9 ms·

This is amazing. I built one to help my nephew walk, and now selling commercially ( http://trexorobotics.com http://trexorobotics.com ) I am fed-up at the lack

This is amazing. I built one to help my nephew walk, and now selling commercially ( http://trexorobotics.com http://trexorobotics.com ) I am fed-up at the lack of options available to individuals. People thought that everyone will get an exoskeleton and be able to walk with it everywhere. But the industry ran into many challenges. A big one that many dont understand is getting insurance coverage. The way the US healthcare system is designed, it will only cover restoration of mobility, not a restoration of function. So, from their perspective, a wheelchair and some pain meds can do the job easily. I believe that they key is to start with children, this is where you have families desperate for a solution, higher costs due to them growing and spending their entire life in a wheelchair, and the option to truly have a life changing impact. But things are changing, people are starting to notice the work that we are doing. We need a lot more people building exoskeletons and similar powered orthotics!!

blairbeckwith 5y ago
Just wanted to say thanks for building this.
sillysaurusx 5y ago
Talk about impactful work. I wonder how many lives you've changed. Well done. This is something close to miracle tech, at least for the people wearing it. I can't help but feel curious whether they're a viable alternative to wheelchairs, or if it's a temporary feeling (kind of like riding on a rollercoaster, in that you go and do it for the experience and then return to your normal life). But that's just my ignorance talking. Also, fuck the US insurance system. You won't find many topics that make me talk that way, but as I get older it feels something closer to pure evil. I've met so many people who have been screwed over by that system (and personally experienced my share of it). There's a woman I've been texting with who I met at a gas station. She was clearly in distress, so my wife and I offered her a ride home. To cut a long story short, she spent her fourth of july miserable, and when I raised the idea of getting prozac or some sort of antidepressant (my own "miracle tech"), she said "Oh, I used to be on that. I can't afford it because no insurance" and I practically flipped my phone onto the concrete. She could be living a normal and happy life. I can't imagine how much worse it is for parents who otherwise need to spend $thousands for alternative solutions like this. If you can make it in any way affordable, it'll change countless lives, I'm certain.
- sli 5y ago
  > Talk about impactful work. I wonder how many lives you've changed. $1000/mo for a rental. People without insurance need not apply.
  - stronglikedan 5y ago
    Everyone in the US has access to health insurance under Obamacare. Whether or not health insures will pay $1000/mo is a different issue.
  - Broken_Hippo 5y ago
    It doesn't always need to be expensive, but it also isn't always inexpensive upfront. And the comment you reply to makes a plea about the price. Price doesn't mean you haven't changed a lot of lives either: In addition, a lot of folks that can't walk are covered by some sort of government-provided insurance. Unfortunately, it doesn't really help all that much because insurance limitations don't always cover everything or cover enough. I'll also say that it is a lot for a single person/family: It isn't nearly as much at a daycare, school, physical therapy and other such things. I'd not be surprised if such places weren't their most common home.
  - asoneth 5y ago
    $1k a month seems downright cheap compared to many medical treatments. Hospital visits in the US average $11.7k for a full stay[1]. Antiviral treatments for Hepatitis C like Harvoni and Sovaldi cost $16k-90k for 12 weeks, though you can go with a generic version for $5k-10k a month. [1] https://www.debt.org/medical/hospital-surgery-costs/ https://www.debt.org/medical/hospital-surgery-costs/
    - chefkoch 5y ago
      Try cancer meds, Revlimid is 20k for the rest of your life or at least some years.
  - myth_drannon 5y ago
    Expensive, but many families spend more on physio and other professionals (150$-300$ per hour). When we are talking about children's health and future, parents will raid their pensions accounts, grandparent's etc... Hopefully once they get more popular, the government will pay for it to setup in Rehabilitation centers. From what I saw right now it's mostly private centers that are buying it (US/Canada).
chime 5y ago
> So, from their perspective, a wheelchair and some pain meds can do the job easily. And not even a good wheelchair. For my wife recently diagnosed with MS, they would only approve of a basic, featureless, uncomfortable one after I would pay the $3000 deductible plus 20% coinsurance. Instead, I got a light-weight folding electric wheelchair with nearly full-day worth of battery (15 miles), with a spare battery, adjustable headrest for $1300 off Amazon. Add an octopus-tripod fan with 10hr battery, golf-cart umbrella, bendable cane holder, bottle holder, and an A/C fan jacket for a total of $200 and now she is able to spend a few hours out with our kids at museums, aquariums, and zoos. It was literally cheaper for me to buy all of this cash than try to spend 40+ hours getting insurance approval. I absolutely love how practical and solid your product is. I cannot comment on the pricing because I have no idea what your costs/market is but if my kid needed $999/mo to walk, I would do literally anything to be able to afford it. Hopefully the costs keep coming down for those with a smaller budget. Good luck!
- nine_k 5y ago
  Great thing it works this way for mechanical tech. For chemicals, that is, medicines, paying out of pocket is not impossible, but much harder. The $1500 you invested will likely last a number of years. Or it might be a month worth of prescription drugs; cheap generics do not exist for everything (and may sometimes be inferior). I don't know a good way out of it. The U.S. medical insurance system sucks, but my friends from Germany and Netherlands report that theirs is even worse at providing any remotely advanced treatment.
  - londev 5y ago
    I’ve only managed to get more advanced treatment in the UK (still nothing ground breaking) by having private medical cover in addition to the national health care. Thankfully as the national health service covers all the basic care it’s possible to get private cover for around £40 per month.
    - nightfly 5y ago
      That sounds _really_ good, and kind of blows a big hole in a lot of arguments against universal health care. I pay more than that monthly for relatively basic medication and that's _with_ pretty good employer-funded insurance
jandrese 5y ago
I had thought when the Segway came out that a wheelchair version would follow shortly afterward where a person without functional legs could get on a saddle and move around quickly and at a typical human height so things on shelves aren't such a problem. Segway hit the market 20 years ago and it still has not happened. I get that there are a number of complications (getting on and off is a challenge), but it seems like it should be solvable. The technology has only improved over the years, especially the batteries. This should be doable.
- nradov 5y ago
  The wheelchair version actually came out before the Segway. https://news.yahoo.com/the-i-bot-a-mission-to-revolutionize-the-wheelchair-090002559.html https://news.yahoo.com/the-i-bot-a-mission-to-revolutionize-...
- jeffreygoesto 5y ago
  From my own (admittedly limited) experience with riding a Segway and my own (day to day) experience with a child that can't sit, stand or walk, I would guess that it is a) difficult to get in and out and b) difficult to balance and steer. Extra mechanical stabilizers are in the way when you finally are on/in and without the Segway was really stubborn and threw me and others off in the beginning. A person without proper sense and ability to balance, will have big problems getting onto it and off again with just the gyros running. Also balancing is a really difficult thing to do if you have the problems that forced you in a wheelchair in the first place. For people who are ok with the upper part of the body, and can lift themselves onto the machine, you might be right though. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a "used Segway" market that is cheap enough to attract hackers trying out new things with them.
- teruakohatu 5y ago
  Not long ago I saw a guy in a Segway-like wheel chair. It looked just like a regular wheelchair, with two wheels on each side. I spoke the owner and he loved it. Here is a Segway converted to a wheelchair here in New Zealand: https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/small-business/70065350/hands-free-wheelchair-prototype-ogo-built-in-kapiti-shed-of-dismantled-segway https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/small-business/70065350/han...
optymizer 5y ago
I was looking at the videos, and realized that maybe we don't need small exo-bones (societal expectations and normalcy aside), maybe it's easier to go the other way and make exo-robots, since they'd be bigger with more room for batteries, could balance on their own and a human could be sitting/standing inside, driving the legs with some input method - either with legs, or hand gestures. I'm picturing the robot in Avatar [1], but with an open top and much less threatening and not weaponized [2], like big robotic pants. If I were to quit my job, it would be to make human robot minotaurs a reality, but then again, what do I know about robots? [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6ttDZFmGqg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6ttDZFmGqg [2] https://www.pcmag.com/news/toyotas-latest-humanoid-robot-can-balance-on-one-leg https://www.pcmag.com/news/toyotas-latest-humanoid-robot-can...
- nradov 5y ago
  Anything wider than 32in won't fit through many doors.
- egypturnash 5y ago
  So basically The Wrong Trousers [1] except without the remote control that falls into the hand of an evil penguin disguised as a rooster. 1: https://d.ibtimes.co.uk/en/full/1386220/wallace-gromits-wrong-trousers.jpg?w=720 https://d.ibtimes.co.uk/en/full/1386220/wallace-gromits-wron...
ajoy 5y ago
Great work! FYI, your "Team" link in the footer is not loading properly.
pkaye 5y ago
I'm curious why it is so expensive though. Its works out to $36k paid over 3 years to own it.
- stronglikedan 5y ago
  Aren't most things overly expensive in the beginning, until the company can make enough profit to ramp up production? Tesla cars come to mind.
- brianwawok 5y ago
  Can you start a business to sell it for less and make a profit? If so you should. You will take the market. Capitalism is great.
- ezconnect 5y ago
  It looks expensive, and each machine is custom fitted to the users legs and also grows with the user. The market for it is really small to instantly lower the price.
bottled_poe 5y ago
Inspiring. You’re doing amazing work.
fortylove 5y ago
I don't have anything to add, but your product looks fantastic and I can only imagine the joy it brings to patients and families. Nice work!
sholladay 5y ago
I have a family member who needs something exactly like Trexo but for an adult. Are you able to make them for adults?
- myth_drannon 5y ago
  There are plenty of exoskeletons trainers for adults, Trexo novelty (well there is another device company in Sweden - Made For Movement ) is that they are targeting kids.
renewiltord 5y ago
I've always wondered about these devices. How do they work? Like they detect muscle contraction and amplify the motion? Or is it a purely mechanical device?
prawn 5y ago
Incredible story - the tech looks brilliant. What a contribution to your nephew, sibling and the world.
Neurocynic 5y ago
A big issue for industry is medical certification too. Have you done yours? An exoskeleton like yours falls under Class II medical device and would require, at the minimum, a 510(k) notification to be filed.
rubicon33 5y ago
What a truly awesome product and mission. Inspiring, to say the least. Are you hiring software engineers?
- rudasi 5y ago
  Hi, we are hiring, can you please message us at jobs@trexorobotics.com and just put hackernews in the subject.
aprdm 5y ago
Your Team page is giving a 404, was really curious ! Great job. This is truly Amazing.
ricopags 5y ago
Congrats on the amazing product! A minor note on the website: https://imgur.com/I6KA5uQ https://imgur.com/I6KA5uQ That's too much getting in my face without giving me a chance to browse. If I'm visiting the website, I'm probably going to be able to answer some of those questions without having these distracting offers thrown into my face immediately.
CountDrewku 5y ago
>The way the US healthcare system is designed, it will only cover restoration of mobility, not a restoration of function. You'll find that countries with socialized medicine won't cover more than that either. It's too expensive, regardless of whether your covered privately or publicly. Socialized medicine is typically much harsher on keeping costs down as well.

blairbeckwith 5y ago

Just wanted to say thanks for building this.

sillysaurusx 5y ago

Talk about impactful work. I wonder how many lives you've changed. Well done. This is something close to miracle tech, at least for the people wearing it. I can't help but feel curious whether they're a viable alternative to wheelchairs, or if it's a temporary feeling (kind of like riding on a rollercoaster, in that you go and do it for the experience and then return to your normal life). But that's just my ignorance talking. Also, fuck the US insurance system. You won't find many topics that make me talk that way, but as I get older it feels something closer to pure evil. I've met so many people who have been screwed over by that system (and personally experienced my share of it). There's a woman I've been texting with who I met at a gas station. She was clearly in distress, so my wife and I offered her a ride home. To cut a long story short, she spent her fourth of july miserable, and when I raised the idea of getting prozac or some sort of antidepressant (my own "miracle tech"), she said "Oh, I used to be on that. I can't afford it because no insurance" and I practically flipped my phone onto the concrete. She could be living a normal and happy life. I can't imagine how much worse it is for parents who otherwise need to spend $thousands for alternative solutions like this. If you can make it in any way affordable, it'll change countless lives, I'm certain.

sli 5y ago
> Talk about impactful work. I wonder how many lives you've changed. $1000/mo for a rental. People without insurance need not apply.
- stronglikedan 5y ago
  Everyone in the US has access to health insurance under Obamacare. Whether or not health insures will pay $1000/mo is a different issue.
- Broken_Hippo 5y ago
  It doesn't always need to be expensive, but it also isn't always inexpensive upfront. And the comment you reply to makes a plea about the price. Price doesn't mean you haven't changed a lot of lives either: In addition, a lot of folks that can't walk are covered by some sort of government-provided insurance. Unfortunately, it doesn't really help all that much because insurance limitations don't always cover everything or cover enough. I'll also say that it is a lot for a single person/family: It isn't nearly as much at a daycare, school, physical therapy and other such things. I'd not be surprised if such places weren't their most common home.
- asoneth 5y ago
  $1k a month seems downright cheap compared to many medical treatments. Hospital visits in the US average $11.7k for a full stay[1]. Antiviral treatments for Hepatitis C like Harvoni and Sovaldi cost $16k-90k for 12 weeks, though you can go with a generic version for $5k-10k a month. [1] https://www.debt.org/medical/hospital-surgery-costs/ https://www.debt.org/medical/hospital-surgery-costs/
  - chefkoch 5y ago
    Try cancer meds, Revlimid is 20k for the rest of your life or at least some years.
- myth_drannon 5y ago
  Expensive, but many families spend more on physio and other professionals (150$-300$ per hour). When we are talking about children's health and future, parents will raid their pensions accounts, grandparent's etc... Hopefully once they get more popular, the government will pay for it to setup in Rehabilitation centers. From what I saw right now it's mostly private centers that are buying it (US/Canada).

chime 5y ago

> So, from their perspective, a wheelchair and some pain meds can do the job easily. And not even a good wheelchair. For my wife recently diagnosed with MS, they would only approve of a basic, featureless, uncomfortable one after I would pay the $3000 deductible plus 20% coinsurance. Instead, I got a light-weight folding electric wheelchair with nearly full-day worth of battery (15 miles), with a spare battery, adjustable headrest for $1300 off Amazon. Add an octopus-tripod fan with 10hr battery, golf-cart umbrella, bendable cane holder, bottle holder, and an A/C fan jacket for a total of $200 and now she is able to spend a few hours out with our kids at museums, aquariums, and zoos. It was literally cheaper for me to buy all of this cash than try to spend 40+ hours getting insurance approval. I absolutely love how practical and solid your product is. I cannot comment on the pricing because I have no idea what your costs/market is but if my kid needed $999/mo to walk, I would do literally anything to be able to afford it. Hopefully the costs keep coming down for those with a smaller budget. Good luck!

nine_k 5y ago
Great thing it works this way for mechanical tech. For chemicals, that is, medicines, paying out of pocket is not impossible, but much harder. The $1500 you invested will likely last a number of years. Or it might be a month worth of prescription drugs; cheap generics do not exist for everything (and may sometimes be inferior). I don't know a good way out of it. The U.S. medical insurance system sucks, but my friends from Germany and Netherlands report that theirs is even worse at providing any remotely advanced treatment.
- londev 5y ago
  I’ve only managed to get more advanced treatment in the UK (still nothing ground breaking) by having private medical cover in addition to the national health care. Thankfully as the national health service covers all the basic care it’s possible to get private cover for around £40 per month.
  - nightfly 5y ago
    That sounds _really_ good, and kind of blows a big hole in a lot of arguments against universal health care. I pay more than that monthly for relatively basic medication and that's _with_ pretty good employer-funded insurance

jandrese 5y ago

I had thought when the Segway came out that a wheelchair version would follow shortly afterward where a person without functional legs could get on a saddle and move around quickly and at a typical human height so things on shelves aren't such a problem. Segway hit the market 20 years ago and it still has not happened. I get that there are a number of complications (getting on and off is a challenge), but it seems like it should be solvable. The technology has only improved over the years, especially the batteries. This should be doable.

nradov 5y ago
The wheelchair version actually came out before the Segway. https://news.yahoo.com/the-i-bot-a-mission-to-revolutionize-the-wheelchair-090002559.html https://news.yahoo.com/the-i-bot-a-mission-to-revolutionize-...
jeffreygoesto 5y ago
From my own (admittedly limited) experience with riding a Segway and my own (day to day) experience with a child that can't sit, stand or walk, I would guess that it is a) difficult to get in and out and b) difficult to balance and steer. Extra mechanical stabilizers are in the way when you finally are on/in and without the Segway was really stubborn and threw me and others off in the beginning. A person without proper sense and ability to balance, will have big problems getting onto it and off again with just the gyros running. Also balancing is a really difficult thing to do if you have the problems that forced you in a wheelchair in the first place. For people who are ok with the upper part of the body, and can lift themselves onto the machine, you might be right though. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a "used Segway" market that is cheap enough to attract hackers trying out new things with them.
teruakohatu 5y ago
Not long ago I saw a guy in a Segway-like wheel chair. It looked just like a regular wheelchair, with two wheels on each side. I spoke the owner and he loved it. Here is a Segway converted to a wheelchair here in New Zealand: https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/small-business/70065350/hands-free-wheelchair-prototype-ogo-built-in-kapiti-shed-of-dismantled-segway https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/small-business/70065350/han...

optymizer 5y ago

I was looking at the videos, and realized that maybe we don't need small exo-bones (societal expectations and normalcy aside), maybe it's easier to go the other way and make exo-robots, since they'd be bigger with more room for batteries, could balance on their own and a human could be sitting/standing inside, driving the legs with some input method - either with legs, or hand gestures. I'm picturing the robot in Avatar [1], but with an open top and much less threatening and not weaponized [2], like big robotic pants. If I were to quit my job, it would be to make human robot minotaurs a reality, but then again, what do I know about robots? [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6ttDZFmGqg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6ttDZFmGqg [2] https://www.pcmag.com/news/toyotas-latest-humanoid-robot-can-balance-on-one-leg https://www.pcmag.com/news/toyotas-latest-humanoid-robot-can...

nradov 5y ago
Anything wider than 32in won't fit through many doors.
egypturnash 5y ago
So basically The Wrong Trousers [1] except without the remote control that falls into the hand of an evil penguin disguised as a rooster. 1: https://d.ibtimes.co.uk/en/full/1386220/wallace-gromits-wrong-trousers.jpg?w=720 https://d.ibtimes.co.uk/en/full/1386220/wallace-gromits-wron...

ajoy 5y ago

Great work! FYI, your "Team" link in the footer is not loading properly.

pkaye 5y ago

I'm curious why it is so expensive though. Its works out to $36k paid over 3 years to own it.

stronglikedan 5y ago
Aren't most things overly expensive in the beginning, until the company can make enough profit to ramp up production? Tesla cars come to mind.
brianwawok 5y ago
Can you start a business to sell it for less and make a profit? If so you should. You will take the market. Capitalism is great.
ezconnect 5y ago
It looks expensive, and each machine is custom fitted to the users legs and also grows with the user. The market for it is really small to instantly lower the price.

bottled_poe 5y ago

Inspiring. You’re doing amazing work.

fortylove 5y ago

I don't have anything to add, but your product looks fantastic and I can only imagine the joy it brings to patients and families. Nice work!

sholladay 5y ago

I have a family member who needs something exactly like Trexo but for an adult. Are you able to make them for adults?

myth_drannon 5y ago
There are plenty of exoskeletons trainers for adults, Trexo novelty (well there is another device company in Sweden - Made For Movement ) is that they are targeting kids.

renewiltord 5y ago

I've always wondered about these devices. How do they work? Like they detect muscle contraction and amplify the motion? Or is it a purely mechanical device?

prawn 5y ago

Incredible story - the tech looks brilliant. What a contribution to your nephew, sibling and the world.

Neurocynic 5y ago

A big issue for industry is medical certification too. Have you done yours? An exoskeleton like yours falls under Class II medical device and would require, at the minimum, a 510(k) notification to be filed.

rubicon33 5y ago

What a truly awesome product and mission. Inspiring, to say the least. Are you hiring software engineers?

rudasi 5y ago
Hi, we are hiring, can you please message us at jobs@trexorobotics.com and just put hackernews in the subject.

aprdm 5y ago

Your Team page is giving a 404, was really curious ! Great job. This is truly Amazing.

ricopags 5y ago

Congrats on the amazing product! A minor note on the website: https://imgur.com/I6KA5uQ https://imgur.com/I6KA5uQ That's too much getting in my face without giving me a chance to browse. If I'm visiting the website, I'm probably going to be able to answer some of those questions without having these distracting offers thrown into my face immediately.

CountDrewku 5y ago

>The way the US healthcare system is designed, it will only cover restoration of mobility, not a restoration of function. You'll find that countries with socialized medicine won't cover more than that either. It's too expensive, regardless of whether your covered privately or publicly. Socialized medicine is typically much harsher on keeping costs down as well.