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With different transit measures, there will be more livable communities available, freeing up that family of 5 to move somewhere where they don't need to take s

With different transit measures, there will be more livable communities available, freeing up that family of 5 to move somewhere where they don't need to take such long winded trips in the first place.

bpodgursky 5y ago
Maybe? But like... you'd basically have to live within a very short walk of a grocery store, b/c hauling groceries for 5 people w/ 3 children is uh... ambitious. So you're living in an apartment building, or townhouse at best. So I guess no yard, not urban enough. And since the best you're going to get is a corner store or very small grocer, I hope you're not looking for any bulk items or specialty stuff. God forbid you ever need to go to a hardware store. Maybe you're rich, and can afford delivery groceries? And I guess you're never really going out for a hike or anything outside the city proper, because taking a 3-stop transit to get to a hiking trail becomes a full-day affair, aka impossible. I think at the end of the day, nobody is _actually_ going to do this, which plays out by the low-fertility stats of European cities. You've got 1-2 kids at most. I think we need to be honest in these discussions and admit that dense urban communities do not practically support anything other than small families. Which isn't something everyone is happy with.
- wbsss4412 5y ago
  Yards are great, but in well designed urban environments you have access to parks, a lot of the problem here is that people want to have their own private spaces for everything. Groceries are actually far better if you’re not forced to buy in bulk, how many people end up throwing out spoiled produce because they bought too much at once and don’t use it all? The car based grocery shopping model really isn’t great for your health. Further, you end up with _far_ more diverse grocery options in a dense environment, because your neighborhood ends up supporting far more stores.
  - josephcsible 5y ago
    > people want to have their own private spaces for everything. For good reason. Last spring, people in single-family homes in suburbs could let their kids play outside in their yard, but people in high-density housing in cities would get arrested for letting their kids play outside in public parks.
    - wbsss4412 5y ago
      So we should build our entire lives completely around the basis of a once in 100 years level pandemic? I’m not implying that there are no benefits to private space, there’s trades to both public and private spaces, but the balance is all on one side in North America, and we need to have a conversation about those issues rather than just saying it has to be the way it is because it already is that way.
jcims 5y ago
This isn't true for everyone of course, but young families of five are typically going to be heavily dependent upon family for a while and are generally going to move (or stay) where the family is. Plus, there are perfectly livable communities available today, ones with generally lower crime, lower pollution, lower costs, less traffic, more green space and better public schools than urban areas (in the US at least). The downside is you generally need a car to navigate them.

bpodgursky 5y ago

Maybe? But like... you'd basically have to live within a very short walk of a grocery store, b/c hauling groceries for 5 people w/ 3 children is uh... ambitious. So you're living in an apartment building, or townhouse at best. So I guess no yard, not urban enough. And since the best you're going to get is a corner store or very small grocer, I hope you're not looking for any bulk items or specialty stuff. God forbid you ever need to go to a hardware store. Maybe you're rich, and can afford delivery groceries? And I guess you're never really going out for a hike or anything outside the city proper, because taking a 3-stop transit to get to a hiking trail becomes a full-day affair, aka impossible. I think at the end of the day, nobody is _actually_ going to do this, which plays out by the low-fertility stats of European cities. You've got 1-2 kids at most. I think we need to be honest in these discussions and admit that dense urban communities do not practically support anything other than small families. Which isn't something everyone is happy with.

wbsss4412 5y ago
Yards are great, but in well designed urban environments you have access to parks, a lot of the problem here is that people want to have their own private spaces for everything. Groceries are actually far better if you’re not forced to buy in bulk, how many people end up throwing out spoiled produce because they bought too much at once and don’t use it all? The car based grocery shopping model really isn’t great for your health. Further, you end up with _far_ more diverse grocery options in a dense environment, because your neighborhood ends up supporting far more stores.
- josephcsible 5y ago
  > people want to have their own private spaces for everything. For good reason. Last spring, people in single-family homes in suburbs could let their kids play outside in their yard, but people in high-density housing in cities would get arrested for letting their kids play outside in public parks.
  - wbsss4412 5y ago
    So we should build our entire lives completely around the basis of a once in 100 years level pandemic? I’m not implying that there are no benefits to private space, there’s trades to both public and private spaces, but the balance is all on one side in North America, and we need to have a conversation about those issues rather than just saying it has to be the way it is because it already is that way.

jcims 5y ago

This isn't true for everyone of course, but young families of five are typically going to be heavily dependent upon family for a while and are generally going to move (or stay) where the family is. Plus, there are perfectly livable communities available today, ones with generally lower crime, lower pollution, lower costs, less traffic, more green space and better public schools than urban areas (in the US at least). The downside is you generally need a car to navigate them.