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Your bias is showing, as is your blinkered view of what's possible on an iPad. For many, many people, the iPad absolutely DOES replace having a traditional com

Your bias is showing, as is your blinkered view of what's possible on an iPad. For many, many people, the iPad absolutely DOES replace having a traditional computer. The prediction came true. I rarely bother traveling with a laptop anymore unless I need to present or run demos. My iPad pro + the fancy keyboard case gives me insane portability and battery life plus access to all my files (via Dropbox), native Office, etc. Whining that "you can't do anything but game and consume in iOS" in 2021 is just hilariously wrong.

sumtechguy 5y ago
That is what many people do with their computers. It fits what they do. I personally was very excited about the iPad right up until the point I found out it had been 'downgraded' to use the iPhone interface. It went from 'shut up take my money' to 'meh, i will get something else' pretty much instantly. I have bought a few for family members. They use it for gaming, watching videos, and some light web surfing. I personally just use a nice light laptop. You can extend it like you have. But many people do not. If I had to 'do over' I might go down the route you have. But as is I am pretty sunk into my work flow.
alerighi 5y ago
To me a PC is a device that runs whatever software you need, and that you can program to do the stuff that you need. iOS imposes limitations on that, you cannot run third party applications that are not on the store, you can't write your own programs or scripts, or you can with 100 limitations that makes it in practice impossible to do so. And I'm not talking about the hardware, it's powerful, probably more powerful by a lot of computers, but in the end the stuff that you can do on an iPad is far less than the stuff that you can do with a Raspberry Pi, a 35$ computer, but with Linux on it, and that lets you do whatever you want.
- 8ytecoder 5y ago
  It's a very small cohort of people that want to do "whatever they want". Most people do productive stuff within the bounds of what's possible in an iPad - I mean Office/Outlook, Social Media, a full fledged browser with most websites supporting mobile mode now, reading apps, video/entertainment apps, games, social media apps, even corporate vpn apps are readily available. My dev environment is the only one I know of that I have to absolutely have a laptop for.
  - vorpalhex 5y ago
    I got a phone call from my nephew a few weeks back asking how to mod an NES rom. My wife pretty frequently wants to do simple room diagrams. I'm hosting a game night for an RPG. Everybody needs a laptop - the player software doesn't work in Safari. I frequently pull and add notes to large passages of text. My notes are kept in markdown and in the cloud. This workflow is basically unusable outside of a real computer. Most people want real computers.
    - ubermonkey 5y ago
      Your definition of “most” is wrong. MOST people don’t want or need to do any of the things you mention. BUT let’s talk about them: 1. The ROM. Sure, hardware hacking is probably going to require specialized tools not available in iOS. Most people don’t do this, though. 2. There’s nothing about “simple room diagrams” that suggests this is a task you need a traditional desktop/laptop to do — unless you’re insisting on using a drawing program that only exists on those platforms. No points here. 3. I’m taking your word for it that your software won’t work in Safari, but plenty of us played RPGs for decades without having any computers around at all, and I’ve definitely been party to game nights where an iPad was entirely sufficient. 4. I mostly live in text files, too. You know what works great on my iPad? Text files. No idea what you’ve done to your workflow to make it impossible to do on a tablet, but suffice it to say it’s not an inherent limit to iOS (or, I presume, Android). All that said, nobody is arguing that YOU should switch tools. But it’s hilariously wrong to insist that iPads aren’t “real” computers, or aren’t capable of handling a broad range of general computing tasks that formerly required full-on laptops or desktops.
  - alerighi 5y ago
    Yes, you can use an iPad to connect via remote desktop to a PC somewhere to do serious work. All other things, you can't. Let's talk about office. Try to open a spreadsheet with macros on an iPad, of course you can't, even if Microsoft wants to implement it, that would violate the clause that an application shouldn't run third party code. A lot of companies have spreadsheets with macros to do their administration (I don't say that this is good, I only say that in the real world Excel is abused and that is a fact). Safari doesn't have the same support of Firefox/Chrome. In my country for a couple of sites of some public administration you still need Internet Explorer! Even if the site work on Safari, they are probably not optimized for touchscreens and mostly thought to be used with a keyboard and a mouse. And all the other applications? How about all the management software that is used in all companies? Email clients? Too basic compared on the one for PC. Other specific applications? The one on iOS are more basic. Specific kind of software to talk to specific equipment? Doesn't exist. Support for external USB OTG devices? Practically not existent on iOS.
- ubermonkey 5y ago
  Your definition of "PC" is really, really narrow, then. IOW, you're defining "PC" in a way that excludes the thing you don't want to define as a "computer," which amounts to a semantic game, not a description of reality. For many, many people, an iPad answers all the needs they have. It's a computer.
arvinsim 5y ago
Ironically, it's Apple themselves with the M1 laptops that make the iPad case much less appealing. The laptop can do everything that the iPad can do except being a touchscreen device.
- speedgoose 5y ago
  The lack of a touchscreen and a tablet mode on the m1 MacBook is a major downside though. A lot of apps are more user friendly on the iPad too.
  - 8ytecoder 5y ago
    Agreed. The iPad is leaps and bounds better for casual device use during travel - reading, movies, music, emails, browsing, social media and some casual document editing works just fine on the iPad. Except for the development environment, I don't need to reach for a laptop at all. I can even read code via the Github app. So, unless I know I have to write code, I don't carry my laptop anymore. 10 years (or even 5 years ago), this was unthinkable for me.
    - asdff 5y ago
      Really? I find the laptop still better for that stuff. For the ipad you have to use some clunky folding stand thing. Its awkward to sit there with it on your lap waiting for a flight, or have to hold it up in front of you with one hand and do something with the other. Laptop on the other hand is pretty comfortable on a lap, and macbooks these days don't weigh very much at all.
      - ubermonkey 5y ago
        Key to the use case would be a robust folding keyboard/stand situation. I use the "magic" one from Apple, but there are less spendy competitors available now.
smoldesu 5y ago
I have a friend who did the same thing as you (go full-time iPad), but eventually switched to an XPS when his favorite apps started getting pulled. He built a pretty impressive workflow, but it required him to pay for a dev license and do a bunch of other super complicated stuff to maintain it. Once they pulled his favorite emulator (GBA4iOS), it was the last straw. YMMV, but this guy couldn't even use the device for entertainment/reliable text editing. If that's what it takes to replace a "traditional computer", then I'm pretty sure my left shoe qualifies as one.
vorpalhex 5y ago
I have a latest gen iPad and file management is a disaster. Apps are so sandboxed that either every app needs access to my dropbox or you have to go through the atrocious files interface - assuming your app even actually supports the files dialog. God help you if you actually want to browse a network share or use a non-standard cloud. The iPad is just barely, barely capable of downloading a document from email, opening it, signing it and emailing it back out. I bet most users couldn't do it without instruction.
- benhurmarcel 5y ago
  > either every app needs access to my dropbox To be fair, on a PC every app has access to your Dropbox.
  - vorpalhex 5y ago
    On a PC, the moment I power it off those apps no longer have access. That access is controlled by filesystem permission, and exfiltrating that data is relatively hard. Every app on my ipad needs oauth access. That means those credentials can sit on a remote server and be leaked or used at will, and no firewall or filesystem permission is going to help me.
woojoo666 5y ago
To be fair many, many people can also get everything done on their phone too. An ipad gives more screen space and better multitasking. A 2-in-1 (like a Surface Pro) gives even better multitasking and file management. It's all up to what you need.

sumtechguy 5y ago

That is what many people do with their computers. It fits what they do. I personally was very excited about the iPad right up until the point I found out it had been 'downgraded' to use the iPhone interface. It went from 'shut up take my money' to 'meh, i will get something else' pretty much instantly. I have bought a few for family members. They use it for gaming, watching videos, and some light web surfing. I personally just use a nice light laptop. You can extend it like you have. But many people do not. If I had to 'do over' I might go down the route you have. But as is I am pretty sunk into my work flow.

alerighi 5y ago

To me a PC is a device that runs whatever software you need, and that you can program to do the stuff that you need. iOS imposes limitations on that, you cannot run third party applications that are not on the store, you can't write your own programs or scripts, or you can with 100 limitations that makes it in practice impossible to do so. And I'm not talking about the hardware, it's powerful, probably more powerful by a lot of computers, but in the end the stuff that you can do on an iPad is far less than the stuff that you can do with a Raspberry Pi, a 35$ computer, but with Linux on it, and that lets you do whatever you want.

8ytecoder 5y ago
It's a very small cohort of people that want to do "whatever they want". Most people do productive stuff within the bounds of what's possible in an iPad - I mean Office/Outlook, Social Media, a full fledged browser with most websites supporting mobile mode now, reading apps, video/entertainment apps, games, social media apps, even corporate vpn apps are readily available. My dev environment is the only one I know of that I have to absolutely have a laptop for.
- vorpalhex 5y ago
  I got a phone call from my nephew a few weeks back asking how to mod an NES rom. My wife pretty frequently wants to do simple room diagrams. I'm hosting a game night for an RPG. Everybody needs a laptop - the player software doesn't work in Safari. I frequently pull and add notes to large passages of text. My notes are kept in markdown and in the cloud. This workflow is basically unusable outside of a real computer. Most people want real computers.
  - ubermonkey 5y ago
    Your definition of “most” is wrong. MOST people don’t want or need to do any of the things you mention. BUT let’s talk about them: 1. The ROM. Sure, hardware hacking is probably going to require specialized tools not available in iOS. Most people don’t do this, though. 2. There’s nothing about “simple room diagrams” that suggests this is a task you need a traditional desktop/laptop to do — unless you’re insisting on using a drawing program that only exists on those platforms. No points here. 3. I’m taking your word for it that your software won’t work in Safari, but plenty of us played RPGs for decades without having any computers around at all, and I’ve definitely been party to game nights where an iPad was entirely sufficient. 4. I mostly live in text files, too. You know what works great on my iPad? Text files. No idea what you’ve done to your workflow to make it impossible to do on a tablet, but suffice it to say it’s not an inherent limit to iOS (or, I presume, Android). All that said, nobody is arguing that YOU should switch tools. But it’s hilariously wrong to insist that iPads aren’t “real” computers, or aren’t capable of handling a broad range of general computing tasks that formerly required full-on laptops or desktops.
- alerighi 5y ago
  Yes, you can use an iPad to connect via remote desktop to a PC somewhere to do serious work. All other things, you can't. Let's talk about office. Try to open a spreadsheet with macros on an iPad, of course you can't, even if Microsoft wants to implement it, that would violate the clause that an application shouldn't run third party code. A lot of companies have spreadsheets with macros to do their administration (I don't say that this is good, I only say that in the real world Excel is abused and that is a fact). Safari doesn't have the same support of Firefox/Chrome. In my country for a couple of sites of some public administration you still need Internet Explorer! Even if the site work on Safari, they are probably not optimized for touchscreens and mostly thought to be used with a keyboard and a mouse. And all the other applications? How about all the management software that is used in all companies? Email clients? Too basic compared on the one for PC. Other specific applications? The one on iOS are more basic. Specific kind of software to talk to specific equipment? Doesn't exist. Support for external USB OTG devices? Practically not existent on iOS.
ubermonkey 5y ago
Your definition of "PC" is really, really narrow, then. IOW, you're defining "PC" in a way that excludes the thing you don't want to define as a "computer," which amounts to a semantic game, not a description of reality. For many, many people, an iPad answers all the needs they have. It's a computer.

arvinsim 5y ago

Ironically, it's Apple themselves with the M1 laptops that make the iPad case much less appealing. The laptop can do everything that the iPad can do except being a touchscreen device.

speedgoose 5y ago
The lack of a touchscreen and a tablet mode on the m1 MacBook is a major downside though. A lot of apps are more user friendly on the iPad too.
- 8ytecoder 5y ago
  Agreed. The iPad is leaps and bounds better for casual device use during travel - reading, movies, music, emails, browsing, social media and some casual document editing works just fine on the iPad. Except for the development environment, I don't need to reach for a laptop at all. I can even read code via the Github app. So, unless I know I have to write code, I don't carry my laptop anymore. 10 years (or even 5 years ago), this was unthinkable for me.
  - asdff 5y ago
    Really? I find the laptop still better for that stuff. For the ipad you have to use some clunky folding stand thing. Its awkward to sit there with it on your lap waiting for a flight, or have to hold it up in front of you with one hand and do something with the other. Laptop on the other hand is pretty comfortable on a lap, and macbooks these days don't weigh very much at all.
    - ubermonkey 5y ago
      Key to the use case would be a robust folding keyboard/stand situation. I use the "magic" one from Apple, but there are less spendy competitors available now.

smoldesu 5y ago

I have a friend who did the same thing as you (go full-time iPad), but eventually switched to an XPS when his favorite apps started getting pulled. He built a pretty impressive workflow, but it required him to pay for a dev license and do a bunch of other super complicated stuff to maintain it. Once they pulled his favorite emulator (GBA4iOS), it was the last straw. YMMV, but this guy couldn't even use the device for entertainment/reliable text editing. If that's what it takes to replace a "traditional computer", then I'm pretty sure my left shoe qualifies as one.

vorpalhex 5y ago

I have a latest gen iPad and file management is a disaster. Apps are so sandboxed that either every app needs access to my dropbox or you have to go through the atrocious files interface - assuming your app even actually supports the files dialog. God help you if you actually want to browse a network share or use a non-standard cloud. The iPad is just barely, barely capable of downloading a document from email, opening it, signing it and emailing it back out. I bet most users couldn't do it without instruction.

benhurmarcel 5y ago
> either every app needs access to my dropbox To be fair, on a PC every app has access to your Dropbox.
- vorpalhex 5y ago
  On a PC, the moment I power it off those apps no longer have access. That access is controlled by filesystem permission, and exfiltrating that data is relatively hard. Every app on my ipad needs oauth access. That means those credentials can sit on a remote server and be leaked or used at will, and no firewall or filesystem permission is going to help me.

woojoo666 5y ago

To be fair many, many people can also get everything done on their phone too. An ipad gives more screen space and better multitasking. A 2-in-1 (like a Surface Pro) gives even better multitasking and file management. It's all up to what you need.