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IMO if you expand PC to cover mobile computing, the real tragedy is iPhone. No sideloading, very restrictive app store policies, and no custom OSes at all. At l

by aftbit 5y ago

IMO if you expand PC to cover mobile computing, the real tragedy is iPhone. No sideloading, very restrictive app store policies, and no custom OSes at all. At least with a Windows desktop or laptop, you can run Linux or one of the other actually free OSes. Modern MacOS is also pretty unfriendly for developers and power users, but at least Apple is somewhat aligned with users on privacy and security, unlike Microsoft.

Wowfunhappy 5y ago
> Modern MacOS is also pretty unfriendly for developers and power users. It has become somewhat unfriendly, but I really appreciate that you can still do whatever you want. To run self-signed apps, run `sudo spctl --master-disable` To turn off System Integrity Protection, run `csrutil --disable` from recovery mode. To modify the root filesystem, do all of the above and run `csrutil authenticated-root disable` from recovery mode. To disable library validation, do all of the above and run `sudo defaults write /Library/Preferences/com.apple.security.libraryvalidation.plist DisableLibraryValidation -bool true` To disable AMFI, do all of the above and add the boot argument amfi_get_out_of_my_way=0x1 (Some steps may be a bit different on Apple Silicon Macs, I don't own any so I'm not as familiar.) --- You now have the same privileges Apple does. You can grant yourself whatever entitlements you like, inject your own code into any process, load your own kernel extensions, or just replace the whole kernel with your custom build of XNU. I actually think a decent chunk of macOS's perceived "unfriendliness" comes from Mac users being less willing to hack around than users of other OSs. The common refrain in Mac circles seems to be that System Integrity Protection should never be switched off under any circumstances. I agree, if you're a normal user—but if you're not, and the handcuffs are annoying you, just unlock them already. (But do leave everything else in place until such a time as it presents a roadblock.) Also, method swizzling in Objective-C is fun, try it!
- joshtynjala 5y ago
  There’s a safer way to run self-signed software on macOS, for anyone that prefers not to do the master disable. First, try to run the program. When it fails, open Settings.app and go to the security section. You’ll find the most recently blocked program name mentioned and an Allow button that will remove the block. Then, you can run the program. You need to do this only once per program.
  - api 5y ago
    Right click open. Fail. Right click open again, hit okay, and it will succeed. It remembers your decision. This has been the magic incantation since signing was introduced.
jsjohnst 5y ago
> the real tragedy is iPhone. No sideloading I’m so tired of seeing folks parroting no sideloading on iOS. That’s not been true for a long time. Yes, the conditions of side loading (needs a free developer account, must have app signing refreshed weekly, etc) might not be palatable for your taste (which I’d generally agree), but to say it’s not possible to sideload apps on a stock iOS device is just wrong.
- Wowfunhappy 5y ago
  IMO, saying "no side-loading" is as good as correct, and getting technical about it just creates confusion and muddies the waters. Unless you're paying $99 per year for a developer account, what little sideloading Apple offers is completely useless for anything but limited testing. Who wants to reinstall an app they actually use every seven days? The semi-exception is Altstore, which is a fantastic project... but it's a major hack which sometimes breaks, and which Apple is liable to kill at any time. You also need to keep a server running on a PC or Mac on your wifi network, which isn't workable in a lot of situations. I mean, my iPhone can run unsandboxed sideloaded apps, because it's jailbroken. But I wouldn't say that Apple allows third-party unsandboxed apps.
  - 36rdydudhdh 5y ago
    I don't see how you can say with a straight face that getting technical just creates confusion and muddled waters when side-loading is already something that mainly technical users do. It just seems like a lazy way to dismiss valid criticism. The vast majority of users don't side-load on their phones or have any interest in learning to do so. Side-loading is already technical.
    - lolinder 5y ago
      Those are two different definitions of technical. When you accuse someone of "getting technical", it has a very specific meaning: It means that they're overemphasizing the dictionary definition at the cost of more practical considerations. That's exactly what's happening here, by calling what Apple allows on iPhone "sideloading". Yes, technically, you are able to get an app on your phone without going through the app store. But without a paid developer account, the fact that you have to reinstall weekly is intentionally designed to make that impractical for actual use.

by aftbit 5y ago

Wowfunhappy 5y ago

> Modern MacOS is also pretty unfriendly for developers and power users. It has become somewhat unfriendly, but I really appreciate that you can still do whatever you want. To run self-signed apps, run `sudo spctl --master-disable` To turn off System Integrity Protection, run `csrutil --disable` from recovery mode. To modify the root filesystem, do all of the above and run `csrutil authenticated-root disable` from recovery mode. To disable library validation, do all of the above and run `sudo defaults write /Library/Preferences/com.apple.security.libraryvalidation.plist DisableLibraryValidation -bool true` To disable AMFI, do all of the above and add the boot argument amfi_get_out_of_my_way=0x1 (Some steps may be a bit different on Apple Silicon Macs, I don't own any so I'm not as familiar.) --- You now have the same privileges Apple does. You can grant yourself whatever entitlements you like, inject your own code into any process, load your own kernel extensions, or just replace the whole kernel with your custom build of XNU. I actually think a decent chunk of macOS's perceived "unfriendliness" comes from Mac users being less willing to hack around than users of other OSs. The common refrain in Mac circles seems to be that System Integrity Protection should never be switched off under any circumstances. I agree, if you're a normal user—but if you're not, and the handcuffs are annoying you, just unlock them already. (But do leave everything else in place until such a time as it presents a roadblock.) Also, method swizzling in Objective-C is fun, try it!

joshtynjala 5y ago
There’s a safer way to run self-signed software on macOS, for anyone that prefers not to do the master disable. First, try to run the program. When it fails, open Settings.app and go to the security section. You’ll find the most recently blocked program name mentioned and an Allow button that will remove the block. Then, you can run the program. You need to do this only once per program.
- api 5y ago
  Right click open. Fail. Right click open again, hit okay, and it will succeed. It remembers your decision. This has been the magic incantation since signing was introduced.

jsjohnst 5y ago

> the real tragedy is iPhone. No sideloading I’m so tired of seeing folks parroting no sideloading on iOS. That’s not been true for a long time. Yes, the conditions of side loading (needs a free developer account, must have app signing refreshed weekly, etc) might not be palatable for your taste (which I’d generally agree), but to say it’s not possible to sideload apps on a stock iOS device is just wrong.

Wowfunhappy 5y ago
IMO, saying "no side-loading" is as good as correct, and getting technical about it just creates confusion and muddies the waters. Unless you're paying $99 per year for a developer account, what little sideloading Apple offers is completely useless for anything but limited testing. Who wants to reinstall an app they actually use every seven days? The semi-exception is Altstore, which is a fantastic project... but it's a major hack which sometimes breaks, and which Apple is liable to kill at any time. You also need to keep a server running on a PC or Mac on your wifi network, which isn't workable in a lot of situations. I mean, my iPhone can run unsandboxed sideloaded apps, because it's jailbroken. But I wouldn't say that Apple allows third-party unsandboxed apps.
- 36rdydudhdh 5y ago
  I don't see how you can say with a straight face that getting technical just creates confusion and muddled waters when side-loading is already something that mainly technical users do. It just seems like a lazy way to dismiss valid criticism. The vast majority of users don't side-load on their phones or have any interest in learning to do so. Side-loading is already technical.
  - lolinder 5y ago
    Those are two different definitions of technical. When you accuse someone of "getting technical", it has a very specific meaning: It means that they're overemphasizing the dictionary definition at the cost of more practical considerations. That's exactly what's happening here, by calling what Apple allows on iPhone "sideloading". Yes, technically, you are able to get an app on your phone without going through the app store. But without a paid developer account, the fact that you have to reinstall weekly is intentionally designed to make that impractical for actual use.