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It makes sense. Intel marketing must be kicking themselves with all the press about them not being on 10nm while TSMC is on 5 even though 7nm is the best anyone

It makes sense. Intel marketing must be kicking themselves with all the press about them not being on 10nm while TSMC is on 5 even though 7nm is the best anyone but apple can get from TSMC and Intel's 10nm is (marginally)better than TSMC's 7.

mysterydip 5y ago
Sounds like the "equivalent speed" advertising war back in the day between Intel and AMD.
lumost 5y ago
So there is a weird factor here that we only know what intel tells us about 10nm. The actual parts that have shipped on 10nm have not been competitive with AMD parts at 7nm, or Apple at 5nm. When Apple/AMD were shipping Intel beating parts folks were quick to dismiss it as a byproduct of TSMC's process. Is intel's chip design so much worse that AMD can trounce them on a substantially worse process? Or is Intel 10nm just not very good.
- monocasa 5y ago
  When the chips worked they had better perf/gate, but Intel had a lot of yield issues, making the perf/$ ratio worse.
  - adrian_b 5y ago
    Not true. The 10 nm Intel Ice Lake Server has much worse perf/W than the 7 nm Epyc made by TSMC, and this is what matters. That means that at the same power limit and the same number of active cores the Ice Lake Server clock frequency is much lower, or at the same clock frequency and same number of active cores the power consumption of Ice Lake Server is much higher. The SuperFin 10 nm process used by Tiger Lake allows much higher maximum clock frequencies, up to 5.0 GHz, than the Ice Lake Server 10 nm process, and it also has a better perf/W, but even the SuperFin 10 nm does not reach the perf/W of the 7 nm TSMC process. If the previous claims made by Intel are true, the process used for Alder Lake, now renamed "Intel 7" will be the first Intel process that is better in perf/W than the 7 nm TSMC process. Nevertheless, it will be still worse than the "5 nm" process that has been used by TSMC in high volume products (Apple) for more than a year.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
- chx 5y ago
  > The actual parts that have shipped on 10nm have not been competitive with AMD parts at 7nm, Tiger Lake H closed the gap, it seems. The 11980HK is competitive with 5900HX. Also, the first Alder Lake benchmarks on QS chips suggest it's faster than Ryzen 5950x. I believe the competition will be fierce from now on.

mysterydip 5y ago

Sounds like the "equivalent speed" advertising war back in the day between Intel and AMD.

lumost 5y ago

So there is a weird factor here that we only know what intel tells us about 10nm. The actual parts that have shipped on 10nm have not been competitive with AMD parts at 7nm, or Apple at 5nm. When Apple/AMD were shipping Intel beating parts folks were quick to dismiss it as a byproduct of TSMC's process. Is intel's chip design so much worse that AMD can trounce them on a substantially worse process? Or is Intel 10nm just not very good.

monocasa 5y ago
When the chips worked they had better perf/gate, but Intel had a lot of yield issues, making the perf/$ ratio worse.
- adrian_b 5y ago
  Not true. The 10 nm Intel Ice Lake Server has much worse perf/W than the 7 nm Epyc made by TSMC, and this is what matters. That means that at the same power limit and the same number of active cores the Ice Lake Server clock frequency is much lower, or at the same clock frequency and same number of active cores the power consumption of Ice Lake Server is much higher. The SuperFin 10 nm process used by Tiger Lake allows much higher maximum clock frequencies, up to 5.0 GHz, than the Ice Lake Server 10 nm process, and it also has a better perf/W, but even the SuperFin 10 nm does not reach the perf/W of the 7 nm TSMC process. If the previous claims made by Intel are true, the process used for Alder Lake, now renamed "Intel 7" will be the first Intel process that is better in perf/W than the 7 nm TSMC process. Nevertheless, it will be still worse than the "5 nm" process that has been used by TSMC in high volume products (Apple) for more than a year.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
chx 5y ago
> The actual parts that have shipped on 10nm have not been competitive with AMD parts at 7nm, Tiger Lake H closed the gap, it seems. The 11980HK is competitive with 5900HX. Also, the first Alder Lake benchmarks on QS chips suggest it's faster than Ryzen 5950x. I believe the competition will be fierce from now on.