5 ms·

This seems to be a pure scam if it's true. Not even a bait and switch.

by san9128 5y ago

jeroenhd 5y ago
I get the sentiment, but can something free really be a scam?
- cturner 5y ago
  When a service operates in bad faith, it is a scam.
- rudian 5y ago
  It’s still an agreement. Countries sign those all the time and nobody pays anything.
- josephcsible 5y ago
  Imagine if someone gave you a free bookshelf. You took it home and loaded it up with books. Then they came back and said that unless you gave them $1000, the bookshelf and all the books on it were theirs now. Would you not consider that a scam either?
  - jeroenhd 5y ago
    I don't believe any physical metaphor counts here. No goods exchange hands here. In fact, in many cases, customers aren't even the technical owners of the domain, merely the licensees. DNS, especially dealing in domain names, is a service. In this case, I'd say they provide you with free newsletters if you sign up. If you send out enough newsletters to others, they stop giving you free stuff and you have to pay. I've found this in the terms and conditions: --- 11.2. Renewal As long as you have remained in compliance with each of the terms of this Agreement from the date you agreed to be bound by this Agreement, including without limitation the minimum use requirements set forth in Section 10.1, we may elect in our sole discretion to (i) allow you to upgrade to the Paid Service at the prevailing applicable rate, (ii) automatically renew this Agreement for a term, determined by Freenom, from such date (the "Renewal Period") and (iii) continue providing you with FREE DOMAIN subject to the terms and conditions of this Agreement (including a renewal of the registration of the domain name provided to you in connection with FREE DOMAIN). --- This seems pretty clear to me. At the end of a term (which can be a month or a year) they can decide to require upgrading to a paid subscription. If you choose not to renew for the paid plan, your domain will be resold like any domain reseller will do. The main problem I see here is the lack of a renewal notice. I've always received renewal warnings myself, but always with high spam scores (because free TLDs are often used for sending spam). This could be a problem with the customer's spam filter filtering out the right renewal notices. This doesn't look as much like a scam as it looks like looking a gift horse in the mouth in my opinion.
    - kenniskrag 5y ago
      You also own the domain only if you paid: > As a PAID domain name registrant, you receive the benefits of holding the legal license rights of the domain name.
  - throwawaycities 5y ago
    It’s more akin to any other domain registrar that offers a discount for the 1st year of registration. Or a hosting company that gives you a “free” 1 year domain registration with paid hosting. That’s not a scam or fraud when the renewal period rolls around and the annual fee increases from the discount rate or you have to pay for the 1st time. The scam/fraud seems to be the review alleging the reviewer had a high traffic domain name that was just taken without notice so Freenom could sell it.
    - konschubert 5y ago
      Freenom doesn't sell the domain at the nominal fee, they put it up for auction. They also hide this fact from their victims until it's too late.
      - throwawaycities 5y ago
        I have registered at least a dozen for the standard fee (~$10/year).
  - belorn 5y ago
    A bookshelf is a problematic comparison since we do have devices that people buy that has a built in bookshelf, one that can remove books at the company discretion. The digital books you loaded it up with at home is not owned by you, nor do you have any natural right to the book or the bookshelf. However, they won't lock it up and demand payment. They simply just lock it up at the discretion of the company. The digital bookshelf will record and analyze what you read which is a bit of switch-and-bait tactic.
- bastawhiz 5y ago
  Yes, because it's not a net-zero outcome. More harm has been done to you than if you hadn't used their service at all. If I give you a free car under the pretense that I'm a cool guy who gives away free cars, and you use that car to get a job delivering pizza, then I take back the car unless you give me money, that's a scam. You've been scammed. I've committed fraud to make money from you after I've put you in a vulnerable position.
  - kadoban 5y ago
    Is that actually a scam? Sounds like you just got free use of car for a while, how are you worse off? In Freenom's case, you are giving the domain name value by using it and driving traffic to it. It didn't have value to begin with. The same thing isn't true in the car analogy.
    - bastawhiz 5y ago
      Yes, it's still a scam. The domain was not provided with the assumption that it would be taken away. Nobody starts an online business with the expectation that they're only borrowing the domain and will need to pay what essentially a ransom. If you replace the car in my analogy with a house, it's even clearer. It's hard to change where you live for a ton of reasons. Demanding unexpected payment is a scam, because I wasn't anticipating paying under the agreement, and I'm left with little choice in the matter (lest I become homeless). If I start a profitable business with a domain that's taken from me, I'm either forced to pay this ransom or start my business from scratch. > It didn't have value to begin with But your use of it created value, with the expectation that you would be able to keep that value. The deception that the value is not actually yours to keep makes it a scam. It's especially scammy, since they seemingly only do this to domains valuable enough to extract meaningful value from: they're selectively targeting valuable properties to extort.
      - kadoban 5y ago
        To be clear, I agree that Freenom's behavior is a scam. I've been on board with that the whole time. The car analogy seems questionable-at-best to me though, yeah it doesn't have the same elements. A car isn't hard to switch out, and you're not adding any value to it by using it. At worst you're right back where you started. The house analogy does seem better because it's hard to switch.
- layoutIfNeeded 5y ago
  If I install an internet-connected smart lock on your door for free, then after a few months, I remotely lock you out of your apartment and demand money for letting you in, am I really scamming you? It was free after all!
  - throwawaycities 5y ago
    If you buy a Tesla and they give you a certain driving mode for Free for X months, then Tesla disables it after X months unless you pay for it that’s not a scam. When I register a domain with Godaddy and they charge me $12.99 for the first year and then $18.99 for subsequent years it’s not a scam. But when Freenom give you a free domain registration for up to 12 months and then makes you pay for it to renew after the free registration period or to transfer to 3rd parties it is a scam? Note, I do actually think the Tesla thing was a scam and fraud because they never disclosed to buyers certain software features were temporary as part of a trial period and would cost thousands of dollars after the trial period. Freenom on the other hand discloses the limited free registration period and the $10 annual registration fees, like Godaddy discloses the 1st year discount.
    - layoutIfNeeded 5y ago
      >Freenom on the other hand discloses the limited free registration period and the $10 annual registration fees When the company literally has FREE in its name, and their site is covered with ads boasting “FREE DOMAIN NAMES”, I don’t think that disclosing the true nature of their offer in the fine print legitimizes their business model. It’s a scam, because people didn’t have informed consent, and I don’t care about the legalese.
      - throwawaycities 5y ago
        That’s pretty disingenuous, it’s not “hidden” in terms and conditions. And it’s not complicated legalese. If it’s a scam why do they have sections explaining “paid and free domains” why do they have a “price chart”. Free is in their name because they offer a free 12 month domain registration unlike other domain registrars which typically all offer discounts for the first year.
- npteljes 5y ago
  Merriam-Webster defines scam as a "fraudulent or deceptive act or operation". So yes.
- muzani 5y ago
  Look at this page: https://www.freenom.com/en/freeandpaiddomains.html https://www.freenom.com/en/freeandpaiddomains.html "Our mission is to bring people online and help countries develop their digital economy." "Pricing: FREE!" "Payments: No payment needed" This sounds a lot like a scam if they are later charging for those domain names.

This seems to be a pure scam if it's true. Not even a bait and switch.

jeroenhd 5y ago

I get the sentiment, but can something free really be a scam?

cturner 5y ago
When a service operates in bad faith, it is a scam.
rudian 5y ago
It’s still an agreement. Countries sign those all the time and nobody pays anything.
josephcsible 5y ago
Imagine if someone gave you a free bookshelf. You took it home and loaded it up with books. Then they came back and said that unless you gave them $1000, the bookshelf and all the books on it were theirs now. Would you not consider that a scam either?
- jeroenhd 5y ago
  I don't believe any physical metaphor counts here. No goods exchange hands here. In fact, in many cases, customers aren't even the technical owners of the domain, merely the licensees. DNS, especially dealing in domain names, is a service. In this case, I'd say they provide you with free newsletters if you sign up. If you send out enough newsletters to others, they stop giving you free stuff and you have to pay. I've found this in the terms and conditions: --- 11.2. Renewal As long as you have remained in compliance with each of the terms of this Agreement from the date you agreed to be bound by this Agreement, including without limitation the minimum use requirements set forth in Section 10.1, we may elect in our sole discretion to (i) allow you to upgrade to the Paid Service at the prevailing applicable rate, (ii) automatically renew this Agreement for a term, determined by Freenom, from such date (the "Renewal Period") and (iii) continue providing you with FREE DOMAIN subject to the terms and conditions of this Agreement (including a renewal of the registration of the domain name provided to you in connection with FREE DOMAIN). --- This seems pretty clear to me. At the end of a term (which can be a month or a year) they can decide to require upgrading to a paid subscription. If you choose not to renew for the paid plan, your domain will be resold like any domain reseller will do. The main problem I see here is the lack of a renewal notice. I've always received renewal warnings myself, but always with high spam scores (because free TLDs are often used for sending spam). This could be a problem with the customer's spam filter filtering out the right renewal notices. This doesn't look as much like a scam as it looks like looking a gift horse in the mouth in my opinion.
  - kenniskrag 5y ago
    You also own the domain only if you paid: > As a PAID domain name registrant, you receive the benefits of holding the legal license rights of the domain name.
- throwawaycities 5y ago
  It’s more akin to any other domain registrar that offers a discount for the 1st year of registration. Or a hosting company that gives you a “free” 1 year domain registration with paid hosting. That’s not a scam or fraud when the renewal period rolls around and the annual fee increases from the discount rate or you have to pay for the 1st time. The scam/fraud seems to be the review alleging the reviewer had a high traffic domain name that was just taken without notice so Freenom could sell it.
  - konschubert 5y ago
    Freenom doesn't sell the domain at the nominal fee, they put it up for auction. They also hide this fact from their victims until it's too late.
    - throwawaycities 5y ago
      I have registered at least a dozen for the standard fee (~$10/year).
- belorn 5y ago
  A bookshelf is a problematic comparison since we do have devices that people buy that has a built in bookshelf, one that can remove books at the company discretion. The digital books you loaded it up with at home is not owned by you, nor do you have any natural right to the book or the bookshelf. However, they won't lock it up and demand payment. They simply just lock it up at the discretion of the company. The digital bookshelf will record and analyze what you read which is a bit of switch-and-bait tactic.
bastawhiz 5y ago
Yes, because it's not a net-zero outcome. More harm has been done to you than if you hadn't used their service at all. If I give you a free car under the pretense that I'm a cool guy who gives away free cars, and you use that car to get a job delivering pizza, then I take back the car unless you give me money, that's a scam. You've been scammed. I've committed fraud to make money from you after I've put you in a vulnerable position.
- kadoban 5y ago
  Is that actually a scam? Sounds like you just got free use of car for a while, how are you worse off? In Freenom's case, you are giving the domain name value by using it and driving traffic to it. It didn't have value to begin with. The same thing isn't true in the car analogy.
  - bastawhiz 5y ago
    Yes, it's still a scam. The domain was not provided with the assumption that it would be taken away. Nobody starts an online business with the expectation that they're only borrowing the domain and will need to pay what essentially a ransom. If you replace the car in my analogy with a house, it's even clearer. It's hard to change where you live for a ton of reasons. Demanding unexpected payment is a scam, because I wasn't anticipating paying under the agreement, and I'm left with little choice in the matter (lest I become homeless). If I start a profitable business with a domain that's taken from me, I'm either forced to pay this ransom or start my business from scratch. > It didn't have value to begin with But your use of it created value, with the expectation that you would be able to keep that value. The deception that the value is not actually yours to keep makes it a scam. It's especially scammy, since they seemingly only do this to domains valuable enough to extract meaningful value from: they're selectively targeting valuable properties to extort.
    - kadoban 5y ago
      To be clear, I agree that Freenom's behavior is a scam. I've been on board with that the whole time. The car analogy seems questionable-at-best to me though, yeah it doesn't have the same elements. A car isn't hard to switch out, and you're not adding any value to it by using it. At worst you're right back where you started. The house analogy does seem better because it's hard to switch.
layoutIfNeeded 5y ago
If I install an internet-connected smart lock on your door for free, then after a few months, I remotely lock you out of your apartment and demand money for letting you in, am I really scamming you? It was free after all!
- throwawaycities 5y ago
  If you buy a Tesla and they give you a certain driving mode for Free for X months, then Tesla disables it after X months unless you pay for it that’s not a scam. When I register a domain with Godaddy and they charge me $12.99 for the first year and then $18.99 for subsequent years it’s not a scam. But when Freenom give you a free domain registration for up to 12 months and then makes you pay for it to renew after the free registration period or to transfer to 3rd parties it is a scam? Note, I do actually think the Tesla thing was a scam and fraud because they never disclosed to buyers certain software features were temporary as part of a trial period and would cost thousands of dollars after the trial period. Freenom on the other hand discloses the limited free registration period and the $10 annual registration fees, like Godaddy discloses the 1st year discount.
  - layoutIfNeeded 5y ago
    >Freenom on the other hand discloses the limited free registration period and the $10 annual registration fees When the company literally has FREE in its name, and their site is covered with ads boasting “FREE DOMAIN NAMES”, I don’t think that disclosing the true nature of their offer in the fine print legitimizes their business model. It’s a scam, because people didn’t have informed consent, and I don’t care about the legalese.
    - throwawaycities 5y ago
      That’s pretty disingenuous, it’s not “hidden” in terms and conditions. And it’s not complicated legalese. If it’s a scam why do they have sections explaining “paid and free domains” why do they have a “price chart”. Free is in their name because they offer a free 12 month domain registration unlike other domain registrars which typically all offer discounts for the first year.
npteljes 5y ago
Merriam-Webster defines scam as a "fraudulent or deceptive act or operation". So yes.
muzani 5y ago
Look at this page: https://www.freenom.com/en/freeandpaiddomains.html https://www.freenom.com/en/freeandpaiddomains.html "Our mission is to bring people online and help countries develop their digital economy." "Pricing: FREE!" "Payments: No payment needed" This sounds a lot like a scam if they are later charging for those domain names.