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With that 60k number on the table Im wondering where people think a universal basic income might fit into this discussion?

seanmcdirmid 5y ago
UBI would work well for some homeless and would be a disaster for others (those with severe substance abuse issues).
- maqp 5y ago
  What's the actual percentage of homeless people with severe substance abuse problem (i.e. one where its ~daily and they wouldn't agree to treatment)? This comment makes it sound like it applies to something like 50% of SF homeless and that can't be right.
  - seanmcdirmid 5y ago
    For the long term chronic homeless, pretty high (that and/or mental illness). For the less chronic short term homeless, not high at all (or they wouldn’t be short term).
  - HideousKojima 5y ago
    It actually is about 50%: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.samhsa.gov/sites/default/files/programs_campaigns/homelessness_programs_resources/hrc-factsheet-current-statistics-prevalence-characteristics-homelessness.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjRh-2D2v7xAhWBvZ4KHbpSArIQFjABegQIAxAG&usg=AOvVaw2E8bKDNX8sdr2TqHLXmSJT https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https:/...
    - maqp 5y ago
      I'm sorry, where on that 23 page document does it say 50%? On Page 2 it says "On a given night in January 2010" -- "26.2% of all sheltered persons who were homeless had a severe mental illness" and "34.7% of all sheltered adults who were homeless had chronic substance use issues" of course that was 10 years ago, so I wouldn't be surprised if it has increased but still, I'd prefer more accurate numbers. Did I look at wrong page?
      - HideousKojima 5y ago
        Page 4
        maqp 5y ago
        Ah, very good, thanks! So yeah, half of the chronically homeless. That's extremely bad news. But let's remember that doing drugs to forget your life has been a mess for a long time is not a lifestyle choice decision. There's no study on this so we can't be sure how many will say yes, but given a "Finnish opportunity" of free housing if you agree on medical treatment/rehabilitation for the drug problem, free debt debt counseling, and a state-supported employment, I suspect not many would say no to what's essentially a fresh start.
        seanmcdirmid 5y ago
        50% actually seems way too low to me, and I wish I had some time and resources to look at their methodology. The other number that would seriously affect solutions is whether homeless in general travel to cities that better support being homeless or not. That is, how much of the problem is homegrown and how much is just because Seattle, LA, SF have good resources and weather? Because if mobility is an significant option, the better any one city does at solving their homeless problems, the worse their problem will become. All the studies I’ve seen so far have been really flawed (eg most Seattle homeless living in pioneer square before they became homeless).
        nate_meurer 5y ago
        > doing drugs to forget your life has been a mess for a long time is not a lifestyle choice decision. That's a bold statement. Choice and compulsion occupy the same place in hell. Youtube is actually a fantastic resource for the average Joe (like me) who wants to hear how it is straight from the source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6ZFzEW7_Q4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6ZFzEW7_Q4

seanmcdirmid 5y ago

UBI would work well for some homeless and would be a disaster for others (those with severe substance abuse issues).

maqp 5y ago
What's the actual percentage of homeless people with severe substance abuse problem (i.e. one where its ~daily and they wouldn't agree to treatment)? This comment makes it sound like it applies to something like 50% of SF homeless and that can't be right.
- seanmcdirmid 5y ago
  For the long term chronic homeless, pretty high (that and/or mental illness). For the less chronic short term homeless, not high at all (or they wouldn’t be short term).
- HideousKojima 5y ago
  It actually is about 50%: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.samhsa.gov/sites/default/files/programs_campaigns/homelessness_programs_resources/hrc-factsheet-current-statistics-prevalence-characteristics-homelessness.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjRh-2D2v7xAhWBvZ4KHbpSArIQFjABegQIAxAG&usg=AOvVaw2E8bKDNX8sdr2TqHLXmSJT https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https:/...
  - maqp 5y ago
    I'm sorry, where on that 23 page document does it say 50%? On Page 2 it says "On a given night in January 2010" -- "26.2% of all sheltered persons who were homeless had a severe mental illness" and "34.7% of all sheltered adults who were homeless had chronic substance use issues" of course that was 10 years ago, so I wouldn't be surprised if it has increased but still, I'd prefer more accurate numbers. Did I look at wrong page?
    - HideousKojima 5y ago
      Page 4
      - maqp 5y ago
        Ah, very good, thanks! So yeah, half of the chronically homeless. That's extremely bad news. But let's remember that doing drugs to forget your life has been a mess for a long time is not a lifestyle choice decision. There's no study on this so we can't be sure how many will say yes, but given a "Finnish opportunity" of free housing if you agree on medical treatment/rehabilitation for the drug problem, free debt debt counseling, and a state-supported employment, I suspect not many would say no to what's essentially a fresh start.
        seanmcdirmid 5y ago
        50% actually seems way too low to me, and I wish I had some time and resources to look at their methodology. The other number that would seriously affect solutions is whether homeless in general travel to cities that better support being homeless or not. That is, how much of the problem is homegrown and how much is just because Seattle, LA, SF have good resources and weather? Because if mobility is an significant option, the better any one city does at solving their homeless problems, the worse their problem will become. All the studies I’ve seen so far have been really flawed (eg most Seattle homeless living in pioneer square before they became homeless).
        nate_meurer 5y ago
        > doing drugs to forget your life has been a mess for a long time is not a lifestyle choice decision. That's a bold statement. Choice and compulsion occupy the same place in hell. Youtube is actually a fantastic resource for the average Joe (like me) who wants to hear how it is straight from the source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6ZFzEW7_Q4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6ZFzEW7_Q4