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> 'm not sure which game you're talking about, but I suspect you misunderstand the criticism. There have been thousands of female video game characters going ba

> 'm not sure which game you're talking about, but I suspect you misunderstand the criticism. There have been thousands of female video game characters going back to the dawn of the industry. Many titles which prominently feature female characters have done very well (e.g.., Tomb Raider, Final Fantasy, etc). I'm guessing there has never been significant controversy because a video game featured a female character, though no doubt there has been controversy about specific characters (e.g., Battlefield 1's and Battlefield V's wildly disproportionate emphasis on female WWI and WWII combatants) or about the cringe deployment of token diversity characters. My point is that there is any controversy when there is a game where the female main character is not explicitly sexualized. You are absolutely right that there are beloved female main characters, but they are almost always shown and viewed in a sexualized manner rather than as a human being. And yes, there are definitely 'sexualized' men (God of War) but they never seem to be explicitly in there as sexual objects rather than as part of the story. Like, if you took Lara Croft out and replaced her with a red square, would that game be regarded as the same? Probably not. People legit get mad about Aloy (Horizon Zero Dawn) being unattractive and "looking manly". Maybe not a massive controversy, but enough that I, someone who passively follows video game news, know about it. I agree thought that my original post was poorly worded and not specific enough about my perceived reception of female characters in video games. I was trying to incorporate "female main character" and "unattractive female characters" into one point and failed.

endtime 5y ago
> My point is that there is any controversy when there is a game where the female main character is not explicitly sexualized Samus Aran?
- a_t48 5y ago
  https://images.nintendolife.com/7ec23ee6efba1/zero-suit-samus-alternate-costumes-in-super-smash-bros-for-wii-u.original.jpg https://images.nintendolife.com/7ec23ee6efba1/zero-suit-samu... Yeah totally unsexualized Edit: yes, this is an image from Smash, but she gets a bikini picture in Fusion as a "reward"
  - 0xcde4c3db 5y ago
    There's also an infamous (at the time, anyway) shot of her in Other M. Of course, if you're familiar with the story it's obvious that there's nothing like sexual objectification involved. It makes perfect sense that she's on the floor unconscious in the Zero Suit with her ass pointed directly at the camera, because she was just attacked without warning by a man who she's uncharacteristically submissive toward. Uh, wait. That came out wrong. Can I start over?
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
  Your reward for beating Metroid faster is Samus wearing progressively less clothing at the end.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
People also got mad about Tifa's bust size apparently being reduced to a more realistic level in FF7R. It's nuts that we just kind of accept this as a culture.
- throwaway894345 5y ago
  We also accept a whole lot of impossibly jacked shirtless dudes but there's barely any public outcry against this. Even worse, video games are extraordinarily violent (I play lots of FPS games, so I'm not criticizing fans of violent games per se) and anyone concerned about the effects of violence on society is lambasted as a pearl-clutching conservative parent from the 1980s.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
    Both absolutely true. However, regarding overly jacked dudes, there is no history of women in gaming culture harassing developers for putting a beer gut on the male protagonist of a video game, nor any talk about "bulge physics" or whatever the equivalent of "jiggle physics" would be.
    - throwaway894345 5y ago
      I think that speaks to the relative paucity of women in "gaming culture" rather than the purity of women. Were there a concentrated community of female gamers, I wouldn't be surprised if they levied such complaints (consider for example any of the commentary on male Olympic divers in predominantly female circles).
    - buzer 5y ago
      > nor any talk about "bulge physics" https://old.reddit.com/r/GirlGamers/comments/adbb5b/devil_may_cry_5_got_jiggle_physics_for_something/ https://old.reddit.com/r/GirlGamers/comments/adbb5b/devil_ma...
- madamelic 5y ago
  I was thinking about that after walking away for a bit. I don't _hate_ sexualization of characters. Like, totally. Let's make sexy characters that we all adore, but let's not make it a default where female characters _have_ to be sexy. I am all for the ridiculous boob sliders or boob physics or whatever, I think it is just that there is an expectation in video games that a female character has to either be sexy or not exist. If there was a widely accepted place for female characters that are just another character, just a human being existing, just like male characters are, then we could have a space where you have those like hyper-attractive female characters just like games currently have the Adonis-attractive male characters.
throwaway894345 5y ago
> I agree thought that my original post was poorly worded and not specific enough about my perceived reception of female characters in video games. I was trying to incorporate "female main character" and "unattractive female characters" into one point and failed. Fair enough, thanks for acknowledging as much. :) > You are absolutely right that there are beloved female main characters, but they are almost always shown and viewed in a sexualized manner rather than as a human being. And yes, there are definitely 'sexualized' men (God of War) but they never seem to be explicitly in there as sexual objects rather than as part of the story. Like, if you took Lara Croft out and replaced her with a red square, would that game be regarded as the same? Probably not. Even still, Lara Croft seems like every bit as much a "human being" as the average male main character? And I don't buy your "red square" example--it's not like you could replace any of the ripped shirtless dudes in various video games with a red square and have the same experience either. I actually believe that female characters are probably sexualized a bit more often than male characters, and male characters are regarded as objects of violence quite a lot more than female characters. But if there is a loser here, it's not obvious to me that it's the female gender.
rustybelt 5y ago
What is wrong with sexualized characters anyway? It's escapist entertainment. Are men now forbidden from enjoying attractive women in media? Absolutely don't harass people or discriminate, but this posture against sexualized characters is weirdly puritanical, especially considering the long history in games of non-sexualized, empowered female protagonists.
- raxxorrax 5y ago
  > What is wrong with sexualized characters anyway? The answer probably heavily depends if you ask an US American or a Frenchmen. Same with bro culture, that I don't see intrinsic in tech and much more a product of other influences.

endtime 5y ago

> My point is that there is any controversy when there is a game where the female main character is not explicitly sexualized Samus Aran?

a_t48 5y ago
https://images.nintendolife.com/7ec23ee6efba1/zero-suit-samus-alternate-costumes-in-super-smash-bros-for-wii-u.original.jpg https://images.nintendolife.com/7ec23ee6efba1/zero-suit-samu... Yeah totally unsexualized Edit: yes, this is an image from Smash, but she gets a bikini picture in Fusion as a "reward"
- 0xcde4c3db 5y ago
  There's also an infamous (at the time, anyway) shot of her in Other M. Of course, if you're familiar with the story it's obvious that there's nothing like sexual objectification involved. It makes perfect sense that she's on the floor unconscious in the Zero Suit with her ass pointed directly at the camera, because she was just attacked without warning by a man who she's uncharacteristically submissive toward. Uh, wait. That came out wrong. Can I start over?
AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
Your reward for beating Metroid faster is Samus wearing progressively less clothing at the end.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago

People also got mad about Tifa's bust size apparently being reduced to a more realistic level in FF7R. It's nuts that we just kind of accept this as a culture.

throwaway894345 5y ago
We also accept a whole lot of impossibly jacked shirtless dudes but there's barely any public outcry against this. Even worse, video games are extraordinarily violent (I play lots of FPS games, so I'm not criticizing fans of violent games per se) and anyone concerned about the effects of violence on society is lambasted as a pearl-clutching conservative parent from the 1980s.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
  Both absolutely true. However, regarding overly jacked dudes, there is no history of women in gaming culture harassing developers for putting a beer gut on the male protagonist of a video game, nor any talk about "bulge physics" or whatever the equivalent of "jiggle physics" would be.
  - throwaway894345 5y ago
    I think that speaks to the relative paucity of women in "gaming culture" rather than the purity of women. Were there a concentrated community of female gamers, I wouldn't be surprised if they levied such complaints (consider for example any of the commentary on male Olympic divers in predominantly female circles).
  - buzer 5y ago
    > nor any talk about "bulge physics" https://old.reddit.com/r/GirlGamers/comments/adbb5b/devil_may_cry_5_got_jiggle_physics_for_something/ https://old.reddit.com/r/GirlGamers/comments/adbb5b/devil_ma...
madamelic 5y ago
I was thinking about that after walking away for a bit. I don't _hate_ sexualization of characters. Like, totally. Let's make sexy characters that we all adore, but let's not make it a default where female characters _have_ to be sexy. I am all for the ridiculous boob sliders or boob physics or whatever, I think it is just that there is an expectation in video games that a female character has to either be sexy or not exist. If there was a widely accepted place for female characters that are just another character, just a human being existing, just like male characters are, then we could have a space where you have those like hyper-attractive female characters just like games currently have the Adonis-attractive male characters.

throwaway894345 5y ago

> I agree thought that my original post was poorly worded and not specific enough about my perceived reception of female characters in video games. I was trying to incorporate "female main character" and "unattractive female characters" into one point and failed. Fair enough, thanks for acknowledging as much. :) > You are absolutely right that there are beloved female main characters, but they are almost always shown and viewed in a sexualized manner rather than as a human being. And yes, there are definitely 'sexualized' men (God of War) but they never seem to be explicitly in there as sexual objects rather than as part of the story. Like, if you took Lara Croft out and replaced her with a red square, would that game be regarded as the same? Probably not. Even still, Lara Croft seems like every bit as much a "human being" as the average male main character? And I don't buy your "red square" example--it's not like you could replace any of the ripped shirtless dudes in various video games with a red square and have the same experience either. I actually believe that female characters are probably sexualized a bit more often than male characters, and male characters are regarded as objects of violence quite a lot more than female characters. But if there is a loser here, it's not obvious to me that it's the female gender.

rustybelt 5y ago

What is wrong with sexualized characters anyway? It's escapist entertainment. Are men now forbidden from enjoying attractive women in media? Absolutely don't harass people or discriminate, but this posture against sexualized characters is weirdly puritanical, especially considering the long history in games of non-sexualized, empowered female protagonists.

raxxorrax 5y ago
> What is wrong with sexualized characters anyway? The answer probably heavily depends if you ask an US American or a Frenchmen. Same with bro culture, that I don't see intrinsic in tech and much more a product of other influences.