4 ms·

This is a sexist comment and could be career-ending if made by someone of the opposite sex. For a demonstration why: "The problem is that (class of people that

This is a sexist comment and could be career-ending if made by someone of the opposite sex. For a demonstration why: "The problem is that (class of people that encompasses billions of unrelated individuals worldwide) start (any kind of negative action in particular)" No matter what you fill those variables with, it remains a broad, harmful generalization. I'm sorry you had to work with unprofessional assholes that won't take 'no' for an answer, but your experience is not license to slander literally half of the planet.

will4274 5y ago
I feel very ambivalent about your comment. Parents comment is sexist and you are absolutely correct in saying that men can and are fired at some workplaces for making similar comments that generalize women. On the other hand, parents comment is also true. I'm a man btw.
throwaway675309 5y ago
Yep, likely wasn't intentional, but that person's statement does have the air of, "they are INSERT_CLASS, so it's in their nature"...
Supermancho 5y ago
> As a woman in tech, the problem is that men start hitting on you when they’ve had a few beers. > I'm sorry you had to work with unprofessional assholes that won't take 'no' for an answer, but your experience is not license to slander literally half of the planet. You've broadened the original statement to say more than was commented. The original did not say "all men" or even "only men". Quite the disingenuous interpretation turned around to try to make up a controversy.
- Karunamon 5y ago
  >the problem is that men... >the problem is that women... Not one sentence beginning this way in this context will ever be anything other than a sexist generalization. That was the point being made, and I stand by it.
  - taurath 5y ago
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NotAllMen https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NotAllMen Please educate yourself on how this shuts down debate over intolerant behavior. The tolerance of other men is required for activity like this - and /obviously/ there are many men who find this behavior awful but also clearly /not enough/ to stop it from happening. Yes, of course, not all men do this shit. But it’s enough to have a considerable impact on people. Usually there’s a small number of abusers and then a large group of people tolerating or egging on the abuse. This is why they’re describing a “frat bro” culture in the legal suit.
    - Karunamon 5y ago
      Here, sure. We're describing concrete allegations against specific people. However, mentioning a class of people without qualification colloquially means 'all', and would not be tolerated or seen as anything other than an ignorant, discriminatory, prejudicial comment in any other context. Tarring an entire sex as having any problem in particular is disgusting. The article you linked even includes the following quote: If we genuinely oppose prejudice on the grounds of identity, rather than seek to elevate certain identities and disparage others, there is no shame and much worth in pointing out when negative stereotypes are applied to men. The original comment could have been made without the generalization and would have carried just as much weight. The fact that your last paragraph begins with "of course.." is proof that you recognize that this is an inaccurate generalization. Let's have less of that. That's what I'm asking for.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - taurath 5y ago
        > Tarring an entire sex as having any problem in particular is disgusting. Yes, and it misses the point. “I have a problem with men coming up to me at work and slapping my ass” Should not be responded to with “No men I know have done that, this is clearly sexist!” It’s a semantic argument that doesn’t address the actual problem.
- oh_sigh 5y ago
  Is there any reason to believe that the "men in tech" are significantly different from all men? If anyone made sexist claims about women in tech, would they not actually be sexist because the claims are just about women in tech and not women in general? If you're against the broadening the reading of claims, do you think that Garcia Martinez should be reinstated at Apple? For reference, he was fired over claims of sexism, because in a book he published before being hired, he wrote something along the lines of "Bay area women are weak, Eastern European women are strong"

will4274 5y ago

I feel very ambivalent about your comment. Parents comment is sexist and you are absolutely correct in saying that men can and are fired at some workplaces for making similar comments that generalize women. On the other hand, parents comment is also true. I'm a man btw.

throwaway675309 5y ago

Yep, likely wasn't intentional, but that person's statement does have the air of, "they are INSERT_CLASS, so it's in their nature"...

Supermancho 5y ago

> As a woman in tech, the problem is that men start hitting on you when they’ve had a few beers. > I'm sorry you had to work with unprofessional assholes that won't take 'no' for an answer, but your experience is not license to slander literally half of the planet. You've broadened the original statement to say more than was commented. The original did not say "all men" or even "only men". Quite the disingenuous interpretation turned around to try to make up a controversy.

Karunamon 5y ago
>the problem is that men... >the problem is that women... Not one sentence beginning this way in this context will ever be anything other than a sexist generalization. That was the point being made, and I stand by it.
- taurath 5y ago
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NotAllMen https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NotAllMen Please educate yourself on how this shuts down debate over intolerant behavior. The tolerance of other men is required for activity like this - and /obviously/ there are many men who find this behavior awful but also clearly /not enough/ to stop it from happening. Yes, of course, not all men do this shit. But it’s enough to have a considerable impact on people. Usually there’s a small number of abusers and then a large group of people tolerating or egging on the abuse. This is why they’re describing a “frat bro” culture in the legal suit.
  - Karunamon 5y ago
    Here, sure. We're describing concrete allegations against specific people. However, mentioning a class of people without qualification colloquially means 'all', and would not be tolerated or seen as anything other than an ignorant, discriminatory, prejudicial comment in any other context. Tarring an entire sex as having any problem in particular is disgusting. The article you linked even includes the following quote: If we genuinely oppose prejudice on the grounds of identity, rather than seek to elevate certain identities and disparage others, there is no shame and much worth in pointing out when negative stereotypes are applied to men. The original comment could have been made without the generalization and would have carried just as much weight. The fact that your last paragraph begins with "of course.." is proof that you recognize that this is an inaccurate generalization. Let's have less of that. That's what I'm asking for.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - taurath 5y ago
      > Tarring an entire sex as having any problem in particular is disgusting. Yes, and it misses the point. “I have a problem with men coming up to me at work and slapping my ass” Should not be responded to with “No men I know have done that, this is clearly sexist!” It’s a semantic argument that doesn’t address the actual problem.
oh_sigh 5y ago
Is there any reason to believe that the "men in tech" are significantly different from all men? If anyone made sexist claims about women in tech, would they not actually be sexist because the claims are just about women in tech and not women in general? If you're against the broadening the reading of claims, do you think that Garcia Martinez should be reinstated at Apple? For reference, he was fired over claims of sexism, because in a book he published before being hired, he wrote something along the lines of "Bay area women are weak, Eastern European women are strong"