7 ms·

How will the investors get their money back on this investment?

by shoto_io 5y ago

factorialboy 5y ago
Self-managed Slack / Teams alternative for enterprise users?
- Tomte 5y ago
  I'd rather see Zulip adopted.
  - factorialboy 5y ago
    That's fine, I'm just exploring monetization options, not making any claims of superiority.
  - dijit 5y ago
    Seeing the Rust-lang zulip has absolutely ruined slack for me.
scrollaway 5y ago
Matrix is a protocol. There's a lot of tooling and applications to be made around said protocol, plenty of which could be sold on on a license basis, support for enterprises etc. Matrix has a fantastic B2B potential. It's just early.
- raxxorrax 5y ago
  It should be mentioned that it also allows for distributed authentication providers (home servers). A very important feature and big tech strategy is not hiding this. But you can keep Google, Apple, Microsoft and similar completely out of the loop. The name of the protocol is very badly chosen though.
  - scrollaway 5y ago
    Do you know if they have a mechanism for hosted servers with your own domain name yet? This feels like a big thing missing for wider enthusiast adoption.
    - raxxorrax 5y ago
      To be honest, I am no expert on Matrix, but I thought you can just host your own server on your own domain. That was the base assumption for my comment and I hope that is correct. They have a server reference component (synapse) that you could host anywhere I think.
      - scrollaway 5y ago
        Right but maybe you don't want to host your own server, but do want your own domain. Like emails.
        karmanyaahm 5y ago
        That's not possible yet, see https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-doc/blob/neilalexander/identities/proposals/2787-portable-identities.md#goals https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-doc/blob/neilalexander/...
        karmanyaahm 5y ago
        That's not possible yet, see this proposal https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-doc/blob/neilalexander/identities/proposals/2787-portable-identities.md#goals https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-doc/blob/neilalexander/...
        cvwright 5y ago
        The proposal that you linked is all about portable identities, tied to public keys. Is that really necessary for Element to host a server on a user's domain? I would have thought it would work just like outsourcing your web server or your email service. You generate a DNS name and point it at their IP address. Then they get a certificate and start serving traffic for your domain. Easy peasy.
- rvz 5y ago
  Exactly. The Matrix ecosystem is already used by governments in European countries and healthcare providers as well so that justifies the valuation of this fundraising round. The enterprise potential for the Matrix ecosystem which includes Element is almost like what GitLab has done but for Git services and much more. > The majority of the core team is now employed by Element, an independent company set up to hire the team and support Matrix's development. Other contributors are funded by their own employers or donate their own time to the project. At least they are not fully reliant on donations and they have a solid way of making money.
- goodpoint 5y ago
  That does not answer the question.
tadfisher 5y ago
They receive shares of the company's stock, which is a security that can be exchanged for other forms of value, including money.
sprash 5y ago
They won't. Matrix is a meta data sponge hence it is heavily sponsored by the intelligence community. Truly descentralized and peer-to-peer solutions like Jami won't recieve such funding.
- yuchi 5y ago
  Interesting take. Do you have any reference to back these allegations up? (Honestly interested)
  - callahad 5y ago
    I work at Element. At first blush, https://serpentsec.1337.cx/matrix https://serpentsec.1337.cx/matrix seems like a fair writeup of Matrix protocol metadata, with examples, by a third party.
    - easygenes 5y ago
      What's your take on this analysis? https://lukesmith.xyz/articles/matrix-vs-xmpp https://lukesmith.xyz/articles/matrix-vs-xmpp It seems like the connection to Amdocs and their interest in collecting metadata for surveillance is a stain on the privacy-focused image.
      - olah_1 5y ago
        It is interesting that the funding from them happened very early on, at the same time as the design of the protocol itself. Now it is too late to rethink the design to be less of a honeypot. So the only solution is P2P matrix. But even P2P matrix will need some way to back up the metadata so it’s saved between sessions. So again the honeypot seems unavoidable.
      - Arathorn 5y ago
        that analysis seems to be a hatchet job in favour of XMPP, complete with a deeply unpleasant undertone of antisemitism...
normaler 5y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27906336 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27906336 In this case for example Matrix has been choosen as the Protocol to be used to connect all manner of Healthcareproviders, Healthinsurances and State Entitys in the Health sector in the future. This is a highly fractured environment where there is alot of distrust and animosity between all the parties. I see this e.g. as an incredible chance to provide matrix related services even for small companies in germany.
- robertwt7 5y ago
  It’s really cool to see how people can foresee how to monetize these kind of startups whereas myself as a developer have been struggling to think the potential in the business side.
- rapsey 5y ago
  Meh that is a pretty terrible place to try and make money. The only thing worse may be trying to sell to schools.
  - normaler 5y ago
    Try not to think about hospitals, but more about all the individual doctors offices that also need to be connect to this environment and don't have to to go through a EU wide bidding process. E.g. there are more than thousand software solutions that are registered with the health insurance companies to manage patient data and billing processes.
the_duke 5y ago
Element sells business plans. [1] In addition, Matrix has been chosen for quite a few large deployments by governments, so there presumably are large-ish support contracts associated with those. If that's enough to justify a 30 Million round is another question. > there are no plans to use cryptocurrency incentives in Matrix or Element any time soon Note the wording here... "any time soon" is quite different from "no plans, period". [1] https://element.io/pricing https://element.io/pricing
- darthrupert 5y ago
  Slack's valuation in 2019 was over 20B. 30M ain't much.
  - SahAssar 5y ago
    Why do you think Element is trying to optimize for short term valuations?
hestefisk 5y ago
Matrix / Element also run a private chat service for the French government to get their employees off Slack and WhatsApp for sensitive comms. I bet that has paid a decent support contract.

How will the investors get their money back on this investment?

factorialboy 5y ago

Self-managed Slack / Teams alternative for enterprise users?

Tomte 5y ago
I'd rather see Zulip adopted.
- factorialboy 5y ago
  That's fine, I'm just exploring monetization options, not making any claims of superiority.
- dijit 5y ago
  Seeing the Rust-lang zulip has absolutely ruined slack for me.

scrollaway 5y ago

Matrix is a protocol. There's a lot of tooling and applications to be made around said protocol, plenty of which could be sold on on a license basis, support for enterprises etc. Matrix has a fantastic B2B potential. It's just early.

raxxorrax 5y ago
It should be mentioned that it also allows for distributed authentication providers (home servers). A very important feature and big tech strategy is not hiding this. But you can keep Google, Apple, Microsoft and similar completely out of the loop. The name of the protocol is very badly chosen though.
- scrollaway 5y ago
  Do you know if they have a mechanism for hosted servers with your own domain name yet? This feels like a big thing missing for wider enthusiast adoption.
  - raxxorrax 5y ago
    To be honest, I am no expert on Matrix, but I thought you can just host your own server on your own domain. That was the base assumption for my comment and I hope that is correct. They have a server reference component (synapse) that you could host anywhere I think.
    - scrollaway 5y ago
      Right but maybe you don't want to host your own server, but do want your own domain. Like emails.
      - karmanyaahm 5y ago
        That's not possible yet, see https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-doc/blob/neilalexander/identities/proposals/2787-portable-identities.md#goals https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-doc/blob/neilalexander/...
      - karmanyaahm 5y ago
        That's not possible yet, see this proposal https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-doc/blob/neilalexander/identities/proposals/2787-portable-identities.md#goals https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-doc/blob/neilalexander/...
        cvwright 5y ago
        The proposal that you linked is all about portable identities, tied to public keys. Is that really necessary for Element to host a server on a user's domain? I would have thought it would work just like outsourcing your web server or your email service. You generate a DNS name and point it at their IP address. Then they get a certificate and start serving traffic for your domain. Easy peasy.
rvz 5y ago
Exactly. The Matrix ecosystem is already used by governments in European countries and healthcare providers as well so that justifies the valuation of this fundraising round. The enterprise potential for the Matrix ecosystem which includes Element is almost like what GitLab has done but for Git services and much more. > The majority of the core team is now employed by Element, an independent company set up to hire the team and support Matrix's development. Other contributors are funded by their own employers or donate their own time to the project. At least they are not fully reliant on donations and they have a solid way of making money.
goodpoint 5y ago
That does not answer the question.

tadfisher 5y ago

They receive shares of the company's stock, which is a security that can be exchanged for other forms of value, including money.

sprash 5y ago

They won't. Matrix is a meta data sponge hence it is heavily sponsored by the intelligence community. Truly descentralized and peer-to-peer solutions like Jami won't recieve such funding.

yuchi 5y ago
Interesting take. Do you have any reference to back these allegations up? (Honestly interested)
- callahad 5y ago
  I work at Element. At first blush, https://serpentsec.1337.cx/matrix https://serpentsec.1337.cx/matrix seems like a fair writeup of Matrix protocol metadata, with examples, by a third party.
  - easygenes 5y ago
    What's your take on this analysis? https://lukesmith.xyz/articles/matrix-vs-xmpp https://lukesmith.xyz/articles/matrix-vs-xmpp It seems like the connection to Amdocs and their interest in collecting metadata for surveillance is a stain on the privacy-focused image.
    - olah_1 5y ago
      It is interesting that the funding from them happened very early on, at the same time as the design of the protocol itself. Now it is too late to rethink the design to be less of a honeypot. So the only solution is P2P matrix. But even P2P matrix will need some way to back up the metadata so it’s saved between sessions. So again the honeypot seems unavoidable.
    - Arathorn 5y ago
      that analysis seems to be a hatchet job in favour of XMPP, complete with a deeply unpleasant undertone of antisemitism...

normaler 5y ago

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27906336 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27906336 In this case for example Matrix has been choosen as the Protocol to be used to connect all manner of Healthcareproviders, Healthinsurances and State Entitys in the Health sector in the future. This is a highly fractured environment where there is alot of distrust and animosity between all the parties. I see this e.g. as an incredible chance to provide matrix related services even for small companies in germany.

robertwt7 5y ago
It’s really cool to see how people can foresee how to monetize these kind of startups whereas myself as a developer have been struggling to think the potential in the business side.
rapsey 5y ago
Meh that is a pretty terrible place to try and make money. The only thing worse may be trying to sell to schools.
- normaler 5y ago
  Try not to think about hospitals, but more about all the individual doctors offices that also need to be connect to this environment and don't have to to go through a EU wide bidding process. E.g. there are more than thousand software solutions that are registered with the health insurance companies to manage patient data and billing processes.

the_duke 5y ago

Element sells business plans. [1] In addition, Matrix has been chosen for quite a few large deployments by governments, so there presumably are large-ish support contracts associated with those. If that's enough to justify a 30 Million round is another question. > there are no plans to use cryptocurrency incentives in Matrix or Element any time soon Note the wording here... "any time soon" is quite different from "no plans, period". [1] https://element.io/pricing https://element.io/pricing

darthrupert 5y ago
Slack's valuation in 2019 was over 20B. 30M ain't much.
- SahAssar 5y ago
  Why do you think Element is trying to optimize for short term valuations?

hestefisk 5y ago

Matrix / Element also run a private chat service for the French government to get their employees off Slack and WhatsApp for sensitive comms. I bet that has paid a decent support contract.