5 ms·

Every time this comes up, someone shows up to say it doesn’t matter what exercise program you follow. That’s not correct. There’s a big difference between some

Every time this comes up, someone shows up to say it doesn’t matter what exercise program you follow. That’s not correct. There’s a big difference between someone lifting weights somewhere near their genetic capacity and someone spending many hours per week racking up long, slow distance on the road. Or someone spending a few hours waving one pound dumbbells around. If you want to be able to get out of your chair at 95 and not develop osteoporosis, you need to engage in load bearing exercise. If you want to add cardio to that - do it faster. You’ll get your HR to 80%, no problem. I’m 80. I lift about twice a week for about 90 min each time. On the off days, I walk for an hour, usually over hills, since walking on the flat doesn’t get my HR up enough, and I don’t want to stress my knees by jogging. I think the lady looks great, probably a lot better than she would if she was a runner.

TaupeRanger 5y ago
Some real Nassim Taleb style advice right here. As a guy in his mid-30s, I'm glad to have come across this kind of advice early on so I can keep up healthy habits for the later decades (assuming I'm not hit by a meteor first).
- mi_lk 5y ago
  > Nassim Taleb style advice what does that mean
  - TaupeRanger 5y ago
    He's a popular author that offers very similar advice as far as lifting and walking.
- michaelcampbell 5y ago
  It if were Nassim Taleb advice, it'd use 10x the number of words, and glorify Nassim Taleb's advice given by Nassim Taleb.
mandeepj 5y ago
> I walk for an hour, usually over hills, since walking on the flat doesn’t get my HR up enough, and I don’t want to stress my knees by jogging >usually over hills Are you sure that's also not stressing your knees?
- wrycoder 5y ago
  It’s comparable to walking on the flat. But, you have to be really careful on the downhill parts - that’s what gets the knees. I was surprised to notice that it takes me longer to go down than up - and I think that’s good. Jogging is different. I tried that a few years ago and my knees started acting up.
  - CodeGlitch 5y ago
    Try hiking sticks, it takes the pressure off the knees for the downhills.
  - amanaplanacanal 5y ago
    Try getting rid of the padded shoes. They are an abomination. Invented by Nike to make money, but they had no idea what they were doing and that they would ruin everybody’s knees.
  - zemvpferreira 5y ago
    Have you had a look at kneesovertoesguy? He's a trainer specialised in knee rehab, specifically helping athletes who've had multiple injuries/surgeries recover strength and range of motiong. I've done his programs for a while and learned lots of new things - big surprise as I had been lifting for 15 years before. For the first time in my life I have an easy ass-to-grass squat and massively reduced my knee pain.
    - wrycoder 5y ago
      When I was in my early 70s, I thought I'd work up to jogging again. Started easy, walk, jog, walk, jog, etc. This went on for about six months, until I got to about 50%. I was using a minimalist shoe. My knees started to bother me to the point where I finally had to stop. The pain and stiffness didn't go away. It got to the point where I was picking up my left leg with my hand to get it into the car like some old geezer! I started searching the web and came up with a supplement containing glucosamine and condroitin, along with a small amount of inflammatories to promote healing. Got gradually better, and in six months the stiffness vanished. I stopped using it, and have been fine since. Sometimes I think about a 5K ;-) A few years ago, my wife developed pain in her hip and knee joints. I suggested she try the same stuff, and, sure enough, the pains went away. She's still using it. This is all anecdotal, of course. I've never had an actual injury, just joint issues.
swader999 5y ago
Yep. I'm fifty and lifting just so I can still do activities like skiing and windsurfing at a level I'm happy about.
blunte 5y ago
Relative to TFA, _any_ consistent movement and activity is a net gain. In that perspective, it really does not matter what program you follow as long as it gets you moving. This wasn't about optimal. If you ask me personally what I think optimal is, I think it's 5 sets of 5 with big weights, squats deads and bench. Mix in some other cardio activity 1-2 times a week, and you'll be a relative superhero. But we're talking about people who have health problems and no history of exercise activity. For them, just starting to move is a huge step forward. This lady probably wouldn't have reached 80 if she had continued on her current path. If we tell people like this, "you must lift weights", we will lost most of them. I have taught a few women to lift, even tiny ones, and of course they can learn and be very strong. But there's a serious stigma when it comes to weight lifting and women. They either think it's impossible, or they think they will end up looking like the woman in the article. Now I'm a fan of built women, but most women seem to really NOT want to look like that.
- wrycoder 5y ago
  Your regimen sounds great. Agreed, it's hard to get people going, but once they're going, they should be encouraged to advance. Running is mostly a solitary sport. Lifting can be communal. Slow and steady does it. If you hurt yourself by overdoing it when you are getting old, it will take much longer to recover.
- edanm 5y ago
  Kind of side topic, but - do you think 5x5 is a good idea for 80+ year olds? From what I know, at an older age, the chance of injury, not to mention the danger of injury, is way higher. The standard advice afaik is therefore to aim for lower weight / higher reps, because the risk of injury is therefore greatly reduced. Not saying that 5x5 is necessarily incorrect, just that I would imagine a 8-10 rep based routine would be better for purposes of injury reduction (while still improving muscle conditioning, obviously).
  - wrycoder 5y ago
    I don’t follow 5x5, I recommend startingstrength.com. I use three sets of five following a good warmup. Look at The Barbell Prescription book for more details - it’s about strength training after 40. Good form is important, and a trained coach can help with that.
briankelly 5y ago
Running, done properly, builds muscle, joint, and bone strength (it seems you are implying that it doesn't). Of course, there is plenty wrong in the world of casual running where runners try to rack up mileage without ever looking at pace or their running form. Serious runners won't disagree with you there. But the same dynamic exists in other sports, including weightlifting. Plenty of causal weight lifters focus on the weight they are pushing exclusively and never consider their bodyfat, go on "dirty bulks" or permanently injure themselves with poor form or pushing it too far (also see CrossFit). For most people, having a couple of different and reasonably different physical activities, and sticking to them, is going to be enough. The most important thing is that people actually use their bodies into old age. Exercise isn't the rocket science people make it out to be.
- zemvpferreira 5y ago
  I have nothing against running as a form of exercise, but let's not pretend it builds muscle optimally or is in any way, shape or form conductive to good joint health. It's a repetitive, low-ROM, impact-based sport. It's fun and rewarding and good for your circulation or burning massive amounts of calories, but that's it. Bodybuilding (done properly) is about as close to perfect for maintaining a functioning body into old age as you can design an activity: It's easily scalable from zero to infinity, has regression and progression to your abilities built in, and huge benefits from even the smallest investment. It can be performed with basically no impact. It improves joint health. It helps you train to perform every day activities. It can easily be modified to cope with injuries, missing limbs, whatever limitation you have. It benefits you hormonally in a massive way. etc etc I'm 36. I do about 14 hours of tennis/surf every week, plus maybe 2 hours of gym work and lots of moving around during the day for my construction work. I love my sports but my body would be a wreck if it weren't for the resistance exercise I do to prepare/rehabilitate it. I would do a lot more of it if I were smart.
  - lenkite 5y ago
    Depends on what kind of running are you doing. HIT all-out interval sprinting is truly extraordinary for weight-loss and muscle gain. I find it far, far more fun than lifting weights. But then I prefer to exercise outdoors after sitting at a desk all day.
lr4444lr 5y ago
Can't upvote this enough. Also, you don't need to wait until old age to see that this is true. I am half your age and even though I thought I was "fit", chronic pain from years of sitting jobs revealed when I got to physical therapy that I had weaknesses in multiple muscles, many of which absolutely needed to be worked directly in order to reduce the pain, and my gym and calisthenics habits weren't doing it. Our peak species health as hunter/gatherers had us doing a wide variety of strength maintaining movements that physiology and rehab medicine is only just starting to understand. It's unbelievable for example how there are guys who can squat over 250 lbs. deeply but can't do a single one legged squat even near the same depth. Glad I got my wake up call before I got too old to do much about it.

TaupeRanger 5y ago

Some real Nassim Taleb style advice right here. As a guy in his mid-30s, I'm glad to have come across this kind of advice early on so I can keep up healthy habits for the later decades (assuming I'm not hit by a meteor first).

mi_lk 5y ago
> Nassim Taleb style advice what does that mean
- TaupeRanger 5y ago
  He's a popular author that offers very similar advice as far as lifting and walking.
michaelcampbell 5y ago
It if were Nassim Taleb advice, it'd use 10x the number of words, and glorify Nassim Taleb's advice given by Nassim Taleb.

mandeepj 5y ago

> I walk for an hour, usually over hills, since walking on the flat doesn’t get my HR up enough, and I don’t want to stress my knees by jogging >usually over hills Are you sure that's also not stressing your knees?

wrycoder 5y ago
It’s comparable to walking on the flat. But, you have to be really careful on the downhill parts - that’s what gets the knees. I was surprised to notice that it takes me longer to go down than up - and I think that’s good. Jogging is different. I tried that a few years ago and my knees started acting up.
- CodeGlitch 5y ago
  Try hiking sticks, it takes the pressure off the knees for the downhills.
- amanaplanacanal 5y ago
  Try getting rid of the padded shoes. They are an abomination. Invented by Nike to make money, but they had no idea what they were doing and that they would ruin everybody’s knees.
- zemvpferreira 5y ago
  Have you had a look at kneesovertoesguy? He's a trainer specialised in knee rehab, specifically helping athletes who've had multiple injuries/surgeries recover strength and range of motiong. I've done his programs for a while and learned lots of new things - big surprise as I had been lifting for 15 years before. For the first time in my life I have an easy ass-to-grass squat and massively reduced my knee pain.
  - wrycoder 5y ago
    When I was in my early 70s, I thought I'd work up to jogging again. Started easy, walk, jog, walk, jog, etc. This went on for about six months, until I got to about 50%. I was using a minimalist shoe. My knees started to bother me to the point where I finally had to stop. The pain and stiffness didn't go away. It got to the point where I was picking up my left leg with my hand to get it into the car like some old geezer! I started searching the web and came up with a supplement containing glucosamine and condroitin, along with a small amount of inflammatories to promote healing. Got gradually better, and in six months the stiffness vanished. I stopped using it, and have been fine since. Sometimes I think about a 5K ;-) A few years ago, my wife developed pain in her hip and knee joints. I suggested she try the same stuff, and, sure enough, the pains went away. She's still using it. This is all anecdotal, of course. I've never had an actual injury, just joint issues.

swader999 5y ago

Yep. I'm fifty and lifting just so I can still do activities like skiing and windsurfing at a level I'm happy about.

blunte 5y ago

Relative to TFA, _any_ consistent movement and activity is a net gain. In that perspective, it really does not matter what program you follow as long as it gets you moving. This wasn't about optimal. If you ask me personally what I think optimal is, I think it's 5 sets of 5 with big weights, squats deads and bench. Mix in some other cardio activity 1-2 times a week, and you'll be a relative superhero. But we're talking about people who have health problems and no history of exercise activity. For them, just starting to move is a huge step forward. This lady probably wouldn't have reached 80 if she had continued on her current path. If we tell people like this, "you must lift weights", we will lost most of them. I have taught a few women to lift, even tiny ones, and of course they can learn and be very strong. But there's a serious stigma when it comes to weight lifting and women. They either think it's impossible, or they think they will end up looking like the woman in the article. Now I'm a fan of built women, but most women seem to really NOT want to look like that.

wrycoder 5y ago
Your regimen sounds great. Agreed, it's hard to get people going, but once they're going, they should be encouraged to advance. Running is mostly a solitary sport. Lifting can be communal. Slow and steady does it. If you hurt yourself by overdoing it when you are getting old, it will take much longer to recover.
edanm 5y ago
Kind of side topic, but - do you think 5x5 is a good idea for 80+ year olds? From what I know, at an older age, the chance of injury, not to mention the danger of injury, is way higher. The standard advice afaik is therefore to aim for lower weight / higher reps, because the risk of injury is therefore greatly reduced. Not saying that 5x5 is necessarily incorrect, just that I would imagine a 8-10 rep based routine would be better for purposes of injury reduction (while still improving muscle conditioning, obviously).
- wrycoder 5y ago
  I don’t follow 5x5, I recommend startingstrength.com. I use three sets of five following a good warmup. Look at The Barbell Prescription book for more details - it’s about strength training after 40. Good form is important, and a trained coach can help with that.

briankelly 5y ago

Running, done properly, builds muscle, joint, and bone strength (it seems you are implying that it doesn't). Of course, there is plenty wrong in the world of casual running where runners try to rack up mileage without ever looking at pace or their running form. Serious runners won't disagree with you there. But the same dynamic exists in other sports, including weightlifting. Plenty of causal weight lifters focus on the weight they are pushing exclusively and never consider their bodyfat, go on "dirty bulks" or permanently injure themselves with poor form or pushing it too far (also see CrossFit). For most people, having a couple of different and reasonably different physical activities, and sticking to them, is going to be enough. The most important thing is that people actually use their bodies into old age. Exercise isn't the rocket science people make it out to be.

zemvpferreira 5y ago
I have nothing against running as a form of exercise, but let's not pretend it builds muscle optimally or is in any way, shape or form conductive to good joint health. It's a repetitive, low-ROM, impact-based sport. It's fun and rewarding and good for your circulation or burning massive amounts of calories, but that's it. Bodybuilding (done properly) is about as close to perfect for maintaining a functioning body into old age as you can design an activity: It's easily scalable from zero to infinity, has regression and progression to your abilities built in, and huge benefits from even the smallest investment. It can be performed with basically no impact. It improves joint health. It helps you train to perform every day activities. It can easily be modified to cope with injuries, missing limbs, whatever limitation you have. It benefits you hormonally in a massive way. etc etc I'm 36. I do about 14 hours of tennis/surf every week, plus maybe 2 hours of gym work and lots of moving around during the day for my construction work. I love my sports but my body would be a wreck if it weren't for the resistance exercise I do to prepare/rehabilitate it. I would do a lot more of it if I were smart.
- lenkite 5y ago
  Depends on what kind of running are you doing. HIT all-out interval sprinting is truly extraordinary for weight-loss and muscle gain. I find it far, far more fun than lifting weights. But then I prefer to exercise outdoors after sitting at a desk all day.

lr4444lr 5y ago

Can't upvote this enough. Also, you don't need to wait until old age to see that this is true. I am half your age and even though I thought I was "fit", chronic pain from years of sitting jobs revealed when I got to physical therapy that I had weaknesses in multiple muscles, many of which absolutely needed to be worked directly in order to reduce the pain, and my gym and calisthenics habits weren't doing it. Our peak species health as hunter/gatherers had us doing a wide variety of strength maintaining movements that physiology and rehab medicine is only just starting to understand. It's unbelievable for example how there are guys who can squat over 250 lbs. deeply but can't do a single one legged squat even near the same depth. Glad I got my wake up call before I got too old to do much about it.