5 ms·

As usual, a sensational headline averring a research article's causal hypothesis, of which the PI even calls for reproducibility. Reading such paltry science ar

As usual, a sensational headline averring a research article's causal hypothesis, of which the PI even calls for reproducibility. Reading such paltry science articles makes me really appreciate papers like Quanta, whose reporters seem to actually have a semblance of domain knowledge. Indeed, no discussion of the existing link between schizophrenia and tobacco smoking, in conjunction with the increased availability of marijuana?

ignostic 5y ago
> of which the PI even calls for reproducibility You mean like every study I've ever read? I can't recall the last time the conclusion didn't say something like, "In our study X appears to be associated with Y, but more research is needed to understand the relationship." You're right, though, that this article leaves many questions unasked. We know that people who are schizophrenic are far more likely to smoke cigarettes, but there is evidence to suggest they're more likely to smoke before their first episode as well. So is tobacco causal? Probably not. Instead, there are probably precursor symptoms to diagnosable schizophrenia that drive tobacco use: anxiety being the main one. Anxiety and marijuana has already been studied with conflicting results, probably because it's hard to determine out whether people with anxiety are drawn to marijuana (or heavier usage) or whether heavy usage causes anxiety. There are reasons to think marijuana use can cause schizophrenic episodes - sometimes a first episode - but that use may not increase the risk of developing the disorder when viewed in a 20-year window. In other words, it happens sooner. So according to the article the number of schizophrenia cases linked to cannabis use disorder increased by 4x. I'd like to know whether schizophrenia diagnoses overall changed significantly. I am not saying there are no risks. But I am agreeing that the article does a bad job of analyzing the science.
gwern 5y ago
The population level prevalence is where we should see this. If cannabis really did cause SCZ, as opposed to merely being self-medication, general drug use dysfunctionality, or possibly just accelerating SCZ onset but not increasing total cases, we should see incredibly high rates in recreational legalizing jurisdictions where prevalence is now a large fraction of the population. Instead, buried at the end, we get "The findings could help explain the "general increase in the incidence of schizophrenia that has been observed in recent years" and provides some support that the "long-observed association between cannabis and schizophrenia is likely partially causal in nature," the study said." OK then...
- trutannus 5y ago
  > If cannabis really did cause SCZ, as opposed to merely being self-medication, general drug use dysfunctionality, or possibly just accelerating SCZ onset but not increasing total cases, we should see incredibly high rates in recreational legalizing jurisdictions where prevalence is now a large fraction of the population So basically, let's keep watching Canada's national legalization and Switzerland's targeted trials to see what the population level impact is.
- da_big_ghey 5y ago
  not in necesity: maybe heavy users are using with or without law, maybe law mostly causing casual users to use it but not many more heavy ones. If then only heavy use is cause schizofrenia, we maybe are not seeing a great growth of rates.
bongoman37 5y ago
All PIs always call for more research. Its another way of saying I need more funds.

ignostic 5y ago

> of which the PI even calls for reproducibility You mean like every study I've ever read? I can't recall the last time the conclusion didn't say something like, "In our study X appears to be associated with Y, but more research is needed to understand the relationship." You're right, though, that this article leaves many questions unasked. We know that people who are schizophrenic are far more likely to smoke cigarettes, but there is evidence to suggest they're more likely to smoke before their first episode as well. So is tobacco causal? Probably not. Instead, there are probably precursor symptoms to diagnosable schizophrenia that drive tobacco use: anxiety being the main one. Anxiety and marijuana has already been studied with conflicting results, probably because it's hard to determine out whether people with anxiety are drawn to marijuana (or heavier usage) or whether heavy usage causes anxiety. There are reasons to think marijuana use can cause schizophrenic episodes - sometimes a first episode - but that use may not increase the risk of developing the disorder when viewed in a 20-year window. In other words, it happens sooner. So according to the article the number of schizophrenia cases linked to cannabis use disorder increased by 4x. I'd like to know whether schizophrenia diagnoses overall changed significantly. I am not saying there are no risks. But I am agreeing that the article does a bad job of analyzing the science.

gwern 5y ago

The population level prevalence is where we should see this. If cannabis really did cause SCZ, as opposed to merely being self-medication, general drug use dysfunctionality, or possibly just accelerating SCZ onset but not increasing total cases, we should see incredibly high rates in recreational legalizing jurisdictions where prevalence is now a large fraction of the population. Instead, buried at the end, we get "The findings could help explain the "general increase in the incidence of schizophrenia that has been observed in recent years" and provides some support that the "long-observed association between cannabis and schizophrenia is likely partially causal in nature," the study said." OK then...

trutannus 5y ago
> If cannabis really did cause SCZ, as opposed to merely being self-medication, general drug use dysfunctionality, or possibly just accelerating SCZ onset but not increasing total cases, we should see incredibly high rates in recreational legalizing jurisdictions where prevalence is now a large fraction of the population So basically, let's keep watching Canada's national legalization and Switzerland's targeted trials to see what the population level impact is.
da_big_ghey 5y ago
not in necesity: maybe heavy users are using with or without law, maybe law mostly causing casual users to use it but not many more heavy ones. If then only heavy use is cause schizofrenia, we maybe are not seeing a great growth of rates.

bongoman37 5y ago

All PIs always call for more research. Its another way of saying I need more funds.