58 ms·

My Fanless OpenBSD Desktop

273 points by rodrigo975 5y ago

pdenton 5y ago
The main reason I tend to stick with GNU+Linux is because of its excellent support for hardware accelerated opengl. The article doesn't tell how the performance is under openbsd. I can play 3d games and have multiple live streams of the olympics running simultaneously, without a hitch. On a router, openbsd is perfect. It has a great firewall and everything is thoroughly documented. Configuration is simple enough and it just works really well. Good read though.
- notaplumber 5y ago
  Likely because the author doesn't care about that and are productivity focused. Besides, OpenBSD uses the same drivers as Linux, ported to the OpenBSD kernel. https://github.com/openbsd/src/commit/ad8b1aafbcc34f7eb86e4ebfd874be286017954b https://github.com/openbsd/src/commit/ad8b1aafbcc34f7eb86e4e...
- alekq 5y ago
  Author is OpenBSD developer.
- anthk 5y ago
  OpenBSD uses MESA. I finished Silent Hill:Shattered Memories just fine under a Celeron+Intel Mobile 4 Series laptop. -currrent uses MESA 21.1.5.
speedgoose 5y ago
The case looks great! I personally enjoy the current trend of putting RGB leds on everything, including internal components. It will probably not age well, but I think it's fun and some funky lighting can improve a lot the appearance of a dull looking computer. But with such a beautiful case, there is no need for RGB lights. 48Hz seems a bit too low. I think high refresh rates improve the user experience even outside gaming. Scrolling code at 144Hz or more feels much nicer than 60Hz, it's easy to notice when you switch between computers. But that may generate a bit too much heat for someone who doesn't want any noise.
- diarrhea 5y ago
  Agree on the high refresh rate point. I used to have a 1080p 144 Hz monitor and it transformed online gaming, but was also noticeable on the desktop. However, I then went 32" 4k and can never go back. 4k is simply amazing, and today you still have to choose: either high Hz or high resolution. You can't (reasonably) have both, and I choose 4k! Looking forward to the day 4k 144Hz becomes reasonable.
  - LeSaucy 5y ago
    If the larger size of 48” isn’t a deal breaker, the LG CX/C1 make amazing desktop displays- 4K120 + OLED response times.
  - washadjeffmad 5y ago
    Ehh maybe true like four years ago. I've had a 4K 120Hz 10bit 4:4:4 panel since 2014 for under $1K, and TVs that do 4K 120Hz are cheap today (like 55" for $350). My display also does 1080_240 and 720_540, which is just silly.
    - noisem4ker 5y ago
      Such high values found on TVs are typically a product of motion interpolation and backlight strobing. They may not be considered "true" refresh rates and be just taken at face value.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- jbjbjbjb 5y ago
  The 48hz would ruin the whole build for me. Is that likely to be an Openbsd issue?
salamandersauce 5y ago
I would be concerned about ditching the X570 chipset fan (with no cooling replacement?). They didn't add the fan for fun. B550 boards are available fanless and have most of the same features.
- toast0 5y ago
  From reading lots of reviews and what not, the chipset fan on the X570 is really only needed when doing a lot of PCI-e 4.0 stuff; the CPU in question doesn't support 4.0, so it really shouldn't be an issue to disable the fan. Although buying a less capable board is probably a better answer; personally, I built my SFF system on an A520 board, the only down side is very little overclocking/underclocking/voltage tuning support. There is some support for tuning, but you can't use the best utilities, and so I'm just running at stock which works well for me, but a small undervolt might give similar performance with a little less heat.
fallenspec 5y ago
> The stupid RGB LEDs can be disabled in the BIOS/firmware menu by setting “AURA” to “Stealth Mode”, and I unplugged the two 1” fans on the I/O board to keep everything silent. I also had to set the “CPU Fan Speed” in the “Monitor” section to “Ignore”, or else it would indicate a fan error at every boot since I had none plugged in. I can't tell looking at the motherboard he linked whether it has a fan there and which 1 inch fan he is talking about. However I have a ATX board that is very similar and the little fan is there to cool the northbridge and it *should* be running. Northbridge's on these chipsets get very hot from what I understand.
- formerly_proven 5y ago
  An X570 board is indeed not a good choice for a build like this, because the I/O options offered by the chipset are not actually used. This particular one seems to have one fan for the VRMs, which is likely not needed in his use, while the NB will actually need that fan (with the stock cooler, if you replace the usually not very good OEM designs you can cool X570 passively). A B450 or B550 board would have been a better idea and much cheaper to boot. It would also significantly reduce power usage, as just the X570 chipset alone needs something like 8-9 W (at idle) more than the B450 chipset.
  - sliken 5y ago
    Indeed, I bought a b550 board specifically because it doesn't require a chipset fan that's tiny, inefficient, and much better at making noise/vibration than it is at moving air. Then tend to be rather unreliable as well. There is a newer x570s motherboards out now, if you need the highest end boards and don't want the extra fan.
  - flyinghamster 5y ago
    Thanks for pointing that out - I've been nosing around as I consider what I want to build next, and I hadn't realized the X570s tend to need chipset fans. That's a deal-killer for me. Either it's going to be noisy as all get-out, or it's going to be some cheap part that fails prematurely, assuming it isn't both. I definitely prefer big and slow for fans.
barney54 5y ago
I don’t understand this part of the write up, “ I’ve always chosen smaller (<= 14”) laptop screens since I find too much horizontal space disorienting.” I very much understand getting distracted with too much screen space, but I wonder what he means about getting disoriented? I like the minimalist setup, but for me this setup would be an ergonomic disaster with the monitor that low.
- f6v 5y ago
  I find 13 inch laptop screen to be the best. I can’t understand all the people plugging 2 huge monitors to their laptop.
  - jeromenerf 5y ago
    I believe the limited view and interactivity offered by our small 2D screens at have a profound impact on our industry deliverables. I like a small notebook but I also use a large translucent sheet for plans and sketches or a giant blackboard for collaboration.
  - egeozcan 5y ago
    I have a wide screen. On one side, the app I'm working on reloads itself as I'm working on it, middle is the code, right is docs. On a second virtual desktop I have chat, email and todos. Works perfect for me.
  - LeSaucy 5y ago
    2 monitors attached to my laptop let’s me keep main teams window, active call window, obsidian/notes, and a full display for whatever I am working on/discussing/sharing all open simultaneously. Constantly alt-tabbing between a call window and notes is a chore.
  - RedShift1 5y ago
    Personally I prefer 15.6" 1920x1080 for laptops. A lot of real estate and can keep it at 100% scaling.
- adrian_b 5y ago
Havoc 5y ago
I love the casualness of this: >Since the LG UltraFine exposes a USB HID device to control its brightness, I wrote a driver to attach to it and expose the brightness adjustment through wsconsctl display.brightness. Worth noting that many of the NUC style minipcs have aftermarket fanless solutions available - google Akasa case for example. Apparently the ryzens take a sizable hit from single stick of mem but haven't tested it myself.
- ngcc_hk 5y ago
  At least I guess writing a control code for my dell 24 inches under mac is much difficult cf to *nix.
- floatboth 5y ago
  Single channel of RAM (you can put two sticks into one channel and leave the second one unused, which is really stupid but has been found on prebuilt desktops LOL) is always bad for performance, especially for onboard GPU.
0xcoffee 5y ago
This review didn't really convince me about the keyboard. 1. Boot into windows to configure it 2. Space bar sometimes sticks 3. Wrist pain because the key height 4. Led lights don't support dimming very well The keyboard costs $169.99! Why so much focus on the keyboard size (at a hefty premium), the desk looks huge and a regular keyboard is much cheaper, and only a couple cm wider.
- eertami 5y ago
  In his defence, the "regular"/cheap rubber dome keyboards you mention are unusable if you're used to mechanical switches. $170 is around average for something respectable. I've never understood penny pinching something like a keyboard, it's your interface to the computer and you use it every single working day. A 170$ mech keyboard from a good manufacturer will easily last more than 10 years. That said, I personally don't trust the reliability of Glorious.
  - approxim8ion 5y ago
    > In his defence, the "regular"/cheap rubber dome keyboards you mention are unusable if you're used to mechanical switches. My solution to this has been "not getting used to mechanical switches." Even over 10 years, the cost really doesn't add up, and I have used fairly acceptable membrane/rubber dome keyboards that get the job done fine.
- salamandersauce 5y ago
  You can get 75% keyboards for much cheaper. Like you can easily get a mechanical one off Amazon for $50. With the Glorious GMMK Pro you are paying for the metal backplane, the ability to hotswap switches and in theory it should support QMK? Maybe? Depending on which chip it got. QMK would allow it to be configured outside Windows just with more effort.
- maxmalkav 5y ago
  I do like custom mechanical keyboards and I am quite "neutral" about GMMK boards. 1. I read on the product's page they are compatible with QMK firmware, which makes possible to configure the keyboard from Linux (and I guess from OpenBSD). Probably the convenient configuration app it's Windows-only, but it seems we are not limited to it 2. That's weird and should not happen. It may be a defect with the keyboard / stabilizers or it may be a problem with the spacebar key (it's bent, twisted or it has been manufactured with the wrong geometry), but definitely it should be addressed 3. My experience is that a proper chair with arm rests and a table at the right height make a wrist rest unnecessary (and it can be counterproductive from a ergonomics perspective) 4. Nothing to comment about the dimming feature While nowadays you can find all kinds of prices and qualities regarding mechanical keyboards, $169.99 is really "cheap" for an entry level custom keyboard with these features. My impression is that the keyboard hobby is one of those things you don't fully get until you are into it, it's a dangerous rabbit hole :-)
maxmalkav 5y ago
I totally understand the appeal of a totally silent desktop, been there :-) Making it fanless sounds like the obvious way but it gets quite expensive very soon (I just checked and just the DB4 seems to cost >200€ here in Europe). I secretly keep on wishing to build a true fanless system, but I have personally opted for something in between. A good quality PSU (fanless or with a fan only active after certain threshold), SSD drives (mechanical ones are terrible offenders about noise), a bulky CPU heatsink and good quality fans spinning at no more than 800 RPM can give you a really silent desktop for a reasonable price. If you need to add a discrete GPU to the equation you can get a not too power hungry one with decent fan regulation (they can work fanless under low workloads). While not fanless and not a truly 0dB system, any potential noise is covered by any background noise, even in quiet places, your own keyboard typing or the audio from your gaming session if you are stressing your GPU.
- dtgriscom 5y ago
  This. I have a Ryzen 7 3700X-based machine [1] with the factory CPU cooler, an SSD, and a quiet system fan. When idle, it's inaudible even with the exhaust fan facing you. When I'm compiling, the fan speeds up but you can only hear a quiet ticking. Any quieter would have had no value for me. [1] https://pcpartpicker.com/user/dtgriscom/saved/#view=P84p23 https://pcpartpicker.com/user/dtgriscom/saved/#view=P84p23
- PragmaticPulp 5y ago
  > a bulky CPU heatsink and good quality fans spinning at no more than 800 RPM can give you a really silent desktop for a reasonable price I’ve followed fanless PC cases for years, but I always arrive at the same conclusion: Modern fans, PSUs, and PC cases are so good that it’s not hard to build an effectively silent PC that uses fans for cooling. My GPU and PSU don’t even spin up their fans at all unless I’m playing a video game, at which point I’m wearing headphones anyway. A large CPU heatsink allows for slow spinning fans that are so quiet I can’t tell if they’re spinning at all without looking at them. The case itself is lined with acoustic damping material to attenuate noise even further. The loudest part of my recent builds hasn’t been the fans. It’s the noise made by the electromagnetic coils in the PSU. I had to swap power supplies to find an even quieter one, even though the fan wasn’t spinning. I could see how a truly fanless PC could have used (recording studio or maybe a dusty environment where airflow isn’t an option) but for most of us it’s not hard to build an effectively silent case with good fan and component selection.
joseflavio 5y ago
I have 3 fanless desktops and you can build them quite cheaply if 65w cpus are enough for you. You can get a fanless seasonic power supply for 90 usd and use cpu cooler Artic Alpine 12 for 25 USD - the remaining components including the case can be quite standard
- maxmalkav 5y ago
  The "problem" of using a regular case for totally fanless setup is these cases are designed with a fan-generated air flow in mind. The cases designed for passive operation, like the DB4 try to generate some airflow by convection to compensate. A setup like the one you describe can be quite OK (specially with modern hardware), but it may run kind of warm-ish due the lack of proper airflow (and heat kind of shortens life of electronic components in the long run). Worst case scenario, you can always install very low RPM fans to this setup.
gswdh 5y ago
I can’t imagine this guys posture with the monitor that low and small. I’m totally with this guys on the LEDs.
srean 5y ago
This reminded me of experiments with a case-less-fan-full setup. Not a cpu fan but a full-fledged table fan. As a cash-strapped recently exed-student of that time I had assembled a desktop based on AMD K6 CPU one summer. They were significantly cheaper than the Intel peers of that time. I had two favorite tests to check a running system (i) compile the kernel and (ii) run GNU Chess against each other. To my sinking disappointed both crashed repeatedly on this assembly, I had sunk quite a bit of my savings into this. Those days you had to take a lot of care choosing your hardware if you wanted to run Linux. Linux was largely an unknown entity in India at that time. We used to get Linux distributions (usually Redhat, Debian or Mandrake) on CDs that came with a magazine called PCQuest. Many thanks to Atul Chitnis (RIP) for popularizing an alternative path to a computer experience. Anything other than Windows was unimaginable in India at that time. Guessing it could be an overheating problem, I removed the case and directed a table fan at it - Problem solved! I had it run kernel compilation on a loop all through the day, no failures. Later I reapplied the thermal paste on the cpu/heatsink fixture (it had come as an assembly when I had purchased it). After that I could compile the kernel -- case closed. Came away with the realization that AMD chips though cheaper, they tend to run hotter. This turned out to be good learning too. Running 2 Athlon based desktops with their fans directed at me gave me enough heating in the winter as a grad student. Fun days.
LAC-Tech 5y ago
Is there any desktop machine I could buy off the shelf, in 2021, and OpenBSD would just work on it?
- ussrlongbow 5y ago
  As desktop or server?
  - jalfresi 5y ago
    I'd be interested in an OpenBSD desktop
CorralPeltzer 5y ago
If you're into fully fanless PCs and don't mind paying a premium, Monster Labo are the only ones to my knowledge selling cases capable of dissipating the 300W+ that a full gaming desktop will generate: https://www.monsterlabo.com/shop https://www.monsterlabo.com/shop
- christophilus 5y ago
  Those look really attractive, too. I was expecting the typical, garish gaming rig.
ginko 5y ago
I recently went fanless by getting a Ryzen 7 mini pc (ASUS PN-50) and installing the mainboard in a fanless aftermarket case[0]. Works great. The CPU idles around 45C which is actually quite a bit cooler than with the original air cooled ASUS case. [0] https://www.akasa.com.tw/update.php?tpl=product/product.detail.tpl&no=181&type=Fanless%20Chassis&type_sub=Fanless%20NUC&model=A-NUC62-M1B https://www.akasa.com.tw/update.php?tpl=product/product.deta...
layoutIfNeeded 5y ago
Ah, the Streacom DB4... what a piece of art! For a while I was pondering whether to invest in a completely silent home server using the DB4, but it would have meant that I would need to go all-in with solid-state storage, which would get a bit pricey for a 4 Tb RAID10 array :(
pedrocr 5y ago
Great writeup. For someone so meticulous it's surprising that Gb/Tb is used where GB/TB is meant. Reading the X1 Nano review seems like that is consistent.
seaghost 5y ago
This looks to me very masochistic, so much pain to setup simple stuff like screen resolution, refresh rate, issues installing operating system.
- opan 5y ago
  It didn't seem like any of that was the fault of OpenBSD to me. The monitor may have just been a bad choice. Especially when he had to get that additional expansion card to use it, and still had issues. I hope he finds a way to get back to 60hz someday.
flyinghamster 5y ago
> but I was disappointed at how every non-server motherboard seems to be targeted towards gamers with all kinds of stupid flashing LEDs and aggressive branding. Yup, it's all gamer chic now. We NEED all those flashy LEDs inside that 4U rackmount case! :) Really, I don't care one way or the other, though for a server I'd want something with a BMC. More important to me is that the motherboard itself doesn't have any fans. If there's a little bitty fan on the chipset, don't just walk away, run.
- brnt 5y ago
  Gamer chic or gamer kitch...
- moonbug 5y ago
  you'll be wanting a SpectraLogic Black Pearl.
- drdebug 5y ago
  Motherboards have fan now?
beebeepka 5y ago
I am not taking PC build advice from a person that got their first AMD processor in 2021. Small 60 Hz monitor, crappy wireless mouse, and a Samsung 980 Pro SSD. But hey, the person was trying to build a non gaming machine. Disappointing article That said, I totally get what the author was going for. It's that I completely disagree with most choices Edit: downvote all you want, there's nothing about this build that merits fluff
- flatiron 5y ago
  The part about them scratching their head about csm had me scratching my head too. OpenBSD is wonderful. But at the same time not really tailored to this setup.
  - oblak 5y ago
    Doesn't make much sense to me. I thought the whole point of BSD is to run old hardware [for various reasons]
    - flatiron 5y ago
      As far as BSD “reasons” net bsd might be the “run on anything” reason. OpenBSD is more “code quality and security”. For example hyperthrrading is disabled by default. They priority security over speed.
- floatboth 5y ago
  For work, I'd definitely prefer resolution over refresh rate, and 4K120 is still too expensive sadly. Agree on the mouse, non-gaming mice are bad. What's wrong with the 980 Pro?
  - beebeepka 5y ago
    4k120 is not only expensive, it's plagued by all sorts of issues, not to mention fans. As for 980pro. It's just an Eco with the Pro branding. Check out 5he reviews. It's a joke
gigatexal 5y ago
Everything about this setup is amazing to me. The desk, the office, the high-dpi screen, the fanless nature: awesome. I wonder though is there any risk of coil whine?
- floatboth 5y ago
  There always is, though with desktops you can hand-pick the PSU and mainboard (and graphics card if using a dedicated one) to not have the whiny kind of inductors. Or you can add ambient noise, or listen to music :)
  - gigatexal 5y ago
    is there any research that says something like a platinum or gold rated PSU will always or most of the time not have any coil whine? same for high-end or quality capped motherboards? or is it a fundamental thing in all electronics and we just don't hear it over the fans and other ambient noise?
dexterhaslem 5y ago
48 Hz ouch, i weep for the eyes.
josephd79 5y ago
What keyboard is that? Ps love the susuwatari keys
- forbiddenlake 5y ago
  Excerpt from the article: I’m not big into mechanical keyboards (aside from the one on my Dolch PAC 64) but after seeing LGR’s video about the Glorious GMMK Pro 75% keyboard, I decided to go with that one for my desktop.
OrvalWintermute 5y ago
I found this a real pleasure to read, as the author explained the why behind almost every decision, and was quite descriptive. Def hope to read more from Joshua.
mastax 5y ago
There are motherboards like the AsRock X570 Phantom Gaming-ITX/TB3 that support DP-out through the onboard usb-c. Either using a DP-in port with a discrete GPU, or through an integrated GPU. Always check the manual to ensure it works like you expect. The new Ryzen 5700G is getting retail availability soon, though its hard to say to wait for it - especially with availability as it is. I would certainly recommend a second stick of ram to run in dual channel mode which doubles the memory bandwidth. This is especially important for the onboard GPU but other CPU workloads as well.
- toast0 5y ago
  The 5700G is undoubtably better than the 4750G (unless you care about the pro features, I guess), but I don't think it's that big of a difference. CPU is one generation better, and GPU is about the same. I don't know what the grey market premium is on the 4750G these days though. I got my two 4650G processors last November, and it was only about $20 over suspected MSRP to get them on Aliexpress, but 4750G at that point had fewer vendors and a lot bigger premium. At that time, US based marketplaces bumped the price by another $50+, so I took my chances with Aliexpress (I had to order my chosen SFF heatsinks there anyway, so I had a test run with a lower cost item) and everything worked out fine.
bxparks 5y ago
This article made a passing reference to the lack of S3 Sleep on some laptops, so I did some googling to learn that there is something called "Modern Standby". I'm not sure I like the idea of my laptop randomly connecting to the internet and doing background work, after I explicitly told it to sleep.
- minedwiz 5y ago
  My work issued laptop is a Lenovo with modern sleep. Basically just means the thing never really sleeps, fans keep going. It used to be you could trick windows (sadly a work necessity) into using real S3 sleep via UEFI setting, but they broke it in 20-04.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
sys_64738 5y ago
Silent and low power are my important parameters. I've had good experience will Dell Optiplex for these two requirements.
noisem4ker 5y ago
That monitor position, simulating the placement on a laptop, goes against any basic ergonomy guidelines.
ghostly_s 5y ago
Don't really understand the convoluted USB-C setup. If you're using onboard graphics anyway, can't you get a mobo with onboard USB-C that will route that DP signal without the workaround?
eunice 5y ago
surprised to see so many people with 'inaudible' ryzen setups, my 3600 runs loud and hot with a noctua nhu9s
layer8 5y ago
For a passively cooled Ryzen APU system, I can recommend the Cirrus7 Incus: https://www.cirrus7.com/en/cirrus7-incus/ https://www.cirrus7.com/en/cirrus7-incus/
lxe 5y ago
Nice soldering iron!
sigzero 5y ago
The DB4 (I like the black) is a beautiful case.
indigodaddy 5y ago
Very nice article. I was also impressed by his stunningly beautiful site/blog design. A joy to read and look at on mobile.
peanut_worm 5y ago
Looks beautiful, I love the keyboards. I find something about the sound of a fan to be comforting. Reminds me of home. Although the fan on my work Macbook Air sounds like an air compressor and I am not a ‘fan’ of it at all :)
joeman1000 5y ago
Anyone else get secondhand neck strain just looking at the monitor position? Cool setup regardless! Nice website too. Thanks.
tbrock 5y ago
Why not just get an M1 macbook air? Its likely more performant, also has no fan, runs bsd, whats not to like? You could probably one day replace MacOS with openbsd if you wanted.
- adamrt 5y ago
  He stated multiple times in the article that he runs OpenBSD, which doesn't fully support the M1.

273 points by rodrigo975 5y ago

The main reason I tend to stick with GNU+Linux is because of its excellent support for hardware accelerated opengl. The article doesn't tell how the performance is under openbsd. I can play 3d games and have multiple live streams of the olympics running simultaneously, without a hitch. On a router, openbsd is perfect. It has a great firewall and everything is thoroughly documented. Configuration is simple enough and it just works really well. Good read though.

notaplumber 5y ago
Likely because the author doesn't care about that and are productivity focused. Besides, OpenBSD uses the same drivers as Linux, ported to the OpenBSD kernel. https://github.com/openbsd/src/commit/ad8b1aafbcc34f7eb86e4ebfd874be286017954b https://github.com/openbsd/src/commit/ad8b1aafbcc34f7eb86e4e...
alekq 5y ago
Author is OpenBSD developer.
anthk 5y ago
OpenBSD uses MESA. I finished Silent Hill:Shattered Memories just fine under a Celeron+Intel Mobile 4 Series laptop. -currrent uses MESA 21.1.5.

speedgoose 5y ago

The case looks great! I personally enjoy the current trend of putting RGB leds on everything, including internal components. It will probably not age well, but I think it's fun and some funky lighting can improve a lot the appearance of a dull looking computer. But with such a beautiful case, there is no need for RGB lights. 48Hz seems a bit too low. I think high refresh rates improve the user experience even outside gaming. Scrolling code at 144Hz or more feels much nicer than 60Hz, it's easy to notice when you switch between computers. But that may generate a bit too much heat for someone who doesn't want any noise.

diarrhea 5y ago
Agree on the high refresh rate point. I used to have a 1080p 144 Hz monitor and it transformed online gaming, but was also noticeable on the desktop. However, I then went 32" 4k and can never go back. 4k is simply amazing, and today you still have to choose: either high Hz or high resolution. You can't (reasonably) have both, and I choose 4k! Looking forward to the day 4k 144Hz becomes reasonable.
- LeSaucy 5y ago
  If the larger size of 48” isn’t a deal breaker, the LG CX/C1 make amazing desktop displays- 4K120 + OLED response times.
- washadjeffmad 5y ago
  Ehh maybe true like four years ago. I've had a 4K 120Hz 10bit 4:4:4 panel since 2014 for under $1K, and TVs that do 4K 120Hz are cheap today (like 55" for $350). My display also does 1080_240 and 720_540, which is just silly.
  - noisem4ker 5y ago
    Such high values found on TVs are typically a product of motion interpolation and backlight strobing. They may not be considered "true" refresh rates and be just taken at face value.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
jbjbjbjb 5y ago
The 48hz would ruin the whole build for me. Is that likely to be an Openbsd issue?

salamandersauce 5y ago

I would be concerned about ditching the X570 chipset fan (with no cooling replacement?). They didn't add the fan for fun. B550 boards are available fanless and have most of the same features.

toast0 5y ago
From reading lots of reviews and what not, the chipset fan on the X570 is really only needed when doing a lot of PCI-e 4.0 stuff; the CPU in question doesn't support 4.0, so it really shouldn't be an issue to disable the fan. Although buying a less capable board is probably a better answer; personally, I built my SFF system on an A520 board, the only down side is very little overclocking/underclocking/voltage tuning support. There is some support for tuning, but you can't use the best utilities, and so I'm just running at stock which works well for me, but a small undervolt might give similar performance with a little less heat.

fallenspec 5y ago

> The stupid RGB LEDs can be disabled in the BIOS/firmware menu by setting “AURA” to “Stealth Mode”, and I unplugged the two 1” fans on the I/O board to keep everything silent. I also had to set the “CPU Fan Speed” in the “Monitor” section to “Ignore”, or else it would indicate a fan error at every boot since I had none plugged in. I can't tell looking at the motherboard he linked whether it has a fan there and which 1 inch fan he is talking about. However I have a ATX board that is very similar and the little fan is there to cool the northbridge and it *should* be running. Northbridge's on these chipsets get very hot from what I understand.

formerly_proven 5y ago
An X570 board is indeed not a good choice for a build like this, because the I/O options offered by the chipset are not actually used. This particular one seems to have one fan for the VRMs, which is likely not needed in his use, while the NB will actually need that fan (with the stock cooler, if you replace the usually not very good OEM designs you can cool X570 passively). A B450 or B550 board would have been a better idea and much cheaper to boot. It would also significantly reduce power usage, as just the X570 chipset alone needs something like 8-9 W (at idle) more than the B450 chipset.
- sliken 5y ago
  Indeed, I bought a b550 board specifically because it doesn't require a chipset fan that's tiny, inefficient, and much better at making noise/vibration than it is at moving air. Then tend to be rather unreliable as well. There is a newer x570s motherboards out now, if you need the highest end boards and don't want the extra fan.
- flyinghamster 5y ago
  Thanks for pointing that out - I've been nosing around as I consider what I want to build next, and I hadn't realized the X570s tend to need chipset fans. That's a deal-killer for me. Either it's going to be noisy as all get-out, or it's going to be some cheap part that fails prematurely, assuming it isn't both. I definitely prefer big and slow for fans.

barney54 5y ago

I don’t understand this part of the write up, “ I’ve always chosen smaller (<= 14”) laptop screens since I find too much horizontal space disorienting.” I very much understand getting distracted with too much screen space, but I wonder what he means about getting disoriented? I like the minimalist setup, but for me this setup would be an ergonomic disaster with the monitor that low.

f6v 5y ago
I find 13 inch laptop screen to be the best. I can’t understand all the people plugging 2 huge monitors to their laptop.
- jeromenerf 5y ago
  I believe the limited view and interactivity offered by our small 2D screens at have a profound impact on our industry deliverables. I like a small notebook but I also use a large translucent sheet for plans and sketches or a giant blackboard for collaboration.
- egeozcan 5y ago
  I have a wide screen. On one side, the app I'm working on reloads itself as I'm working on it, middle is the code, right is docs. On a second virtual desktop I have chat, email and todos. Works perfect for me.
- LeSaucy 5y ago
  2 monitors attached to my laptop let’s me keep main teams window, active call window, obsidian/notes, and a full display for whatever I am working on/discussing/sharing all open simultaneously. Constantly alt-tabbing between a call window and notes is a chore.
- RedShift1 5y ago
  Personally I prefer 15.6" 1920x1080 for laptops. A lot of real estate and can keep it at 100% scaling.
adrian_b 5y ago

Havoc 5y ago

I love the casualness of this: >Since the LG UltraFine exposes a USB HID device to control its brightness, I wrote a driver to attach to it and expose the brightness adjustment through wsconsctl display.brightness. Worth noting that many of the NUC style minipcs have aftermarket fanless solutions available - google Akasa case for example. Apparently the ryzens take a sizable hit from single stick of mem but haven't tested it myself.

ngcc_hk 5y ago
At least I guess writing a control code for my dell 24 inches under mac is much difficult cf to *nix.
floatboth 5y ago
Single channel of RAM (you can put two sticks into one channel and leave the second one unused, which is really stupid but has been found on prebuilt desktops LOL) is always bad for performance, especially for onboard GPU.

0xcoffee 5y ago

This review didn't really convince me about the keyboard. 1. Boot into windows to configure it 2. Space bar sometimes sticks 3. Wrist pain because the key height 4. Led lights don't support dimming very well The keyboard costs $169.99! Why so much focus on the keyboard size (at a hefty premium), the desk looks huge and a regular keyboard is much cheaper, and only a couple cm wider.

eertami 5y ago
In his defence, the "regular"/cheap rubber dome keyboards you mention are unusable if you're used to mechanical switches. $170 is around average for something respectable. I've never understood penny pinching something like a keyboard, it's your interface to the computer and you use it every single working day. A 170$ mech keyboard from a good manufacturer will easily last more than 10 years. That said, I personally don't trust the reliability of Glorious.
- approxim8ion 5y ago
  > In his defence, the "regular"/cheap rubber dome keyboards you mention are unusable if you're used to mechanical switches. My solution to this has been "not getting used to mechanical switches." Even over 10 years, the cost really doesn't add up, and I have used fairly acceptable membrane/rubber dome keyboards that get the job done fine.
salamandersauce 5y ago
You can get 75% keyboards for much cheaper. Like you can easily get a mechanical one off Amazon for $50. With the Glorious GMMK Pro you are paying for the metal backplane, the ability to hotswap switches and in theory it should support QMK? Maybe? Depending on which chip it got. QMK would allow it to be configured outside Windows just with more effort.
maxmalkav 5y ago
I do like custom mechanical keyboards and I am quite "neutral" about GMMK boards. 1. I read on the product's page they are compatible with QMK firmware, which makes possible to configure the keyboard from Linux (and I guess from OpenBSD). Probably the convenient configuration app it's Windows-only, but it seems we are not limited to it 2. That's weird and should not happen. It may be a defect with the keyboard / stabilizers or it may be a problem with the spacebar key (it's bent, twisted or it has been manufactured with the wrong geometry), but definitely it should be addressed 3. My experience is that a proper chair with arm rests and a table at the right height make a wrist rest unnecessary (and it can be counterproductive from a ergonomics perspective) 4. Nothing to comment about the dimming feature While nowadays you can find all kinds of prices and qualities regarding mechanical keyboards, $169.99 is really "cheap" for an entry level custom keyboard with these features. My impression is that the keyboard hobby is one of those things you don't fully get until you are into it, it's a dangerous rabbit hole :-)

maxmalkav 5y ago

I totally understand the appeal of a totally silent desktop, been there :-) Making it fanless sounds like the obvious way but it gets quite expensive very soon (I just checked and just the DB4 seems to cost >200€ here in Europe). I secretly keep on wishing to build a true fanless system, but I have personally opted for something in between. A good quality PSU (fanless or with a fan only active after certain threshold), SSD drives (mechanical ones are terrible offenders about noise), a bulky CPU heatsink and good quality fans spinning at no more than 800 RPM can give you a really silent desktop for a reasonable price. If you need to add a discrete GPU to the equation you can get a not too power hungry one with decent fan regulation (they can work fanless under low workloads). While not fanless and not a truly 0dB system, any potential noise is covered by any background noise, even in quiet places, your own keyboard typing or the audio from your gaming session if you are stressing your GPU.

dtgriscom 5y ago
This. I have a Ryzen 7 3700X-based machine [1] with the factory CPU cooler, an SSD, and a quiet system fan. When idle, it's inaudible even with the exhaust fan facing you. When I'm compiling, the fan speeds up but you can only hear a quiet ticking. Any quieter would have had no value for me. [1] https://pcpartpicker.com/user/dtgriscom/saved/#view=P84p23 https://pcpartpicker.com/user/dtgriscom/saved/#view=P84p23
PragmaticPulp 5y ago
> a bulky CPU heatsink and good quality fans spinning at no more than 800 RPM can give you a really silent desktop for a reasonable price I’ve followed fanless PC cases for years, but I always arrive at the same conclusion: Modern fans, PSUs, and PC cases are so good that it’s not hard to build an effectively silent PC that uses fans for cooling. My GPU and PSU don’t even spin up their fans at all unless I’m playing a video game, at which point I’m wearing headphones anyway. A large CPU heatsink allows for slow spinning fans that are so quiet I can’t tell if they’re spinning at all without looking at them. The case itself is lined with acoustic damping material to attenuate noise even further. The loudest part of my recent builds hasn’t been the fans. It’s the noise made by the electromagnetic coils in the PSU. I had to swap power supplies to find an even quieter one, even though the fan wasn’t spinning. I could see how a truly fanless PC could have used (recording studio or maybe a dusty environment where airflow isn’t an option) but for most of us it’s not hard to build an effectively silent case with good fan and component selection.

joseflavio 5y ago

I have 3 fanless desktops and you can build them quite cheaply if 65w cpus are enough for you. You can get a fanless seasonic power supply for 90 usd and use cpu cooler Artic Alpine 12 for 25 USD - the remaining components including the case can be quite standard

maxmalkav 5y ago
The "problem" of using a regular case for totally fanless setup is these cases are designed with a fan-generated air flow in mind. The cases designed for passive operation, like the DB4 try to generate some airflow by convection to compensate. A setup like the one you describe can be quite OK (specially with modern hardware), but it may run kind of warm-ish due the lack of proper airflow (and heat kind of shortens life of electronic components in the long run). Worst case scenario, you can always install very low RPM fans to this setup.

gswdh 5y ago

I can’t imagine this guys posture with the monitor that low and small. I’m totally with this guys on the LEDs.

srean 5y ago

This reminded me of experiments with a case-less-fan-full setup. Not a cpu fan but a full-fledged table fan. As a cash-strapped recently exed-student of that time I had assembled a desktop based on AMD K6 CPU one summer. They were significantly cheaper than the Intel peers of that time. I had two favorite tests to check a running system (i) compile the kernel and (ii) run GNU Chess against each other. To my sinking disappointed both crashed repeatedly on this assembly, I had sunk quite a bit of my savings into this. Those days you had to take a lot of care choosing your hardware if you wanted to run Linux. Linux was largely an unknown entity in India at that time. We used to get Linux distributions (usually Redhat, Debian or Mandrake) on CDs that came with a magazine called PCQuest. Many thanks to Atul Chitnis (RIP) for popularizing an alternative path to a computer experience. Anything other than Windows was unimaginable in India at that time. Guessing it could be an overheating problem, I removed the case and directed a table fan at it - Problem solved! I had it run kernel compilation on a loop all through the day, no failures. Later I reapplied the thermal paste on the cpu/heatsink fixture (it had come as an assembly when I had purchased it). After that I could compile the kernel -- case closed. Came away with the realization that AMD chips though cheaper, they tend to run hotter. This turned out to be good learning too. Running 2 Athlon based desktops with their fans directed at me gave me enough heating in the winter as a grad student. Fun days.

LAC-Tech 5y ago

Is there any desktop machine I could buy off the shelf, in 2021, and OpenBSD would just work on it?

ussrlongbow 5y ago
As desktop or server?
- jalfresi 5y ago
  I'd be interested in an OpenBSD desktop

CorralPeltzer 5y ago

If you're into fully fanless PCs and don't mind paying a premium, Monster Labo are the only ones to my knowledge selling cases capable of dissipating the 300W+ that a full gaming desktop will generate: https://www.monsterlabo.com/shop https://www.monsterlabo.com/shop

christophilus 5y ago
Those look really attractive, too. I was expecting the typical, garish gaming rig.

ginko 5y ago

I recently went fanless by getting a Ryzen 7 mini pc (ASUS PN-50) and installing the mainboard in a fanless aftermarket case[0]. Works great. The CPU idles around 45C which is actually quite a bit cooler than with the original air cooled ASUS case. [0] https://www.akasa.com.tw/update.php?tpl=product/product.detail.tpl&no=181&type=Fanless%20Chassis&type_sub=Fanless%20NUC&model=A-NUC62-M1B https://www.akasa.com.tw/update.php?tpl=product/product.deta...

layoutIfNeeded 5y ago

Ah, the Streacom DB4... what a piece of art! For a while I was pondering whether to invest in a completely silent home server using the DB4, but it would have meant that I would need to go all-in with solid-state storage, which would get a bit pricey for a 4 Tb RAID10 array :(

pedrocr 5y ago

Great writeup. For someone so meticulous it's surprising that Gb/Tb is used where GB/TB is meant. Reading the X1 Nano review seems like that is consistent.

seaghost 5y ago

This looks to me very masochistic, so much pain to setup simple stuff like screen resolution, refresh rate, issues installing operating system.

opan 5y ago
It didn't seem like any of that was the fault of OpenBSD to me. The monitor may have just been a bad choice. Especially when he had to get that additional expansion card to use it, and still had issues. I hope he finds a way to get back to 60hz someday.

flyinghamster 5y ago

> but I was disappointed at how every non-server motherboard seems to be targeted towards gamers with all kinds of stupid flashing LEDs and aggressive branding. Yup, it's all gamer chic now. We NEED all those flashy LEDs inside that 4U rackmount case! :) Really, I don't care one way or the other, though for a server I'd want something with a BMC. More important to me is that the motherboard itself doesn't have any fans. If there's a little bitty fan on the chipset, don't just walk away, run.

brnt 5y ago
Gamer chic or gamer kitch...
moonbug 5y ago
you'll be wanting a SpectraLogic Black Pearl.
drdebug 5y ago
Motherboards have fan now?

beebeepka 5y ago

I am not taking PC build advice from a person that got their first AMD processor in 2021. Small 60 Hz monitor, crappy wireless mouse, and a Samsung 980 Pro SSD. But hey, the person was trying to build a non gaming machine. Disappointing article That said, I totally get what the author was going for. It's that I completely disagree with most choices Edit: downvote all you want, there's nothing about this build that merits fluff

flatiron 5y ago
The part about them scratching their head about csm had me scratching my head too. OpenBSD is wonderful. But at the same time not really tailored to this setup.
- oblak 5y ago
  Doesn't make much sense to me. I thought the whole point of BSD is to run old hardware [for various reasons]
  - flatiron 5y ago
    As far as BSD “reasons” net bsd might be the “run on anything” reason. OpenBSD is more “code quality and security”. For example hyperthrrading is disabled by default. They priority security over speed.
floatboth 5y ago
For work, I'd definitely prefer resolution over refresh rate, and 4K120 is still too expensive sadly. Agree on the mouse, non-gaming mice are bad. What's wrong with the 980 Pro?
- beebeepka 5y ago
  4k120 is not only expensive, it's plagued by all sorts of issues, not to mention fans. As for 980pro. It's just an Eco with the Pro branding. Check out 5he reviews. It's a joke

gigatexal 5y ago

Everything about this setup is amazing to me. The desk, the office, the high-dpi screen, the fanless nature: awesome. I wonder though is there any risk of coil whine?

floatboth 5y ago
There always is, though with desktops you can hand-pick the PSU and mainboard (and graphics card if using a dedicated one) to not have the whiny kind of inductors. Or you can add ambient noise, or listen to music :)
- gigatexal 5y ago
  is there any research that says something like a platinum or gold rated PSU will always or most of the time not have any coil whine? same for high-end or quality capped motherboards? or is it a fundamental thing in all electronics and we just don't hear it over the fans and other ambient noise?

dexterhaslem 5y ago

48 Hz ouch, i weep for the eyes.

josephd79 5y ago

What keyboard is that? Ps love the susuwatari keys

forbiddenlake 5y ago
Excerpt from the article: I’m not big into mechanical keyboards (aside from the one on my Dolch PAC 64) but after seeing LGR’s video about the Glorious GMMK Pro 75% keyboard, I decided to go with that one for my desktop.

OrvalWintermute 5y ago

I found this a real pleasure to read, as the author explained the why behind almost every decision, and was quite descriptive. Def hope to read more from Joshua.

mastax 5y ago

There are motherboards like the AsRock X570 Phantom Gaming-ITX/TB3 that support DP-out through the onboard usb-c. Either using a DP-in port with a discrete GPU, or through an integrated GPU. Always check the manual to ensure it works like you expect. The new Ryzen 5700G is getting retail availability soon, though its hard to say to wait for it - especially with availability as it is. I would certainly recommend a second stick of ram to run in dual channel mode which doubles the memory bandwidth. This is especially important for the onboard GPU but other CPU workloads as well.

toast0 5y ago
The 5700G is undoubtably better than the 4750G (unless you care about the pro features, I guess), but I don't think it's that big of a difference. CPU is one generation better, and GPU is about the same. I don't know what the grey market premium is on the 4750G these days though. I got my two 4650G processors last November, and it was only about $20 over suspected MSRP to get them on Aliexpress, but 4750G at that point had fewer vendors and a lot bigger premium. At that time, US based marketplaces bumped the price by another $50+, so I took my chances with Aliexpress (I had to order my chosen SFF heatsinks there anyway, so I had a test run with a lower cost item) and everything worked out fine.

bxparks 5y ago

This article made a passing reference to the lack of S3 Sleep on some laptops, so I did some googling to learn that there is something called "Modern Standby". I'm not sure I like the idea of my laptop randomly connecting to the internet and doing background work, after I explicitly told it to sleep.

minedwiz 5y ago
My work issued laptop is a Lenovo with modern sleep. Basically just means the thing never really sleeps, fans keep going. It used to be you could trick windows (sadly a work necessity) into using real S3 sleep via UEFI setting, but they broke it in 20-04.
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sys_64738 5y ago

Silent and low power are my important parameters. I've had good experience will Dell Optiplex for these two requirements.

noisem4ker 5y ago

That monitor position, simulating the placement on a laptop, goes against any basic ergonomy guidelines.

ghostly_s 5y ago

Don't really understand the convoluted USB-C setup. If you're using onboard graphics anyway, can't you get a mobo with onboard USB-C that will route that DP signal without the workaround?

eunice 5y ago

surprised to see so many people with 'inaudible' ryzen setups, my 3600 runs loud and hot with a noctua nhu9s

layer8 5y ago

For a passively cooled Ryzen APU system, I can recommend the Cirrus7 Incus: https://www.cirrus7.com/en/cirrus7-incus/ https://www.cirrus7.com/en/cirrus7-incus/

lxe 5y ago

Nice soldering iron!

sigzero 5y ago

The DB4 (I like the black) is a beautiful case.

indigodaddy 5y ago

Very nice article. I was also impressed by his stunningly beautiful site/blog design. A joy to read and look at on mobile.

peanut_worm 5y ago

Looks beautiful, I love the keyboards. I find something about the sound of a fan to be comforting. Reminds me of home. Although the fan on my work Macbook Air sounds like an air compressor and I am not a ‘fan’ of it at all :)

joeman1000 5y ago

Anyone else get secondhand neck strain just looking at the monitor position? Cool setup regardless! Nice website too. Thanks.

tbrock 5y ago

Why not just get an M1 macbook air? Its likely more performant, also has no fan, runs bsd, whats not to like? You could probably one day replace MacOS with openbsd if you wanted.

adamrt 5y ago
He stated multiple times in the article that he runs OpenBSD, which doesn't fully support the M1.