17 ms·

One single dose of LSD can cause permanent psychosis, so this is not surprising. This is why drugs like LSD need to be absolutely banned. They can turn function

One single dose of LSD can cause permanent psychosis, so this is not surprising. This is why drugs like LSD need to be absolutely banned. They can turn functioning people into permanently non-functioning ones. It is an incredibly dangerous drug.

valec 5y ago
no, it's not. best estimates (admittedly poor) put the incidence around 1/50,000 for frequent users. considering the potential mental health uses and the extremely low toxicity (i'm not sure anybody has ever overdosed on lsd) banning psychedelics would be a huge mistake. and > They can turn functioning people into permanently non-functioning ones. It is an incredibly dangerous drug. applies to legal drugs too. alcohol for example. or painkillers or benzos.
- iammisc 5y ago
  One drink of alcohol is unlikely to lead you to become unstable. I don't know about the others. I didn't call for a blanket ban. LSD may have therapeutic uses (other debilitating drugs like paracetamol do), but the self-dosing that people do 'for fun' shouldn't be tolerated.
  - scollet 5y ago
    You called for a blanket ban.
    - iammisc 5y ago
      Sorry, I figured doctor prescriptions were not included. My view is that they should be a controlled substance, the way they are now. You'd have to show amazing cognitive effects for an illness to legalize it for prescription. I don't know the science here though. By 'absolute ban' I mean they should be controlled, and classified as an illegal drug. This is not something people should self-medicate. Those using without a prescription or worse, distributing, should be jailed.
drew1492 5y ago
This is not true, or partially true at best. As far as I'm aware, current consensus is that psychedelics are not a causative agent in psychosis or schizophrenia in the absence of predisposing risk factors. 0.5-1% of the population will develop schizophrenia, and for these susceptible individuals, a psychedelic trip can be the event that triggers the full-blown disorder. But so can any other significant psychological stressor, like the death of a family member or friend, or going off to college alone. But in general, psychedelic use is not correlated with mental disorders, in fact there are some studies that suggest that psychedelic users may have lower rates of depression, anxiety, and increased empathy and openness. oh, here's an interesting one I hadn't seen before: https://akjournals.com/view/journals/2054/aop/article-10.1556-2054.2021.00172/article-10.1556-2054.2021.00172.xml https://akjournals.com/view/journals/2054/aop/article-10.155... "Lifetime use of psychedelics is associated with better mental health indicators during the COVID-19 pandemic" But even if psychedelics were a causative risk in some mental disorders, shouldn't we as a society entrust adults to determine their own risk tolerance? We don't ban alcohol because a certain percentage of drinkers will develop alcoholism. We don't ban smoking even though it is a (or even THE?) leading cause of preventable death in the US. Why should other drugs be any different?
- iammisc 5y ago
  > But even if psychedelics were a causative risk in some mental disorders, shouldn't we as a society entrust adults to determine their own risk tolerance No, because such allowances are made with the assumption that people act reasonably. GK Chesterton said we should tolerate all thoughts except for the thought that stops thought. We can tolerate all kinds of insane thoughts. The only thought we cannot tolerate is the thought (the will to take LSD for 'fun') that has the potential to stop all thought. LSD, and other psychedelics, cause the breakdown of rationality that is the very reason we allow adults to make their own decisions. It is completely incoherent to allow LSD while also using adult cognitive skills as the basis of adult freedom.
  - lstodd 5y ago
    What an absolute bullshit. Seriously, you propose to deny adults freedom of thought because there are "wrong" thoughts, defined by "reasonability ", which isn't and can't be defined? In this line of thought your thoughts about banning thinking should be banned. See where this leads?

valec 5y ago

no, it's not. best estimates (admittedly poor) put the incidence around 1/50,000 for frequent users. considering the potential mental health uses and the extremely low toxicity (i'm not sure anybody has ever overdosed on lsd) banning psychedelics would be a huge mistake. and > They can turn functioning people into permanently non-functioning ones. It is an incredibly dangerous drug. applies to legal drugs too. alcohol for example. or painkillers or benzos.

iammisc 5y ago
One drink of alcohol is unlikely to lead you to become unstable. I don't know about the others. I didn't call for a blanket ban. LSD may have therapeutic uses (other debilitating drugs like paracetamol do), but the self-dosing that people do 'for fun' shouldn't be tolerated.
- scollet 5y ago
  You called for a blanket ban.
  - iammisc 5y ago
    Sorry, I figured doctor prescriptions were not included. My view is that they should be a controlled substance, the way they are now. You'd have to show amazing cognitive effects for an illness to legalize it for prescription. I don't know the science here though. By 'absolute ban' I mean they should be controlled, and classified as an illegal drug. This is not something people should self-medicate. Those using without a prescription or worse, distributing, should be jailed.

drew1492 5y ago

This is not true, or partially true at best. As far as I'm aware, current consensus is that psychedelics are not a causative agent in psychosis or schizophrenia in the absence of predisposing risk factors. 0.5-1% of the population will develop schizophrenia, and for these susceptible individuals, a psychedelic trip can be the event that triggers the full-blown disorder. But so can any other significant psychological stressor, like the death of a family member or friend, or going off to college alone. But in general, psychedelic use is not correlated with mental disorders, in fact there are some studies that suggest that psychedelic users may have lower rates of depression, anxiety, and increased empathy and openness. oh, here's an interesting one I hadn't seen before: https://akjournals.com/view/journals/2054/aop/article-10.1556-2054.2021.00172/article-10.1556-2054.2021.00172.xml https://akjournals.com/view/journals/2054/aop/article-10.155... "Lifetime use of psychedelics is associated with better mental health indicators during the COVID-19 pandemic" But even if psychedelics were a causative risk in some mental disorders, shouldn't we as a society entrust adults to determine their own risk tolerance? We don't ban alcohol because a certain percentage of drinkers will develop alcoholism. We don't ban smoking even though it is a (or even THE?) leading cause of preventable death in the US. Why should other drugs be any different?

iammisc 5y ago
> But even if psychedelics were a causative risk in some mental disorders, shouldn't we as a society entrust adults to determine their own risk tolerance No, because such allowances are made with the assumption that people act reasonably. GK Chesterton said we should tolerate all thoughts except for the thought that stops thought. We can tolerate all kinds of insane thoughts. The only thought we cannot tolerate is the thought (the will to take LSD for 'fun') that has the potential to stop all thought. LSD, and other psychedelics, cause the breakdown of rationality that is the very reason we allow adults to make their own decisions. It is completely incoherent to allow LSD while also using adult cognitive skills as the basis of adult freedom.
- lstodd 5y ago
  What an absolute bullshit. Seriously, you propose to deny adults freedom of thought because there are "wrong" thoughts, defined by "reasonability ", which isn't and can't be defined? In this line of thought your thoughts about banning thinking should be banned. See where this leads?