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How Do You Keep a Subway from Flooding in the Age of Rising Seas? (2019)
- TedDoesntTalk 5y agoHow will this hold up in 12 years? https://www.nasa.gov/feature/jpl/study-projects-a-surge-in-coastal-flooding-starting-in-2030s/ https://www.nasa.gov/feature/jpl/study-projects-a-surge-in-c...
- chrisco255 5y agohttps://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/sltrends/sltrends_station.shtml?id=8724580 https://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/sltrends/sltrends_station.... 110 years of 2.5mm per year. Something tells me the study you're referring to is wrong.
- yorwba 5y agoThe NASA study is about flooding at high tide, not just the mean sea level. If you look closely at the graph in your source, you'll notice that the "monthly mean sea level with the average seasonal cycle removed" curve has a lot of variance. Now add monthly and seasonal cycles back in...
- bottled_poe 5y agoMaybe we will need to take the name a bit more literally :)
- sorairopicture 5y agoI assume more higher up "subways" will happen sooner or later and the underground approach will be used much less.
- 29083011397778 5y agoI wouldn't count on it. Skytrain's [0] been a thing for a couple decades now, but hasn't been emulated everywhere. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SkyTrain_(Vancouver) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SkyTrain_(Vancouver)
- Taniwha 5y agoI places in Asia that have monsoon weather one typically walks UP a few steps before going down into a subway station (China/Taiwan/Hong Kong/etc)- for example this MTR entrance in Hong Kong: https://goo.gl/maps/MeiQU9HAKo5NgFAKA https://goo.gl/maps/MeiQU9HAKo5NgFAKA This is a great solution to short term small floods, but wont protect you against longer term, or waist deep+ street flooding like we saw in Henan last week.
- woutr_be 5y agoI’ve lived in Hong Kong for close to 10 years, and I never even thought about why almost every MTR entrance has a couple of steps up, only to go back down.
- odiroot 5y agoI noticed this in Chengdu and Taipei and wondered a few times, why go up just to go down. Thanks for explaining this!
- Symbiote 5y agoWith something like this: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Exit_A,_Sino-Singapore_Guangzhou_Knowledge_City_Station,_Guangzhou_Metro.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Exit_A,_Sino-Singapo... the intention is even clearer.
- Taniwha 5y agoYeah, thanks, I was actually looking for a pic of my favourite Shenzhen Science Museum entrance that has maybe 6 steps (and is a real pain to drag a suitcase up)
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- publicola1990 5y agoNewer systems being built in Asia are avoiding subways/underground systems and preferring elevated systems. In fact during a major flood, the elevated railway was pretty much the only servicing transporting system in effect.
- andi999 5y agoWhich ones do you have in mind? All new lines in Shanghai are underground and so in a few other Chinese cities.
- PicassoCTs 5y agoBangcok?
- JCharante 5y agoHanoi's lines under construction are all elevated.
- liotier 5y agoBecause they trade ugly surface volume occupation for being much cheaper. Flood resistance is a side-effect.
- em-bee 5y agofor someone who loves trains, above ground rails are not ugly
- ant6n 5y agoThe trains aren't ugly, the concrete infrastructure is. (Note that elevated trains in the US often look much nicer because they use steel structures, something that isn't being built today).
- JCharante 5y agoRoads are ugly too compared to a meadow. I'd rather have cars underground and human-powered vehicles and pedestrian only areas instead of roads.
- remarkEon 5y ago> Sandy had made a mockery of the largest subway system in the world Is the New York subway really the largest subway in the world? I thought that trophy went to subways in Tokyo or Seoul.
- LeoPanthera 5y agoIt depends how you measure it. NYC has the most stations, 424. Shanghai has the most track, 743 km, and the most annual riders, 2834.69m.
- remarkEon 5y agoIf I were to be the one deciding how to measure this, the “biggest” subway would be the one that moves the most people per day.
- vmception 5y agoNah, breadth and depth
- peterpost2 5y agodont forget width!
- magicalhippo 5y agoFor me, complexity would have to be a factor. A single ring line would in my view count as smaller than a more traditional "flared out" system, assuming they moved the same amount of passengers. Maybe a complexity factor based on number of distinct tunnels multiplied by number of riders? Hmmm, metrics are hard...
- chrischen 5y agoA quick Google says the Tokyo metro moves over 3.3 billion a year.
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- Nasrudith 5y agoI thought the walls were the major variable and relatedly how well the earth blocks water in addition to well the local presence. The cost of any street opening subway is needing some pumping as even if you have over-awnings gravity brings rainwater down and it is rare that a city large enough a subway makes sense is away from bodies of water.
- baybal2 5y agoThe Zhengzhou metro, one which got flooded, has blast doors in, and in between stations like most metros in the Bloc. The anger now is because despite millions spent on those blast doors, they were simply not activated. The shift chief of the metro was too afraid to stop the metro. The same for its very powerful flood defence pumps.
- hef19898 5y agoReminds me of a documentary on the flood gates at the Port of Rotterdam. They are operated automatically, humans cannot trigger them (if memory serves well). Reasoning was, that operators live nearby and might tend to close them too soon and too often. Now you have to trust the system to have a proper balance between keeping the port open and protecting communities. Up to now the Rotterdam system seems to work reasonably well so.
- routerl 5y agoDo you have a source for that please?
- LinuxBender 5y agoI don't have a source for their statement specific to the doors, but here are some videos that capture how horrific events are unfolding in China the last few days. [1] I suspect finding documented sources of mishaps will be tricky as they will likely be moderated [2] once found. [1] - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCT2kPBcD6tXn8TP_aV7BmgA/videos https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCT2kPBcD6tXn8TP_aV7BmgA/vid... [2] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27949726 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27949726
- Amin699 5y agoGood job
- andrew-v 5y agoWarsaw (Poland) uses the bulkheads which were designed originally during the cold war era to provide an atomic shelter for the civilians. Fortunately, they weren't ever used for the original purpose, but they are now used as a prevention during the storms. - Original article in Polish: https://www.komputerswiat.pl/artykuly/redakcyjne/grodzie-przeciwatomowe-uratowaly-warszawskie-metro-jak-dziala-system-ktory-pozwala-na/bksflxy https://www.komputerswiat.pl/artykuly/redakcyjne/grodzie-prz... - Just the video showing the partition: https://streamable.com/390cxk https://streamable.com/390cxk
- K5EiS 5y agoDo they close off the whole subway system?
- renw0rp 5y agothe whole point is that they only need to shut off the stations which are at risk of flooding PS. I think only the stations build as the first phase of the first line (planned in the '70s-'80s and finished mid '90s) have this feature.
- canal-crab 5y agoIt's been the age of rising seas for 20,000 years. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Post-Glacial_Sea_Level.png https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Post-Glacial_Sea_Lev...
- moultano 5y agoYou mean 8,000 years ago, there was an age of rising seas for the preceding 10,000 years.
- spodek 5y agoWe can't change the past so have decades to centuries of climate change to handle, but we can do a lot more to stop future contributions to climate change. The biggest effect anyone can have, beyond fewer kids, less meat, and flying less, is learning to lead others, which multiplies our effects. Of course, to lead others we have to lead ourselves first, which means fewer kids, less meat, flying less, and all those, as means to the end of leading others, especially CEOs and elected officials.
- swader999 5y agoMeanwhile CCP going to extreme measures to reverse their one child policy. Last week, banning tutoring to decrease the cost of raising a child.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]