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Quote from https://apnews.com/article/health-coronavirus-pandemic-79959d313428d98ab8aa905bbe287ba0 https://apnews.com/article/health-coronavirus-pandemic-79959.

Quote from https://apnews.com/article/health-coronavirus-pandemic-79959d313428d98ab8aa905bbe287ba0 https://apnews.com/article/health-coronavirus-pandemic-79959... "Citing new information about the variant’s ability to spread among vaccinated people, the CDC also recommended indoor masks for all teachers, staff, students and visitors at schools nationwide, regardless of vaccination status." If someone is vaccinated AND still spreading the virus, is it any different from having an asymthomatic case of COVID? According to the article, even an asymptomatic case carries a risk of brain damage. As a corollary, the vaccine may save you from the disease, but not from the brain damage. Is this a correct assessment?

birken 5y ago
As far as I'm aware, the answers to these questions is currently not known.
ajross 5y ago
> If someone is vaccinated AND still spreading the virus, is it any different from having an asymthomatic case of COVID? It carries about an order of magnitude lower risk of hospitalization or death, so... yes. Yes, it is very different. We don't know about long term effects, those are, y'know, long term and hard to study in this kind of timeframe. Which is why the linked article is notable. Also note that risk of transmission is about 10x lower (vs. delta, better vs. the older variants) for the vaccinated. So even if they're just as likely to see long term CNS issues from infection they're vastly less likely to be infected in the first place. I don't think this article changes the vaccine calculus at all. Get your shot. It's your best protection against everything to do with covid.
- pintofthrowaway 5y ago
  It's hard for some of us, myself included. I'm a hospital physician in a suburban American hospital. I don't know a single physician who was even hospitalized with COVID-19. I know two physicians who died from the vaccine, one who bled to death with DIC in my care. I know of another in our area who is permanently disabled with transverse myelitis after the vaccine. I'm not alone, despite what you've heard generally about physicians, when I say I have some very controversial and unpopular opinions about vaccination of low-risk individuals, regardless of how that impacts the at-risk population. Selfish, yes, but in my opinion the reaction to this virus has been far more damaging than the virus itself. Throwaway for obvious reasons, as I would be fired for even sharing my opinions.
  - ajross 5y ago
    I'm sorry, but that seems to be an impossible claim. In fact there are zero cases (edit: two people have come by to cite statistics on all-cause death numbers, which aren't responsive here. PLEASE be careful with your numbers, people, those values include folks who died of car accidents and heroin overdoses, etc...) where the Pfizer or Moderna vaccines are generally believed to have caused death, and 3 (three) deaths in the US from clotting associated with the J&J vaccine. It strains credulity that two of those three were associates of yours, sorry. In fact IIRC the overall death rate (i.e. just counting how many people died of all causes following vaccine administration) has, in fact (this is hardly surprising given the general pandemic environment) been shown to be significantly lower for the vaccinated. I don't know what you're citing, but it doesn't track with existing science, sorry. > I would be fired for even sharing my opinions. My guess is it would be your factual assertions and not your "opinions" that would get you in trouble.
    - ds206 5y ago
      "Reports of death after COVID-19 vaccination are rare. More than 342 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through July 26, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 6,340 reports of death (0.0019%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine." https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/ad...
      - ajross 5y ago
        Exactly, that is an overall death rate, which IIRC is lower than the death rate among the unvaccinated population! It shows the opposite of what you think it does.
        ds206 5y ago
        Do tell. What was I thinking?
      - yeuxardents 5y ago
- yeuxardents 5y ago
  > We don't know about long term effects, those are, y'know, long term and hard to study in this kind of timeframe. Which is why the linked article is notable. This is priceless, as, for the same reasons, we do not know the long term effects of any of the vaccines either.
  - loopz 5y ago
    They are regarded as very safe compared to other approaches.
- peakaboo 5y ago
  Very bad advice to take that vaccine in my opinion. It's dangerous and not worth the risk at all.
  - Tostino 5y ago
    I'm glad no one asked for your expert opinion then.
BurningFrog 5y ago
Vaccinated people get in contact with the virus as much as the non vaccinated. The virus invades the bodies and start multiplying in both populations. The difference is that the vaccinated body is prepared to immediately attack the virus, something that takes weeks for the unvaccinated body to figure out. So during the short interval when the vaccinated body hasn't yet wiped out the virus, the person is technically infected, will test positive, and can probably transmit some of the few viruses it has. But that both vaccinated and unvaccinated can transmit the virus does NOT mean the danger levels are anywhere near similar! This is probably why so many athletes get positive tests. If you get tested every day, you can get a positive test while a minor infection is defeated, even though you don't feel any symptoms.
- SquishyPanda23 5y ago
  > Vaccinated people get in contact with the virus as much as the non vaccinated. Is this known to be true, or is it an assumption you're making in your analysis? Just curious, because I would have expected people who refuse to be vaccinated to also be more likely to socialize in ways that expose them to the virus.
  - BurningFrog 5y ago
    I should probably have said "as easily". I doubt anyone knows which group is more exposed, and it's not very important for the argument. Personally, I expose myself to a lot more virus risks than before I got vaccinated, if you want an opposing argument.
- peakaboo 5y ago
  > The difference is that the vaccinated body is prepared to immediately attack the virus, something that takes weeks for the unvaccinated body to figure out. Then vaccine side effects literally ruin your life if you get them. You will be sick, weak, perhaps unable to walk anymore, perhaps constantly shaking. So many young people have gotten their lives completely ruined by trusting these vaccines. Anyone can go to CovidVaccinated on reddit and see the horrors people experience. Most vaccinated people are fine (although we have no idea if they will continue to be fine or not, could be birth defects, infertility, or anything else that shows in months or years). To me it's very stupid to risk your life for this vaccine. Its dangerous.
sonicggg 5y ago
That's a great question. Another interesting one is whether these vaccines are preventing cases of Long Covid. I feel World leaders are conveniently being quiet about these questions, and focusing too much on the drop of death counts only. It's an attempt to rush and re-open the economy at any cost.
tedunangst 5y ago
One might reasonably extrapolate from a 10x (100x?) reduction in deaths to a 10x reduction in brain damage.

birken 5y ago

As far as I'm aware, the answers to these questions is currently not known.

ajross 5y ago

> If someone is vaccinated AND still spreading the virus, is it any different from having an asymthomatic case of COVID? It carries about an order of magnitude lower risk of hospitalization or death, so... yes. Yes, it is very different. We don't know about long term effects, those are, y'know, long term and hard to study in this kind of timeframe. Which is why the linked article is notable. Also note that risk of transmission is about 10x lower (vs. delta, better vs. the older variants) for the vaccinated. So even if they're just as likely to see long term CNS issues from infection they're vastly less likely to be infected in the first place. I don't think this article changes the vaccine calculus at all. Get your shot. It's your best protection against everything to do with covid.

pintofthrowaway 5y ago
It's hard for some of us, myself included. I'm a hospital physician in a suburban American hospital. I don't know a single physician who was even hospitalized with COVID-19. I know two physicians who died from the vaccine, one who bled to death with DIC in my care. I know of another in our area who is permanently disabled with transverse myelitis after the vaccine. I'm not alone, despite what you've heard generally about physicians, when I say I have some very controversial and unpopular opinions about vaccination of low-risk individuals, regardless of how that impacts the at-risk population. Selfish, yes, but in my opinion the reaction to this virus has been far more damaging than the virus itself. Throwaway for obvious reasons, as I would be fired for even sharing my opinions.
- ajross 5y ago
  I'm sorry, but that seems to be an impossible claim. In fact there are zero cases (edit: two people have come by to cite statistics on all-cause death numbers, which aren't responsive here. PLEASE be careful with your numbers, people, those values include folks who died of car accidents and heroin overdoses, etc...) where the Pfizer or Moderna vaccines are generally believed to have caused death, and 3 (three) deaths in the US from clotting associated with the J&J vaccine. It strains credulity that two of those three were associates of yours, sorry. In fact IIRC the overall death rate (i.e. just counting how many people died of all causes following vaccine administration) has, in fact (this is hardly surprising given the general pandemic environment) been shown to be significantly lower for the vaccinated. I don't know what you're citing, but it doesn't track with existing science, sorry. > I would be fired for even sharing my opinions. My guess is it would be your factual assertions and not your "opinions" that would get you in trouble.
  - ds206 5y ago
    "Reports of death after COVID-19 vaccination are rare. More than 342 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through July 26, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 6,340 reports of death (0.0019%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine." https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/ad...
    - ajross 5y ago
      Exactly, that is an overall death rate, which IIRC is lower than the death rate among the unvaccinated population! It shows the opposite of what you think it does.
      - ds206 5y ago
        Do tell. What was I thinking?
    - yeuxardents 5y ago
yeuxardents 5y ago
> We don't know about long term effects, those are, y'know, long term and hard to study in this kind of timeframe. Which is why the linked article is notable. This is priceless, as, for the same reasons, we do not know the long term effects of any of the vaccines either.
- loopz 5y ago
  They are regarded as very safe compared to other approaches.
peakaboo 5y ago
Very bad advice to take that vaccine in my opinion. It's dangerous and not worth the risk at all.
- Tostino 5y ago
  I'm glad no one asked for your expert opinion then.

BurningFrog 5y ago

Vaccinated people get in contact with the virus as much as the non vaccinated. The virus invades the bodies and start multiplying in both populations. The difference is that the vaccinated body is prepared to immediately attack the virus, something that takes weeks for the unvaccinated body to figure out. So during the short interval when the vaccinated body hasn't yet wiped out the virus, the person is technically infected, will test positive, and can probably transmit some of the few viruses it has. But that both vaccinated and unvaccinated can transmit the virus does NOT mean the danger levels are anywhere near similar! This is probably why so many athletes get positive tests. If you get tested every day, you can get a positive test while a minor infection is defeated, even though you don't feel any symptoms.

SquishyPanda23 5y ago
> Vaccinated people get in contact with the virus as much as the non vaccinated. Is this known to be true, or is it an assumption you're making in your analysis? Just curious, because I would have expected people who refuse to be vaccinated to also be more likely to socialize in ways that expose them to the virus.
- BurningFrog 5y ago
  I should probably have said "as easily". I doubt anyone knows which group is more exposed, and it's not very important for the argument. Personally, I expose myself to a lot more virus risks than before I got vaccinated, if you want an opposing argument.
peakaboo 5y ago
> The difference is that the vaccinated body is prepared to immediately attack the virus, something that takes weeks for the unvaccinated body to figure out. Then vaccine side effects literally ruin your life if you get them. You will be sick, weak, perhaps unable to walk anymore, perhaps constantly shaking. So many young people have gotten their lives completely ruined by trusting these vaccines. Anyone can go to CovidVaccinated on reddit and see the horrors people experience. Most vaccinated people are fine (although we have no idea if they will continue to be fine or not, could be birth defects, infertility, or anything else that shows in months or years). To me it's very stupid to risk your life for this vaccine. Its dangerous.

sonicggg 5y ago

That's a great question. Another interesting one is whether these vaccines are preventing cases of Long Covid. I feel World leaders are conveniently being quiet about these questions, and focusing too much on the drop of death counts only. It's an attempt to rush and re-open the economy at any cost.

tedunangst 5y ago

One might reasonably extrapolate from a 10x (100x?) reduction in deaths to a 10x reduction in brain damage.