4 ms·

Desalination plants are vastly more expensive than current water conservation solutions. Solving a problem with tech is sexy, especially on HN, but simple progr

Desalination plants are vastly more expensive than current water conservation solutions. Solving a problem with tech is sexy, especially on HN, but simple programs like canal lining and drip irrigation are much cost effective for now. It's not a forever solution, but conserving water resources will take a patchwork of half-measures and incremental progress. There does not appear to be a silver bullet.

enraged_camel 5y ago
The other problem with desalination is pollution. Brine, for example, needs to be released somewhere.
- azinman2 5y ago
  Could it be turned into table salt?
  - throwawayboise 5y ago
    I doubt there is that much demand for table salt. Maybe it could be used to deice roads in areas that have freezing weather in the wintertime, now most places use mined salt for that.
    - tamaharbor 5y ago
      The exhaust muffler industry would love that.
  - bbarnett 5y ago
    Sea salt is filled with mondo micro-plastic particles, so I think this would be that, plus other "stuff" thrown in. EG, leakage/contaminants from the desalination process. The best table salt we can currently get, it stuff mined from old oceans. No contaminants, no plastic, etc. For example, Windsor has huge mines in rural Windsor, ON, Canada.. and doesn't just supply table salt, but road salt, water softener salt, etc, the supply has been used for 100 years, sold internationally, and shows no sign of exhaustion... from one old-sea underground deposit. (There's plenty of table salt, no shortages...)
- throwawayboise 5y ago
  Just dump it back in the ocean (at a suitable depth/distance from shore). Almost all of the purified water will eventually return to the ocean so there won't be a net concentration of salt (not to mention the ocean is really, really big).
  - simfree 5y ago
    For SoCal it could be detained in the Salton Sea and likely have quite a positive impact in improving water quality there.
seanmcdirmid 5y ago
Investing some public money in research to make desalination more economically would be worthwhile, even if it isn’t a very viable solution right now. Or bringing down the price of energy as renewable sources themselves become more economical could change the economics by itself. It would be a pity to give up on almonds.
- mlyle 5y ago
  Right now, many farmers spend under $100 per acre-foot of water; 80% of non-environmental water goes to agriculture. Water prices in urban areas are $1000 per acre-foot of water, because distribution is expensive. Desalination of brackish water can cost $1200-1500 per acre foot, and moderate improvements in costs could make desalination economically viable for urban water. But it would require a truly massive improvement to be competitive for agricultural water use, and because most use of water is agricultural, we can only reap small benefits from desalination.
  - apcragg 5y ago
    Not to mention that we'd need to pump those millions of acre-feet uphill into the various agricultural regions. Some are lower lying but if California is serious about its GHG targets, it won't be building the massive power stations required to pump all of that water in addition to desalinating it.
    - seanmcdirmid 5y ago
      Assuming the the other challenges can be met, me solution to distribution is to use desalinated water to fill up underground aquifers. The other option is simply to move agriculture closer to the coasts.
      - mlyle 5y ago
        The Central Valley aquifer does not extend to the coast and is poorly connected to the coastal aquifier: https://www.usgs.gov/mission-areas/water-resources/science/central-valley-aquifer?qt-science_center_objects=0#qt-science_center_objects https://www.usgs.gov/mission-areas/water-resources/science/c... There is not enough flat, cultivatable land closer to the coasts to move much agriculture out of the central valley towards the coast, even if desal'd water was free.
hellbannedguy 5y ago
We are about to pass a trillion dollar nebious Infractructure Bill passed, which I imagine is filled with pork. I pretty sure most Californians would be happy if they got a few strategically placed desalination plants.
curation 5y ago
Association between exposure to desalinated sea water and ischemic heart disease, diabetes mellitus and colorectal cancer; A population-based study in Israel https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S001393511830358X?via%3Dihub https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00139...
- spfzero 5y ago
  Ah, mineral deficiency. This would be the same for people drinking distilled water they bought at the grocery store, so it might not be fair to pin it on desalinated water. The link title implies all of these things were associated, but the article summary says only ischemic heart disease, and no association for the others, if I read correctly.

enraged_camel 5y ago

The other problem with desalination is pollution. Brine, for example, needs to be released somewhere.

azinman2 5y ago
Could it be turned into table salt?
- throwawayboise 5y ago
  I doubt there is that much demand for table salt. Maybe it could be used to deice roads in areas that have freezing weather in the wintertime, now most places use mined salt for that.
  - tamaharbor 5y ago
    The exhaust muffler industry would love that.
- bbarnett 5y ago
  Sea salt is filled with mondo micro-plastic particles, so I think this would be that, plus other "stuff" thrown in. EG, leakage/contaminants from the desalination process. The best table salt we can currently get, it stuff mined from old oceans. No contaminants, no plastic, etc. For example, Windsor has huge mines in rural Windsor, ON, Canada.. and doesn't just supply table salt, but road salt, water softener salt, etc, the supply has been used for 100 years, sold internationally, and shows no sign of exhaustion... from one old-sea underground deposit. (There's plenty of table salt, no shortages...)
throwawayboise 5y ago
Just dump it back in the ocean (at a suitable depth/distance from shore). Almost all of the purified water will eventually return to the ocean so there won't be a net concentration of salt (not to mention the ocean is really, really big).
- simfree 5y ago
  For SoCal it could be detained in the Salton Sea and likely have quite a positive impact in improving water quality there.

seanmcdirmid 5y ago

Investing some public money in research to make desalination more economically would be worthwhile, even if it isn’t a very viable solution right now. Or bringing down the price of energy as renewable sources themselves become more economical could change the economics by itself. It would be a pity to give up on almonds.

mlyle 5y ago
Right now, many farmers spend under $100 per acre-foot of water; 80% of non-environmental water goes to agriculture. Water prices in urban areas are $1000 per acre-foot of water, because distribution is expensive. Desalination of brackish water can cost $1200-1500 per acre foot, and moderate improvements in costs could make desalination economically viable for urban water. But it would require a truly massive improvement to be competitive for agricultural water use, and because most use of water is agricultural, we can only reap small benefits from desalination.
- apcragg 5y ago
  Not to mention that we'd need to pump those millions of acre-feet uphill into the various agricultural regions. Some are lower lying but if California is serious about its GHG targets, it won't be building the massive power stations required to pump all of that water in addition to desalinating it.
  - seanmcdirmid 5y ago
    Assuming the the other challenges can be met, me solution to distribution is to use desalinated water to fill up underground aquifers. The other option is simply to move agriculture closer to the coasts.
    - mlyle 5y ago
      The Central Valley aquifer does not extend to the coast and is poorly connected to the coastal aquifier: https://www.usgs.gov/mission-areas/water-resources/science/central-valley-aquifer?qt-science_center_objects=0#qt-science_center_objects https://www.usgs.gov/mission-areas/water-resources/science/c... There is not enough flat, cultivatable land closer to the coasts to move much agriculture out of the central valley towards the coast, even if desal'd water was free.

hellbannedguy 5y ago

We are about to pass a trillion dollar nebious Infractructure Bill passed, which I imagine is filled with pork. I pretty sure most Californians would be happy if they got a few strategically placed desalination plants.

curation 5y ago

Association between exposure to desalinated sea water and ischemic heart disease, diabetes mellitus and colorectal cancer; A population-based study in Israel https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S001393511830358X?via%3Dihub https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00139...

spfzero 5y ago
Ah, mineral deficiency. This would be the same for people drinking distilled water they bought at the grocery store, so it might not be fair to pin it on desalinated water. The link title implies all of these things were associated, but the article summary says only ischemic heart disease, and no association for the others, if I read correctly.