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If you assume the human-centric definition of the word "pain", perhaps. But I don't think that paints a complete picture - organisms experience and react to neg

If you assume the human-centric definition of the word "pain", perhaps. But I don't think that paints a complete picture - organisms experience and react to negative stimuli in so many different ways. IMO, what we're seeing here could absolutely be considered "pain" in the plant kingdom, without altering or stretching the definition of the word even in the slightest.

staticman2 5y ago
Why would you use a human term like pain for the plant? Here's a biologist saying not all humans experience pain, if it's not even a universal human experience I don't know why you'd apply it to plants instead of a more technical term: "Interviewer: Right, and isn't sensing damage, even without a neural system, essentially pain? Daniel Chamovitz: The idea that damage has to be pain is mistaken. We feel pain because we have specific types of receptors called nociceptors which are programmed to respond to pain, not to touch. People can have genetic malfunctions where they feel pressure but never feel pain because they don't have pain receptors." https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vice.com/amp/en/article/xd74nd/we-asked-a-botanist-how-sure-science-is-that-plants-cant-feel-pain-302 https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vice.com/amp/en/article/xd7..." A different article on the subject on plant pain has a biologist suggesting not to use human terms or animal terms: ""Plants can detect light, but I don’t think you can say plants can ‘see.’” The same goes for hearing, tasting, feeling, smelling. The terms we use to describe our own interface with the world don’t seem transferable to plants. They describe the contours of a human-centric reality, made possible by our animal anatomy."" https://www.discovermagazine.com/planet-earth/can-plants-feel-pain https://www.discovermagazine.com/planet-earth/can-plants-fee...
- calibas 5y ago
  "We feel pain because we have specific types of receptors called nociceptors which are programmed to respond to pain, not to touch." I assume he meant we feel pain as a response to damage. Saying we feel pain because of a response to pain makes no sense.
ineedasername 5y ago
without altering or stretching the definition of the word even in the slightest. The word "pain" has the concept of the mental experience of suffering pretty much baked in to it. Applying it to plants seems to very much stretch the definition when there is literally no biological structure in plants that corresponds to the neural activity organisms with a CNS when experiencing pain. An electrical pulse isn't really sufficient: plants send electric signals under a variety of circumstances. Pain isn't merely a response to negative stimuli. That does stretch the definition.
- philipswood 5y ago
  Neurons specialize communication functions that normal cells also have, so plants could conceivably experience pain. (Would still need to be shown, but is conceivable) I'm not sure where this would leave vegans.

staticman2 5y ago

Why would you use a human term like pain for the plant? Here's a biologist saying not all humans experience pain, if it's not even a universal human experience I don't know why you'd apply it to plants instead of a more technical term: "Interviewer: Right, and isn't sensing damage, even without a neural system, essentially pain? Daniel Chamovitz: The idea that damage has to be pain is mistaken. We feel pain because we have specific types of receptors called nociceptors which are programmed to respond to pain, not to touch. People can have genetic malfunctions where they feel pressure but never feel pain because they don't have pain receptors." https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vice.com/amp/en/article/xd74nd/we-asked-a-botanist-how-sure-science-is-that-plants-cant-feel-pain-302 https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vice.com/amp/en/article/xd7..." A different article on the subject on plant pain has a biologist suggesting not to use human terms or animal terms: ""Plants can detect light, but I don’t think you can say plants can ‘see.’” The same goes for hearing, tasting, feeling, smelling. The terms we use to describe our own interface with the world don’t seem transferable to plants. They describe the contours of a human-centric reality, made possible by our animal anatomy."" https://www.discovermagazine.com/planet-earth/can-plants-feel-pain https://www.discovermagazine.com/planet-earth/can-plants-fee...

calibas 5y ago
"We feel pain because we have specific types of receptors called nociceptors which are programmed to respond to pain, not to touch." I assume he meant we feel pain as a response to damage. Saying we feel pain because of a response to pain makes no sense.

ineedasername 5y ago

without altering or stretching the definition of the word even in the slightest. The word "pain" has the concept of the mental experience of suffering pretty much baked in to it. Applying it to plants seems to very much stretch the definition when there is literally no biological structure in plants that corresponds to the neural activity organisms with a CNS when experiencing pain. An electrical pulse isn't really sufficient: plants send electric signals under a variety of circumstances. Pain isn't merely a response to negative stimuli. That does stretch the definition.

philipswood 5y ago
Neurons specialize communication functions that normal cells also have, so plants could conceivably experience pain. (Would still need to be shown, but is conceivable) I'm not sure where this would leave vegans.