4 ms·

I feel like Jailbreaking was much more of a thing about 10-12 years ago when the iPhone 3G/3GS and 4 came out. Around that time iOS was still pretty limited in

I feel like Jailbreaking was much more of a thing about 10-12 years ago when the iPhone 3G/3GS and 4 came out. Around that time iOS was still pretty limited in what you could do . So Jailbreaking gave you the ability to: - Set a background wallpaper - Reply to SMS in a quick reply window (I still miss BiteSMS) - Create albums in Photos. - An "Android Like" (back then) quick toggle. Nowdays all these features and more are part of iOS, but back then Jailbreaking let you do so many things that Apple hadn't gotten around to including in iOS.

dpedu 5y ago
The primary point of jailbreaking is to be able to run native apps not approved by or banned by Apple and that is something you still cannot do.
- isodev 5y ago
  Yes, it’s very unfortunate when an app is not available for some reason. In most cases it’s a valid reason - the app is malicious, poorly made or somehow in conflict with local law. Also imagine if you are an app developer an suddenly your project (on which you’ve spent countless hours of hard work) is unexpectedly leaked as freely available for download and side-loading. I’m not talking big Corps like epic and blizzard … but people like you and me. Open source apps can be loaded easily, so developers who really want to make their stuff available can still do so and users won’t need to hack their phones to get such apps. But of course this can’t happen en masse.
  - dpedu 5y ago
    The affect of piracy is generally overstated and commonly bundled with the (incorrect) belief that a pirate would instead be a paying customer if the piracy option was not available.
    - draugadrotten 5y ago
      The Steam model appears to be way better. I am buying 10x more things on Steam than I will ever have time to use, while I generally avoid Appstore as much as possible for Mac apps (and even for phone apps when there is an alternative) The psychology of the Steam store is very different from the Appstore.
      - danieldk 5y ago
        while I generally avoid Appstore as much as possible for Mac apps Interesting, I do the opposite. When something is available in the Mac App Store or through other means, I will generally buy it in the App Store. Why? Application sandboxing is mandatory for Mac App Store apps and I strongly prefer that applications are sandboxed by default. The second, less important, reason is that I can just install the applications with just one click and don't have to download them from different places, look up their serial numbers, etc.
        realityking 5y ago
        Agreed. I‘ve even rebought some apps on the App Store just for the security and convenience. That said, I‘m struggling with the constraints Apple puts on the business models of developers, for example when it comes to upgrade pricing. While I have a fair amount of software Mac/iOS subscriptions running (8 by my current count) there‘s definitely software I passed on because it moved to a subscription model.
- jsjohnst 5y ago
  > that is something you still cannot do Factually wrong. You can run apps on iOS without jailbreaking that weren’t approved by Apple, or even ones banned by Apple. This has been true for years. Yes, the required resigning of the app every seven days is a major hindrance, but it is still something you very much CAN do.
  - dpedu 5y ago
    That's true but becoming a developer is outside what's being discussed here. Non-developers jailbreak too. Let alone the extra expense and equipment besides the phone itself you're going to need.
    - jsjohnst 5y ago
      > That's true but becoming a developer is outside what's being discussed here. Pure anecdata, but the vast majority of folks I see talking about AltStore outside HN are not developers. YMMV!
  - techrat 5y ago
    A temporary cert only able to be created on another Apple system is not what I would say is an 'allowing' of running third party apps. It is a kludge designed to make the process as unpleasant as possible but just so enough that Apple can claim they don't block sideloading. It's disingenuous.
    - jsjohnst 5y ago
      > A temporary cert only able to be created on another Apple system You don’t need an Apple system to codesign. Two results on first page of search results: https://github.com/zhlynn/zsign https://github.com/zhlynn/zsign https://weisser-zwerg.dev/posts/ios-app-without-mac/ https://weisser-zwerg.dev/posts/ios-app-without-mac/ > make the process as unpleasant as possible but just so enough that Apple can claim they don't block sideloading Apple doesn’t claim they don’t block side-loading. Actually I believe they claim the opposite in the Epic case (even though it is possible via a supported process) because it was “necessary to ensure the safety of their user base” or something like that. > It's disingenuous Shifting goal posts from “you can’t” to “you can’t without X” once someone points out the first was factually incorrect is considered disingenuous by many too. (Edit for formatting and provide links)
techrat 5y ago
> Around that time iOS was still pretty limited in what you could do I'd argue it still is. I can't install a third party web browser that doesn't use WebKit. I can't select alternative default apps to most apps bundled with the OS. I still can't unlock the bootloader. I still can't browse the entire filesystem. People who espouse the virtues of jailbreaking on iOS tend to forget one big thing... the exploits that are used to jailbreak are also exploits used by malware creators to compromise the system.
- haswell 5y ago
  The difference between then and now is that back then, the limitations impacted the average user. “Normal” users were interested in jailbreaking because it meant they could get access to still relatively basic apps by today’s standards. The items you just listed matter only to people like the posters here. We have philosophical differences with the limitations in place today, but back in the heyday, those limitations were just fundamental gaps in functionality available to users. With the many major new APIs available to devs over the years and with the maturation of the App Store, those original drivers behind jailbreaking just aren’t there for the most part.
  - sudosysgen 5y ago
    Most of my average iPhone using friends have an issue with the filesystem being opaque relatively frequently.
    - barsonme 5y ago
      Most of my friends don’t even know what a file system is, so I’d say having opinions about it puts them above average.
      - dvdkon 5y ago
        In my case, the iPhone users around me bump into barriers that wouldn't be there if iOS didn't keep all data in inaccessible silos, but they don't see them as such. For example, someone wanted to back up all their iMessage conversations, including photos. This turned out to be a pain precisely because I couldn't just copy an "all iMessage data" folder like I could on macOS, but they didn't attribute it to the lack of filesystem access. To them (and most users presumably), it was just a problem of "why doesn't the iPhone let me back up iMessage to my computer easily?".

dpedu 5y ago

The primary point of jailbreaking is to be able to run native apps not approved by or banned by Apple and that is something you still cannot do.

isodev 5y ago
Yes, it’s very unfortunate when an app is not available for some reason. In most cases it’s a valid reason - the app is malicious, poorly made or somehow in conflict with local law. Also imagine if you are an app developer an suddenly your project (on which you’ve spent countless hours of hard work) is unexpectedly leaked as freely available for download and side-loading. I’m not talking big Corps like epic and blizzard … but people like you and me. Open source apps can be loaded easily, so developers who really want to make their stuff available can still do so and users won’t need to hack their phones to get such apps. But of course this can’t happen en masse.
- dpedu 5y ago
  The affect of piracy is generally overstated and commonly bundled with the (incorrect) belief that a pirate would instead be a paying customer if the piracy option was not available.
  - draugadrotten 5y ago
    The Steam model appears to be way better. I am buying 10x more things on Steam than I will ever have time to use, while I generally avoid Appstore as much as possible for Mac apps (and even for phone apps when there is an alternative) The psychology of the Steam store is very different from the Appstore.
    - danieldk 5y ago
      while I generally avoid Appstore as much as possible for Mac apps Interesting, I do the opposite. When something is available in the Mac App Store or through other means, I will generally buy it in the App Store. Why? Application sandboxing is mandatory for Mac App Store apps and I strongly prefer that applications are sandboxed by default. The second, less important, reason is that I can just install the applications with just one click and don't have to download them from different places, look up their serial numbers, etc.
      - realityking 5y ago
        Agreed. I‘ve even rebought some apps on the App Store just for the security and convenience. That said, I‘m struggling with the constraints Apple puts on the business models of developers, for example when it comes to upgrade pricing. While I have a fair amount of software Mac/iOS subscriptions running (8 by my current count) there‘s definitely software I passed on because it moved to a subscription model.
jsjohnst 5y ago
> that is something you still cannot do Factually wrong. You can run apps on iOS without jailbreaking that weren’t approved by Apple, or even ones banned by Apple. This has been true for years. Yes, the required resigning of the app every seven days is a major hindrance, but it is still something you very much CAN do.
- dpedu 5y ago
  That's true but becoming a developer is outside what's being discussed here. Non-developers jailbreak too. Let alone the extra expense and equipment besides the phone itself you're going to need.
  - jsjohnst 5y ago
    > That's true but becoming a developer is outside what's being discussed here. Pure anecdata, but the vast majority of folks I see talking about AltStore outside HN are not developers. YMMV!
- techrat 5y ago
  A temporary cert only able to be created on another Apple system is not what I would say is an 'allowing' of running third party apps. It is a kludge designed to make the process as unpleasant as possible but just so enough that Apple can claim they don't block sideloading. It's disingenuous.
  - jsjohnst 5y ago
    > A temporary cert only able to be created on another Apple system You don’t need an Apple system to codesign. Two results on first page of search results: https://github.com/zhlynn/zsign https://github.com/zhlynn/zsign https://weisser-zwerg.dev/posts/ios-app-without-mac/ https://weisser-zwerg.dev/posts/ios-app-without-mac/ > make the process as unpleasant as possible but just so enough that Apple can claim they don't block sideloading Apple doesn’t claim they don’t block side-loading. Actually I believe they claim the opposite in the Epic case (even though it is possible via a supported process) because it was “necessary to ensure the safety of their user base” or something like that. > It's disingenuous Shifting goal posts from “you can’t” to “you can’t without X” once someone points out the first was factually incorrect is considered disingenuous by many too. (Edit for formatting and provide links)

techrat 5y ago

> Around that time iOS was still pretty limited in what you could do I'd argue it still is. I can't install a third party web browser that doesn't use WebKit. I can't select alternative default apps to most apps bundled with the OS. I still can't unlock the bootloader. I still can't browse the entire filesystem. People who espouse the virtues of jailbreaking on iOS tend to forget one big thing... the exploits that are used to jailbreak are also exploits used by malware creators to compromise the system.

haswell 5y ago
The difference between then and now is that back then, the limitations impacted the average user. “Normal” users were interested in jailbreaking because it meant they could get access to still relatively basic apps by today’s standards. The items you just listed matter only to people like the posters here. We have philosophical differences with the limitations in place today, but back in the heyday, those limitations were just fundamental gaps in functionality available to users. With the many major new APIs available to devs over the years and with the maturation of the App Store, those original drivers behind jailbreaking just aren’t there for the most part.
- sudosysgen 5y ago
  Most of my average iPhone using friends have an issue with the filesystem being opaque relatively frequently.
  - barsonme 5y ago
    Most of my friends don’t even know what a file system is, so I’d say having opinions about it puts them above average.
    - dvdkon 5y ago
      In my case, the iPhone users around me bump into barriers that wouldn't be there if iOS didn't keep all data in inaccessible silos, but they don't see them as such. For example, someone wanted to back up all their iMessage conversations, including photos. This turned out to be a pain precisely because I couldn't just copy an "all iMessage data" folder like I could on macOS, but they didn't attribute it to the lack of filesystem access. To them (and most users presumably), it was just a problem of "why doesn't the iPhone let me back up iMessage to my computer easily?".