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"Playing with toys" is a really dismissive way to describe the combined effort of 1000s of engineers and blue collar workers who innovated on a scale existing s

madeofpalk 5y ago
Yes, space engineering is impressive. Bezos and Branson, less so. They just have money.
- ekianjo 5y ago
  there are other billionaires who do nothing relevant at all with it.
jrootabega 5y ago
Perhaps they are treating the 1000s of engineers and blue collar workers as toys?
- nextaccountic 5y ago
  It's like modern-day Pyramids: large scale engineering projects made for personal vanity. Which isn't to say they didn't advance engineering as a whole or weren't otherwise beneficial.
  - hellbannedguy 5y ago
    Speaking of vanity. How much thought did Bezos put into those Cowboy hats? It seemed like his was a calculated move? Single, and ready to mingle? "If I put them on everyone, I might come off better? I'm actually a fan of his rocket company. I did find it a bit sad we are so behind in terms of what I pictured the future to be when I watched Apollo land on the moon.
    - jackvalentine 5y ago
      Before he exited the ship someone outside is seen gesturing for him to put the hat on. It is 100% a calculated "I'm a space cowboy" image maker.
- gruez 5y ago
  What's the difference between them treating "1000s of engineers and blue collar workers as toys", and everyone else enjoying movies/games/trinkets made by humans?
  - teslafire124 5y ago
    It reduces the value of a human being? These billionaires are blowing money on their personal midlife crises when they could be raising worker wages and helping to end poverty with billions to spare. People were able to go into space before billionaires wanted to do it on a whim, you know.
    - gruez 5y ago
      >It reduces the value of a human being? Why does it reduce the value of a human being? What's the difference between a billionaire employing 1000 people for his frivolous needs compared to a million people employing 0.001 people each for their frivolous needs? >These billionaires are blowing money on their personal midlife crises when they could be raising worker wages and helping to end poverty with billions to spare. And what about all the people living in 3bd room houses, driving luxury cars, buying electronics, when they can be saving a life for as little as $3000[1]? Are they bad people for spending $3000 on creature comforts when they can be literally saving lives with that money? > People were able to go into space before billionaires wanted to do it on a whim, you know. Ever since the cold war ended, "going into space" has moving ahead at a glacial pace. I for one welcome the increased funding. This funding chart[2] that gets passed along captures this dynamic perfectly. Would people want fusion power regardless of billionaires? Yes. That doesn't mean I wouldn't want billionaires funding fusion research to speed things up. [1] https://www.givewell.org/giving101/Your-dollar-goes-further-overseas https://www.givewell.org/giving101/Your-dollar-goes-further-... [2] https://external-preview.redd.it/LkKBNe1NW51Wh-8nLSTRdQtTha2sV1yY46vhUWcu_6g.png?auto=webp&s=1f89a143a488f2e4b5306a25a87e21282332e2ef https://external-preview.redd.it/LkKBNe1NW51Wh-8nLSTRdQtTha2...
      - teslafire124 5y ago
        You're just making excuses for them. They made a lot of money so they deserve to sit on it and use it just for themselves. I'm not talking about other people, I'm talking about people who only focus on continually acquiring money so they can blow it all on themselves when there is plenty for the rest of the world.
Guest42 5y ago
Can you elaborate on “innovated on a scale existing space companies haven’t in decades...”? I’m not aware of anything they did that couldn’t have been done elsewhere provided the resources were dedicated and am curious of the significance. My position is more aligned with the parent post.
- sokoloff 5y ago
  Reducing the cost of payload insertion by a factor of 100 qualifies in my book. People had transportation before Karl Benz and Henry Ford. I don’t think they did anything that couldn’t have been done elsewhere provided the resources were dedicated.
- ekianjo 5y ago
  the NASA has been blowing dozens of billions in the past 20 years and still has no rocket to show and certainly nothing reusable.
  - throw0101a 5y ago
    > the NASA has … been throwing money at SpaceX since (at least) 2006: * https://www.nasa.gov/exploration/news/COTS_selection.html https://www.nasa.gov/exploration/news/COTS_selection.html The thing about R&D is that you do not know ahead of time what will work and what will fail. Some of NASA's programs failed and some have succeeded. But there was no way to know if SpaceX would be the winner, or SLS, or anything else. SpaceX itself nearly failed: * https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/29/elon-musk-9-years-ago-spacex-nearly-failed-itself-out-of-existence.html https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/29/elon-musk-9-years-ago-spacex... > … and certainly nothing reusable. Reusable was never done before (AFAICT). It turns out that it is actually technically possible and useful. But there was no way to know that ahead of time. It was a risk that SpaceX, and NASA by funding them, that just happened to work out.
zeusk 5y ago
1000s of engineers are also involved in Lego and other actual toys :) Racecars are my personal toys - only needed a few thousand from BMW for public production and a few hundred for the aftermarket support.
alabamacadabra 5y ago
Yes it is, isn’t it? It should place into context EXACTLY how this behavior is seen by sensible people. You are plying with toys.
kiba 5y ago
"Playing with toys" is a really dismissive way to describe the combined effort of 1000s of engineers and blue collar workers who innovated on a scale existing space companies haven't in decades to produce a service that will be utilized by millions in the near future for a fraction of the cost it once was. On a competitive landscape, these companies are too late to the party with too little to show for it, and they are likely to be eclipsed by startups if they remain so slow in their progress. It would be great if Bezo has a real rivalry with Elon, but sadly that is not the case.
- roenxi 5y ago
  You may be in for a surprise. Starting late and being "slow" aren't actually the big predictors for failure. Particularly in the tech industry we should all remember Apple, who was persistently identified as slow, late and only making incremental improvements until the ungodly profits and overwhelming success of their strategy forced all the grumpy types to quiet down. And it turned out that as long as there are consistent incremental improvements "slow" is very hard to judge. In hindsight, Apple was moving very fast. Not saying any particular venture will succeed, but the qualifications for success aren't speed nor earliness. Success comes from clear communication, solving a problem and correctly identifying opportunity.
  - kiba 5y ago
    Blue Origin has twenty years plus to make their case. SpaceX is slightly younger, but about the same age. If anything, Blue Origin had a head start. They squandered it.
- rich_sasha 5y ago
  Who knows, Tesla was “late” to the car building gig, electric car research has been going on already. Now they seem to be ahead.
ashtonkem 5y ago
How else would you describe a vanity trip in pursuit of being the “first billionaire in space”?

madeofpalk 5y ago

Yes, space engineering is impressive. Bezos and Branson, less so. They just have money.

ekianjo 5y ago
there are other billionaires who do nothing relevant at all with it.

jrootabega 5y ago

Perhaps they are treating the 1000s of engineers and blue collar workers as toys?

nextaccountic 5y ago
It's like modern-day Pyramids: large scale engineering projects made for personal vanity. Which isn't to say they didn't advance engineering as a whole or weren't otherwise beneficial.
- hellbannedguy 5y ago
  Speaking of vanity. How much thought did Bezos put into those Cowboy hats? It seemed like his was a calculated move? Single, and ready to mingle? "If I put them on everyone, I might come off better? I'm actually a fan of his rocket company. I did find it a bit sad we are so behind in terms of what I pictured the future to be when I watched Apollo land on the moon.
  - jackvalentine 5y ago
    Before he exited the ship someone outside is seen gesturing for him to put the hat on. It is 100% a calculated "I'm a space cowboy" image maker.
gruez 5y ago
What's the difference between them treating "1000s of engineers and blue collar workers as toys", and everyone else enjoying movies/games/trinkets made by humans?
- teslafire124 5y ago
  It reduces the value of a human being? These billionaires are blowing money on their personal midlife crises when they could be raising worker wages and helping to end poverty with billions to spare. People were able to go into space before billionaires wanted to do it on a whim, you know.
  - gruez 5y ago
    >It reduces the value of a human being? Why does it reduce the value of a human being? What's the difference between a billionaire employing 1000 people for his frivolous needs compared to a million people employing 0.001 people each for their frivolous needs? >These billionaires are blowing money on their personal midlife crises when they could be raising worker wages and helping to end poverty with billions to spare. And what about all the people living in 3bd room houses, driving luxury cars, buying electronics, when they can be saving a life for as little as $3000[1]? Are they bad people for spending $3000 on creature comforts when they can be literally saving lives with that money? > People were able to go into space before billionaires wanted to do it on a whim, you know. Ever since the cold war ended, "going into space" has moving ahead at a glacial pace. I for one welcome the increased funding. This funding chart[2] that gets passed along captures this dynamic perfectly. Would people want fusion power regardless of billionaires? Yes. That doesn't mean I wouldn't want billionaires funding fusion research to speed things up. [1] https://www.givewell.org/giving101/Your-dollar-goes-further-overseas https://www.givewell.org/giving101/Your-dollar-goes-further-... [2] https://external-preview.redd.it/LkKBNe1NW51Wh-8nLSTRdQtTha2sV1yY46vhUWcu_6g.png?auto=webp&s=1f89a143a488f2e4b5306a25a87e21282332e2ef https://external-preview.redd.it/LkKBNe1NW51Wh-8nLSTRdQtTha2...
    - teslafire124 5y ago
      You're just making excuses for them. They made a lot of money so they deserve to sit on it and use it just for themselves. I'm not talking about other people, I'm talking about people who only focus on continually acquiring money so they can blow it all on themselves when there is plenty for the rest of the world.

Guest42 5y ago

Can you elaborate on “innovated on a scale existing space companies haven’t in decades...”? I’m not aware of anything they did that couldn’t have been done elsewhere provided the resources were dedicated and am curious of the significance. My position is more aligned with the parent post.

sokoloff 5y ago
Reducing the cost of payload insertion by a factor of 100 qualifies in my book. People had transportation before Karl Benz and Henry Ford. I don’t think they did anything that couldn’t have been done elsewhere provided the resources were dedicated.
ekianjo 5y ago
the NASA has been blowing dozens of billions in the past 20 years and still has no rocket to show and certainly nothing reusable.
- throw0101a 5y ago
  > the NASA has … been throwing money at SpaceX since (at least) 2006: * https://www.nasa.gov/exploration/news/COTS_selection.html https://www.nasa.gov/exploration/news/COTS_selection.html The thing about R&D is that you do not know ahead of time what will work and what will fail. Some of NASA's programs failed and some have succeeded. But there was no way to know if SpaceX would be the winner, or SLS, or anything else. SpaceX itself nearly failed: * https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/29/elon-musk-9-years-ago-spacex-nearly-failed-itself-out-of-existence.html https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/29/elon-musk-9-years-ago-spacex... > … and certainly nothing reusable. Reusable was never done before (AFAICT). It turns out that it is actually technically possible and useful. But there was no way to know that ahead of time. It was a risk that SpaceX, and NASA by funding them, that just happened to work out.

zeusk 5y ago

1000s of engineers are also involved in Lego and other actual toys :) Racecars are my personal toys - only needed a few thousand from BMW for public production and a few hundred for the aftermarket support.

alabamacadabra 5y ago

Yes it is, isn’t it? It should place into context EXACTLY how this behavior is seen by sensible people. You are plying with toys.

kiba 5y ago

"Playing with toys" is a really dismissive way to describe the combined effort of 1000s of engineers and blue collar workers who innovated on a scale existing space companies haven't in decades to produce a service that will be utilized by millions in the near future for a fraction of the cost it once was. On a competitive landscape, these companies are too late to the party with too little to show for it, and they are likely to be eclipsed by startups if they remain so slow in their progress. It would be great if Bezo has a real rivalry with Elon, but sadly that is not the case.

roenxi 5y ago
You may be in for a surprise. Starting late and being "slow" aren't actually the big predictors for failure. Particularly in the tech industry we should all remember Apple, who was persistently identified as slow, late and only making incremental improvements until the ungodly profits and overwhelming success of their strategy forced all the grumpy types to quiet down. And it turned out that as long as there are consistent incremental improvements "slow" is very hard to judge. In hindsight, Apple was moving very fast. Not saying any particular venture will succeed, but the qualifications for success aren't speed nor earliness. Success comes from clear communication, solving a problem and correctly identifying opportunity.
- kiba 5y ago
  Blue Origin has twenty years plus to make their case. SpaceX is slightly younger, but about the same age. If anything, Blue Origin had a head start. They squandered it.
rich_sasha 5y ago
Who knows, Tesla was “late” to the car building gig, electric car research has been going on already. Now they seem to be ahead.

ashtonkem 5y ago

How else would you describe a vanity trip in pursuit of being the “first billionaire in space”?