5 ms·

Moxie Marlinspike is famously belligerent against Signal forks, so no, the license does not really help here.

sneak 5y ago
It does. You are allowed to fork or reimplement the Signal client, and even distribute it, with the official Signal servers configured, so long as you do not infringe the Signal trademark. They don't like forks using their servers, but it's the users who connect to their servers, not the fork publisher. Those users are permitted to connect via the TOS, which is independent from the GPL.
- lwhi 5y ago
  They also refuse to open source their server software. This is the problem in my mind. Open source in words, but not spirit.
  - h_anna_h 5y ago
    This is false https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Server https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Server
    - lwhi 5y ago
      So are you telling me I can run my signal server and use it to communicate with others on the signal network?
      - h_anna_h 5y ago
        I am telling you that "They also refuse to open source their server software." is false.
        chithanh 5y ago
        Signal typically delay releasing the server source code, so the latest version of the server is not open source. In one case it took them almost a year (no public commits between 20 April 2020 and 6 April 2021). https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Android/issues/11101#issuecomment-798900367 https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Android/issues/11101#iss... Among the official reasons given was staying ahead of spammers. In this instance it was also speculated that the payment function which they were building into the server was to remain secret. https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Android/issues/11101#issuecomment-815400676 https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Android/issues/11101#iss...
        tablespoon 5y ago
        One of the biggest problems with open source software is enormously entitled users; who don't pay for it, don't work on it, yet feel remarkably offended when some whim of theirs is not catered to. Just saying.
        chithanh 5y ago
        If you call it a "whim" if I point out that the latest version of the Signal server is proprietary software most of the time then so be it. Or maybe you are referring to the other commenters who were entitled to expect that the one critical task of a crypto messenger is ensuring the confidentiality of communication, which has been broken by this bug (and at least one similar bug before it, https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Android/issues/7909 https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Android/issues/7909 ). You can both be grateful that Signal is free and at the same time call out shenanigans of its owners. Just saying.
        tablespoon 5y ago
        > If you call it a "whim" if I point out that the latest version of the Signal server is proprietary software most of the time then so be it. For whimsical definitions of "proprietary." > Or maybe you are referring to the other commenters who were entitled to expect... Anyone who feels entitled to bug free software is going to be disappointed, and rightly so. > You can both be grateful that Signal is free and at the same time call out shenanigans of its owners. Just saying. Remember: they're giving this stuff to you for free. There's a wise expression that's worth remembering: "don't look a gift horse in the mouth." But if you don't want to take that advice, then you're https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zq7Eki5EZ8o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zq7Eki5EZ8o.
      - growse 5y ago
        You can run your signal server and use it to communicate with others on your signal network. The openness or otherwise of the code has literally nothing to do with the terms of use of any service being run.
        lwhi 5y ago
        No. The product _is_ the network. By restricting access to the network, access to the product is also curtailed.
        growse 5y ago
        You originally asked about running your signal server. Now you're talking about the network that's hosted through Signal Inc's servers. So what's your point? Do you think everyone should have a right to connect to their servers however they like, and the service operator can't exert any control over that?
      - sneak 5y ago
        You seem to be confusing open source for a federated protocol. Signal is not federated, as an explicit design decision. The source code for the server and the client are both free software.
  - sneak 5y ago
    Not only is it false as has already been pointed out, it doesn't matter at all. There is nothing stopping them from silently running a fork.
    - lwhi 5y ago
      As far as I'm aware, I have to use the official server if I wish to communicate via the platform. If this isn't true, I'd be very interested to learn more.

It does. You are allowed to fork or reimplement the Signal client, and even distribute it, with the official Signal servers configured, so long as you do not infringe the Signal trademark. They don't like forks using their servers, but it's the users who connect to their servers, not the fork publisher. Those users are permitted to connect via the TOS, which is independent from the GPL.

lwhi 5y ago
They also refuse to open source their server software. This is the problem in my mind. Open source in words, but not spirit.
- h_anna_h 5y ago
  This is false https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Server https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Server
  - lwhi 5y ago
    So are you telling me I can run my signal server and use it to communicate with others on the signal network?
    - h_anna_h 5y ago
      I am telling you that "They also refuse to open source their server software." is false.
      - chithanh 5y ago
        Signal typically delay releasing the server source code, so the latest version of the server is not open source. In one case it took them almost a year (no public commits between 20 April 2020 and 6 April 2021). https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Android/issues/11101#issuecomment-798900367 https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Android/issues/11101#iss... Among the official reasons given was staying ahead of spammers. In this instance it was also speculated that the payment function which they were building into the server was to remain secret. https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Android/issues/11101#issuecomment-815400676 https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Android/issues/11101#iss...
        tablespoon 5y ago
        One of the biggest problems with open source software is enormously entitled users; who don't pay for it, don't work on it, yet feel remarkably offended when some whim of theirs is not catered to. Just saying.
        chithanh 5y ago
        If you call it a "whim" if I point out that the latest version of the Signal server is proprietary software most of the time then so be it. Or maybe you are referring to the other commenters who were entitled to expect that the one critical task of a crypto messenger is ensuring the confidentiality of communication, which has been broken by this bug (and at least one similar bug before it, https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Android/issues/7909 https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Android/issues/7909 ). You can both be grateful that Signal is free and at the same time call out shenanigans of its owners. Just saying.
        tablespoon 5y ago
        > If you call it a "whim" if I point out that the latest version of the Signal server is proprietary software most of the time then so be it. For whimsical definitions of "proprietary." > Or maybe you are referring to the other commenters who were entitled to expect... Anyone who feels entitled to bug free software is going to be disappointed, and rightly so. > You can both be grateful that Signal is free and at the same time call out shenanigans of its owners. Just saying. Remember: they're giving this stuff to you for free. There's a wise expression that's worth remembering: "don't look a gift horse in the mouth." But if you don't want to take that advice, then you're https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zq7Eki5EZ8o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zq7Eki5EZ8o.
    - growse 5y ago
      You can run your signal server and use it to communicate with others on your signal network. The openness or otherwise of the code has literally nothing to do with the terms of use of any service being run.
      - lwhi 5y ago
        No. The product _is_ the network. By restricting access to the network, access to the product is also curtailed.
        growse 5y ago
        You originally asked about running your signal server. Now you're talking about the network that's hosted through Signal Inc's servers. So what's your point? Do you think everyone should have a right to connect to their servers however they like, and the service operator can't exert any control over that?
    - sneak 5y ago
      You seem to be confusing open source for a federated protocol. Signal is not federated, as an explicit design decision. The source code for the server and the client are both free software.
- sneak 5y ago
  Not only is it false as has already been pointed out, it doesn't matter at all. There is nothing stopping them from silently running a fork.
  - lwhi 5y ago
    As far as I'm aware, I have to use the official server if I wish to communicate via the platform. If this isn't true, I'd be very interested to learn more.