.

otabdeveloper4 5y ago

> to solve our problems What exactly are your problems? (Asking for a friend.)

jiggawatts 5y ago
Our glorious leader has no foresight, or ability to plan for future problems. How do I know this? Because he infamously brought a lump of coal to parliament to show people how it's not dirty at all and nobody needs to be scared of it. (He had it lacquered to stop his hands getting dirty.) The selfsame genius of a man was quoted earlier in the year saying that "vaccination was not a race". He also cancelled out original Pfizer order, so then we got put at the back of the queue after dozens of other countries.
- JimTheMan 5y ago
  It's kind of shocking isn't it. Covid has made Australians super aware of the delineation between State and Federal Government. My suspicion is that as a general rule, the Federal Government seems truly terrible at Project Execution. My hypothesis is that State Governments have to actually build things and operate schools/hospitals/police/transport etc. While the Federal Government is more of a financial institution... and consequently doesn't have the actual experience of getting things done. And so when it comes time to rise to the occasion, they simply don't have the skill set to get it done.

AndrewBissell 5y ago

> For those outside of Australia, we are are currently in the early stages of vaccine roll out, 14.1% fully vaccinated. Consequently we are still using the blunt instruments of lockdown to solve our problems. Presumably that 14.1% represents the vast majority of people who were at serious risk of severe illness or death from Covid. If the vaccines are effective against preventing serious hospitalizations and deaths, then this should have eliminated the possibility of the hospitals becoming overcrowded and stressed. The original justification for lockdowns was to prevent that from happening. What's the justification now?

morsch 5y ago
Around 15% are aged 65+, and it's possible that the hospitalisation rate for younger people is high enough that it'll still crash the system. I don't know. It starts ramping up at around 40.