10 ms·

Why won’t Americans get vaccinated?

50 points by cpncrunch 5y ago

boulos 5y ago
The underlying data [1] is 250 pages of lots more questions. It also has other breakdowns that folks might find interesting. [1] https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/w2zmwpzsq0/econTabReport.pdf https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/w2zmwpzsq0/econTabReport.pdf
- Symmetry 5y ago
  Interesting but I wish they'd included some questions that get to the root of the questions I have about why so many people don't want the vaccine. Things like Did you hear about the suspension of the J&J vaccine? Did you hear that the suspension of the J&J vaccine had been lifted? If the FDA were to grant regular authorization for use of a Covid vaccine how likely would you be to take it? And so forth.
- fieryscribe 5y ago
  Thanks for sharing. One thing caught my eye in that report. It says that 57% of Black and 61% of Hispanic respondents claim to have been fully vaccinated. The totals across 40 states in the US are 36% and 41% respectively [1]: > Less than half of Black and Hispanic people have received at least one COVID-19 vaccine dose in nearly all states reporting data, including a number of states where less than a third have received a vaccine I'm aware that polls have a skew, but I can't figure out how those numbers are so different, especially since the latter numbers are about people who have received at least one dose, not the full dose. [1] https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/issue-brief/latest-data-on-covid-19-vaccinations-race-ethnicity/ https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/issue-brief/latest-...
98Windows 5y ago
>One in five Americans believes the US government is using the COVID-19 vaccine to microchip the population lol america is fuk
alea_iacta_est 5y ago
Garbage article. Lie: > Vaccine rejection is higher among whites than it is among black and Hispanic Americans The data: https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#vaccination-demographic https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#vaccination-demogr...
- raphlinus 5y ago
  These are two different things. The fact that Black and Hispanic Americans are not getting the vaccine is more due to access than it is to vaccine rejection. See https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-biggest-barriers-to-covid-vaccination-for-black-and-latinx-people1/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-biggest-barri... for a more detailed discussion. Also observe in Figure 4 of https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/issue-brief/latest-data-on-covid-19-vaccinations-race-ethnicity/ https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/issue-brief/latest-... that while the percentage of whites that have gotten vaccinated his higher than Black and Hispanic groups, the slope of the curve is higher in the latter cases - if trends continue, the lines will cross, just as Canada has exceeded the US vaccination rate, and possibly for similar reasons.
  - jsight 5y ago
    I don't see how that could be true. The Wal-Marts here offer free vaccines for anyone. We seem to be past the point where availability should be a significant hindrance.
    - bigbillheck 5y ago
      What happens when you get the usual reactions to the second shot (knocked low for a couple days) and you lose your job because you can't come in? EDIT: I'm eating the downvotes on this one, but it's an actual excuse I've seen reported in the wild. Even if they don't lose their job, many people are living very close to the edge and the loss of a couple days salary is a big deal. I personally was unable to really work for a day and a half, and couldn't have driven myself there (or back) anyway. I'm very lucky in that I work from home and have plenty of paid sick leave, but that's not a situation experienced by lots of people.
aww_dang 5y ago
A more interesting question would be, "Why does the US have such low confidence in the media institutions ceaselessly promoting vaccination?"
- LimaBearz 5y ago
  I don’t have cable so I’m sorry but can you explain that to me? The only thing I’ve seen a lot of is personalities or people whose others might respect come out and verbally push for it, I haven’t seen anyone carelessly promoting it, it’s quite safe to take. A lot of questions I’ve seen asked, have been asked and answered. Those that chose not take the vaccine seem to be suffering from seeing only what they want to be seeing, no? What exactly is “carelessly promoting” mean in this context. Edit: ah OP edited his post, s/carelessly/ceaselessly/
  - aww_dang 5y ago
    https://www.lexico.com/definition/ceaselessly https://www.lexico.com/definition/ceaselessly ADVERB Continuously and without end. ‘a former policeman who has campaigned ceaselessly on his daughter's behalf’
- pjc50 5y ago
  Well, half the media has spent years systematically destroying trust in government as a concept, so it's perhaps not surprising?
  - JohnWhigham 5y ago
    destroying trust in government as a concept I despise all mainstream media, but if there's any one entity to chiefly blame for that, it's the federal government itself.
    - toomuchtodo 5y ago
      If you live your life as an American citizen or resident, you have the federal government to blame for the exceptionally high quality of life you lead. Perhaps it's because I'm informed and educated, but besides the DoD, I have nothing but good things to say about the current state of the executive and judicial branches, as well as federal agencies. For a taste of the alternative, book airfare to Haiti, Somalia, or Venezuela.
underseacables 5y ago
My opinion is that a lot of Americans are uneasy about government, pharmaceutical, and the media, all pushing the same narrative over a virus that has a 99% survival rate. After decades of pushing drugs on us, and using the government to mandate vaccines like HPV, regardless of effectiveness, and the media manipulating us at every turn, trust in these institutions is less than rock bottom. If Americans are not getting vaccinated it’s not the citizens fault, its these institutions that suddenly want us to trust them. Personally I’m waiting as long as possible, let everyone else do the beta testing. Edit: I have had Covid as-well as everyone in my family.
- alisonkisk 5y ago
  why aren't people boycotting insulin or lipitor from big pharma? 1% death rate is pretty bad for a single disease everyone is going to get eventually. And the hospitalization rate is much higher than 1%
  - underseacables 5y ago
    Surely you jest. Insulin and Lipitor have been studied for decades, both for safety and efficacy. Both are proven life-saving drugs. But I’ll take your point seriously: perhaps in a few years when more studies have been done to show the same efficacy and safety for the vaccine, people might begin to trust it more.
    - pjc50 5y ago
      > in a few years Too late.
  - muttantt 5y ago
    They should, especially because fixing type 2 diabetes and high cholesterol is a relatively easy with proper nutrition in just a few weeks.
    - giardini 5y ago
      muttantt says >"fixing type 2 diabetes and high cholesterol is a relatively easy with proper nutrition in just a few weeks."< Leaving "high cholesterol" aside, everything I've read and seen indicates that "fixing type 2 diabetes" is extremely difficult, takes months to years rather than weeks, and is especially difficult to maintain. One of my friends is yo-yoing his weight right now (e.g., down 50 lbs, up 25, down 5,...) in an attempt to cease insulin. I had no idea someone's weight could vary so quickly. His daughter polices his diet carefully, he hides candy bars and other goodies, it's an amazing struggle. Can you cite any studies that clearly state it is "relatively easy to fix type 2 diabetes"? "
stalfosknight 5y ago
Because vast amounts of the general public are tremendously stupid and/or superstitious.
- user743 5y ago
  Spoken like a true complicity theorist.
yardie 5y ago
I got the vaccine and a lot of my coworkers have not. I made the mistake of telling them the results. It was 2x 3-days of me bitching and moaning about a sore arm and just feeling aches while the innoculation worked its magic. Since TFG convinced a lot of Americans the virus is no worse than a light flu somehow my achy arm is way worse than any flu. So now the vaccine is not worth taking because those 6 total days of achiness are worse than being in ICU. It's that fucking dumb. In hindsight I should have kept my mouth shut and said everything was fine.
- Grim-444 5y ago
  35 million people in the US have tested positive with Covid. Additional millions likely had it and weren't tested. What percentage of those tens of millions that caught Covid do you believe would up in the ICU versus having light flu symptoms, or no symptoms at all?
  - an_opabinia 5y ago
    People are downvoting you because you’re saying something in bad faith, knowing full well you can just punch into Google and go down this specific thread of argument all you want. But to keep this on topic, being on the “don’t deal with it” side of a public health crisis is a great example of the limits of contrarianism - it’s always bad faith to be a contrarian in that context, but not all contexts. So you do you!
    - EricE 5y ago
      Why are you assuming he's saying it in bad faith? How is pointing out actual facts being a contrarian? Indeed, contrarian to what, exactly?
      - walkedaway 5y ago
        Telling that you're being downvoted by HN community for asking a legitimate question.
  - 5y ago
airza 5y ago
9% of people think the government is using the vaccine to microchip the population... but got it anyway? Huh?
- TigeriusKirk 5y ago
  Probably the Lizardman Constant. https://slatestarcodex.com/2013/04/12/noisy-poll-results-and-reptilian-muslim-climatologists-from-mars/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2013/04/12/noisy-poll-results-and...
- throwaway0a5e 5y ago
  If you told me one in ten people thinks the vaccine is a microchip I wouldn't believe you. If you told me that one in ten people would troll someone conducting a survey I would be surprised the number is that low.
  - seattle_spring 5y ago
    > If you told me one in ten people thinks the vaccine is a microchip I wouldn't believe you I would. I live out in the country and the people in my area believe some absolutely bonkers stuff.
- arsome 5y ago
  To be fair, I'd tell a survey company that too, because it's fucking hilarious.
- ReptileMan 5y ago
  A lot of them are trolling. I will give such stupid answer just for the lolz
- throwslackforce 5y ago
  The chart does indicate 9% of fully vaccinated people believe that the vaccine microchips the population, with another 9% not sure. I wish they'd done a follow-up question where they asked that 9% "do you think your vaccine contained microchips" to see if the answers were logically consistent.
api 5y ago
Americans won't get vaccinated because there were no WMDs in Iraq. There's lots more examples like that, but that's a big one and is illustrative.
- throwaway0a5e 5y ago
  An entire generation has grown up since then. I think WMDs 17yr ago is a lot less less influential in terms of media distrust than a year ago when they were proclaiming there was no/negligible chance of a lab leak and then spent early 2021 trying to simultaneously walk that back with the weakest possible admission that mistakes were made and simultaneously making an equally strong claim that the vaccine is effective and safe. Frankly I'm surprised that the percentage of the population who isn't vaccinated is as low as it is.
ReptileMan 5y ago
Because the vaccine message was completely wrong? For starters COVID 19 is relatively benign compared to the other stuff you vaccinate against. And unlike the other vaccines which were marketed as - I don't want to get polio/my kids to get polio, this was done as moral duty which is to protect others - which not as much people buy in. Throw in the speedy approval process, the Astra Zenecca feud with Brussels, the media being media with side effects stories and the constant annoying moralizing preaching of the very online crowd, the fact that vaccine is still no reason to ditch the masks - and it is no wonder that hesitancy is so strong. Got jabbed with Pfizer in February - I don't think it was worth it. I am still forced to wear masks even though there is just no good evidence that vaccinated people could be infectious at any rates comparable to unvaccinated.
- EricE 5y ago
  No kidding. Also I'm not surprised you are being downvoted despite making some very valid points. I couldn't believe one of the first nurses they vaccinated at the beginning of the rollout was one prone to fainting - who then fainted. SERIOUSLY? If they wanted to instill confidence that's NOT the way to do it. It's like they were trying to sow division from the start. And then they wonder why people are distrustful? Changing medical "facts" based on the politics of the moment hasn't done any of the "experts" any favors - from no mask, to masks, to double/triple the masks (freaking clown show, that one) now masks even if you have had it/get the jab (absolutely NO medial basis for that policy) - it's just nuts. If you want to have a really good time, just look up dear Dr. Fauci and his handling of AIDS in the 80's and SARS in the 90's. How that man still holds the position he does is simply mind boggling. He's less reliable than the local weather forecaster and at least they have a good reason for their accuracy and won't kill people based on being moronically wrong. When you look at how he downplayed AIDS when it was well known he was flat out wrong; how many hundreds of thousands died (especially in the gay community) that didn't have to? On balance vaccines are a slam dunk positive; I'm certainly NOT an anti-vaxxer (just got my shingles vaccine - shingles are nasty; don't fool around!). I'm just not in a hurry for the COVID vaccines when I don't have to be - especially when it's still under emergency approval. Heck there are still studies narrowing down the optimal dose size - the smaller you can make it while still being effective greatly diminishes the side effects and it could be as much as half of what they are currently doing according to more than one recent study I have seen. That's a huge difference! I have had allergic reactions in the past so yeah, I have zero problem waiting a bit until more of this stuff gets refined. That's hardly a nutter/denier position, yet there seems to be zero room for nuance in public discourse these days. It's either you are part of the heard/groupthink or you are worse than a nazi, non-human and subject to immediate purge from the planet :p
Rd6n6 5y ago
Most Americans are getting vaccinated. This title makes it seem like most are not Edit: “almost all” changed to “most”
- colinmhayes 5y ago
  68% of adults is not what I would call almost all. That number has barely budged in months so it seems there is a good 30% of Americans who will not get vaccinated.
  - h2odragon 5y ago
    Does the number of people infected and recovered figure in anywhere? natural antibodies are likely to be better, imo.
    - ryathal 5y ago
      That number matters for herd immunity, but it's basically unknowable, it's likely that puts the US above 70%.
    - volker48 5y ago
      Seems like vaccine antibodies target a broader range of variants https://directorsblog.nih.gov/2021/06/22/how-immunity-generated-from-covid-19-vaccines-differs-from-an-infection/ https://directorsblog.nih.gov/2021/06/22/how-immunity-genera... Antibody titers are higher from vaccines as well. "After the second dose of the vaccine, antibody titers were up to 10 times higher than those of patients who had recovered from natural COVID-19 infection, suggesting that even those with prior exposure could benefit from vaccination." https://www.contagionlive.com/view/immune-response-from-mrna-covid-19-vaccines-is-more-robust-than-natural-infection https://www.contagionlive.com/view/immune-response-from-mrna...
TigeriusKirk 5y ago
As a thought experiment, what if we called it the "Trump Vaccine" would that caused a large chunk of the unvaccinated to change their minds? How many lives would it save? Would we be willing to do that?
- GuB-42 5y ago
  I'm sure some democrats will refuse the vaccine out of spite. I actually know people who don't want to get vaccinated out of spite. A change in the ad campaign could work, appeal to republican values but without alienating democrats in the process
  - J5892 5y ago
    Just rebrand it and make the Trump/Freedom version an option. Others can just get the normal one.
- CodeGlitch 5y ago
  You're not thinking American enough: "Freedom Vaccine". Get a free stars and Stripes flag with every injection.
- TMWNN 5y ago
  As a thought experiment, what if we called it the "Trump Vaccine" would that caused a large chunk of the unvaccinated to change their minds? Conversely, using that name would have caused many others to not want it. Biden, Harris, and Pelosi all said they won't trust any Trump vaccine. (<https://www.newsweek.com/anti-vaccine-covid-trust-skepticism-democrat-politicization-1535559 https://www.newsweek.com/anti-vaccine-covid-trust-skepticism...>)
peanut_worm 5y ago
It shouldn’t be much of a surprise. The US government and media have done a great job of making themselves untrustworthy over the years.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
alkonaut 5y ago
The step from ”I probably won’t get vaccinated because I’m worried about side effects” to “the US government is using the vaccine campaign to microchip people” is… absolutely bloody enormous. Yet a majority of those who reject vaccines think the latter statement is true?? This is what surprises me about the US (if it’s true - I’d like to see more numbers). Not that there is a chunk of sceptics but a chunk of lunatics. Even if you account for troll responses you wouldn’t expect that kind of number. If just one in ten that answered yes actually mean it - that’s still terrifying.
- throwaway0a5e 5y ago
  I think it's more likely that a majority of people who reject the corona vaccines feel mildly insulted by the follow up question and decide to give a troll answer.
  - sudosysgen 5y ago
    I'm sure that's part of it. I had to explain to four people that you can't fit a microchip in an mRNA particle or variations if the sort. I'm far from convinced that's the majority.
labrador 5y ago
I have a hard time caring about unvaccinated adults dying because they chose to refuse the Covid vaccine. It's tough on the people who love them and tough on the medical personnel who care for them, but there's nothing I can do about it. I have family who won't get vaccinated and I've told them I'm not coming to their funeral because I need to walk away and set a boundary for my own sanity.
kyrra 5y ago
I read a good opinion on this here: https://www.nationalreview.com/2021/07/convincing-the-skeptics/ https://www.nationalreview.com/2021/07/convincing-the-skepti... There are a lot of factors that you need to take in account when talking about vaccine hesitant people. Some big ones: * Risk: people that don't think they are at risk of catching covid are less likely to get the vaccine. Many people in rural areas don't interact with people as much, and likely feel like they are less likely to catch it. You can also see risk evaluation playing out in other countries that didn't have large early cases of Covid (like Japan), where the fall 2020 wave wasn't too bad, so people weren't as worried. * Trust: There are many that seem to feel squelching discussion that dissents from the CDC guidance is the best way to convince the skeptics. Sadly, those people that are skeptical will see this as more of a reason not to trust the ruling class. Preventing discussion isn't how to fight this fight.
- an_opabinia 5y ago
  > trust the ruling class Where did you get the idea that in this country, rural people aren’t ruling the country? Have you looked at the senate lately?
  - EricE 5y ago
    Yes, equal representation is evil. How dare all Americans expect to have an equal voice!
    - dragonwriter 5y ago
      > Yes, equal representation is evil. No, equal representation is good, but none of the Senate, the Electoral College, or the House of Representatives feature even roughly equal representation. (The largest house district by population is, IIRC, about 1.75× the size of the smallest, with the same representation, and the range of representation ratios in the other two bodies is much larger.)
  - throwaway0a5e 5y ago
    Ugh, this old trope again. Yes, the senate skews congress highly rural. That's the point. It was designed that way. Frankly it works just fine except when electing a president or when doing things at the federal level that should be done at the state level. At the state level, where most of the day to day stuff that affects people's lives is legislated the urban areas in any given state run the show unless the state is very, very, rural. Furthermore, class based distinctions are mostly separate and parallel from urban vs rural ones. Both the hick and the hoodrat know full well their elected representatives, whether they voted for or against them, are nothing like them.
wooque 5y ago
Because it's a stronger flu, and people are not willing to risk experimental medical treatment for that.
dot1x 5y ago
You wanna know why? Check out "The war on sensemaking" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LqaotiGWjQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LqaotiGWjQ
AndrewKemendo 5y ago
It's a bit morbid to think of but this is almost literally natural selection in action: People with the vaccine accepting phenotype are dying at lower rates than the vaccine hesitant phenotype because they have adapted to their environment better. Whether this leads to adaptation in the broader population remains to be seen. My guess is that it won't because most of the people who aren't getting vaccinated and dying are 1. too small in number and 2. Primarily past the age of reproduction anyway.
halfjoking 5y ago
I'll list mine: (as one of the 23% independent who will never get the vaccine) - I already had long covid (lasted 14 months), and don't want the vaccine to cause a relapse. It did exactly that to a family member who also had long covid, and she's still not better. It's just anecdotal but I've seen on longcovid forums multiple people claiming the vaccine CAUSED their longcovid. - I don't believe CDC recommendation that increasing antibody titers through vaccination offers better protection against the virus than convalescent immunity through prior infection. Antibody titers are just one aspect of immunity and BCells make antibodies when exposed to a virus again. Actually I'd be worried about training my immune system with only one part of the virus, it's possible that would hurt my robust immunity against variants, not help it. - CDC is dishonest with numbers by not tracking mild/non-hospitalized breakthrough cases. There is no reason not to track them. From the UK Gov on Page 12... 37 of 73 deaths from Delta variant are vaccinated: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/994839/Variants_of_Concern_VOC_Technical_Briefing_16.pdf https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/... According to the CDC and media such numbers of deaths among vaccinated would be statistically impossible. - FDA not approving an inactive virus vaccine is BS. It's a monumental failure of the US government if they want a high % of people vaccinated to only offer DNA/RNA vaccines that are nothing like traditional vaccines people receive as children. China's Sinopharm works at preventing death and is just inactive virus. If required to take a vaccine I'd travel to another country to take that. Actually I'd even pay $10k to have an inactive virus vaccine imported if it prevented me from being discriminated against. I don't know if the US will ever make a law like France just did, but the corporate media's propaganda is definitely pushing people to support it. - If there was such a thing as "misinformation" then it should be openly mocked, ridiculed and contested with facts. What's happening now with censorship is unprecedented - we even need a dedicated news site to keep track of it: https://reclaimthenet.org/ https://reclaimthenet.org/ . Organizations like the EFF should be presenting legal challenges for many of these things but it seems like everyone has gotten on the "misinformation" bandwagon. Doing that will lead to authoritarianism. Health policy should not be political, but opposing forced medical procedures is a fundamental human right, no exceptions.
sativallday 5y ago
I see it as natural selection.
walkedaway 5y ago
Because we humans have immune systems that have worked since our inception as a species. Common sense.
- timbit42 5y ago
  That explains why no one has died from this virus.
raphlinus 5y ago
This is a good question and deserves serious thought, including real empirical data on what people believe, and TFA provides that. I also recommend more perspective from Ed Yong[1], which is empathetic towards the unvaccinated. But I don't think it's super mysterious. The US is one of the few countries that has a major news network constantly pushing the antivax message (Russia being the other that comes to mind, and that strengthens my point). We also have an erosion of trust in institutions, the media, and authority that goes deeper than in most other places. We also see evidence here on HN: every Covid thread has a significant number of antivax comments. They are also aggressive on Twitter, and even in the chat of TWiV livestreams. There is some reason for optimism though. Very recently, there has been something of a turnaround in right-leaning news sources, where they are now advocating the vaccine. I'm not sure if that will hold up, but in any case I expect it will boost vax numbers considerably, and in the process save many thousands of lives. A deeper question remains: what can we do toward having an information ecosystem that is not so terribly dysfunctional that antivax messages thrive in it? [1]: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/07/unvaccinated-different-anti-vax/619523/ https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/07/unvaccina...
- orloffm 5y ago
  No, in Russia pro-vaccine propaganda is very high, everyone, absolutely everyone, even Navalny's officers are doing it. For the last half a year around 10 minutes in every evening news programme on major channels is about Sputnik V, shaming not vaccinated and so on. There are wonderful documentaries made by RT about hospitals, talking to lead doctors. There are vaccination centers in malls. Russia's low rate of vaccination comes from three things: 1) Lack of incentive. Life was going as usual throughout Winter and Spring - everything was open, no one was enforcing masks. Moscow had the requirement to be vaccinated in order to enter restaurants for a few weeks in June-July, that forced people to go get vaccines. 2) Not many people were dying before Delta, so everyone thought it was fading away. And combined with the iron curtain situation between vaccines (Sputnik V not approved in EU and P/M/J&J/AZ not approved in Russia), people thought there was going to be some development, maybe new vaccines, and that it's worth waiting a bit. 3) Many people didn't trust some dying corrupt company to be able to make millions of doses out of nowhere and for it to be effective. It was just too suspicious to be true. But eventually Sputnik proved to work, so this went away.
drivingmenuts 5y ago
I’m at the point of not caring anymore. If you don’t want to get vaccinated, fine by me. When you’re dying in a hospital somewhere, complain to someone who cares, because it won’t be me. If you won’t get vaccinated, you’re a write-off.
- throwaway56452 5y ago
  Finally, thank you. That's all we've ever wanted you to say. But I have no doubt you're going to be back at the whole "caring" thing soon enough.
fettucini 5y ago
b/c many no longer trust authority. After all who, through the Covid-19 panic, has maintained their integrity? FBI, CIA, NSA, CDC, DHS, NIH, governor Cuomo, universities, doctors, lawyers, presidents, and all governmental spokesmen have been revealed for what they are: politicians. And you know that old joke: Q. How do you know when a politician is lying? A. His lips are moving.
djkivi 5y ago
He did get it, but didn't Biden initially question whether these vaccines would be safe? https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/biden-trump-coronavirus-vaccine/2020/09/16/2ffbea6a-f831-11ea-a275-1a2c2d36e1f1_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/biden-trump-coronavi...
- TMWNN 5y ago
  Biden, Harris, and Pelosi all said they won't trust any Trump vaccine. (<https://www.newsweek.com/anti-vaccine-covid-trust-skepticism-democrat-politicization-1535559 https://www.newsweek.com/anti-vaccine-covid-trust-skepticism...>)
throwaway56452 5y ago
Throwaway. I'm going to get a few things off my chest. People in this thread are the problem. You're talking about this or that piece of specific "mis-information" as the reason someone didn't get vaccinated. Wake up. You really think if only you could control the messaging better, then the monkeys would do as they're told. You're just another authoritarian elitist, like the rest. Oh masks don't work (except they do, we just couldn't tell you the truth). Oh you're racist it didn't leak from China (except it probably did, and they knew then). Oh these vaccines are safe (except 50K people have died from them). You call us anti-vaxxers. No, we're against this vaccine, mostly. And yes, we get some of it wrong sometimes, but we've gotten a lot right too. What you've ignored, or called "misinformation". Everyone read the American Frontline Doctor's filing 3 days ago that spells out what we've been talking about for a long time. https://archive.org/details/15-main/page/n1/mode/2up https://archive.org/details/15-main/page/n1/mode/2up When is the CDC going to acknowledge Ivermectin? In a recent Dr. John Cambell video, who I mostly like even when I disagree, because he's honest, he said the real-politic of the situation means we can't expect our health authorities even mention it. Sorry, but that's not going to fly. I consider myself still a patriot. But I've watched the government and media lie about WMD in Iraq, NSA spying, Trump nonstop, the peaceful riots, about the questionable election, about funding gain of function, and been called racist, sexist, and every other name by so-called leaders. I've watched the principles of our nation get thrown away. https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1413165168956088321.html https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1413165168956088321.html So this is where I'm at. I won't live in your cities. I won't take your advice. I won't trust your reporting. I won't ever give up my arms. You, our institutions, leaders, and other so-called Americans, have soiled our great nation. And what comes next nobody knows, but there is no path back now, only forward.
RickJWagner 5y ago
Not long ago, we had apologists explaining why it's impossible for some portions of the population to get government ids for voter verification. The same argument isn't used to excuse people who won't vaccinate. Don't get me wrong-- I am completely in favor of vaccination, and completely in favor of government ids for all vital functions.
GaryTang 5y ago
Why are Americans more likely to get vaccinated than most other nationalities?

50 points by cpncrunch 5y ago

The underlying data [1] is 250 pages of lots more questions. It also has other breakdowns that folks might find interesting. [1] https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/w2zmwpzsq0/econTabReport.pdf https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/w2zmwpzsq0/econTabReport.pdf

Symmetry 5y ago
Interesting but I wish they'd included some questions that get to the root of the questions I have about why so many people don't want the vaccine. Things like Did you hear about the suspension of the J&J vaccine? Did you hear that the suspension of the J&J vaccine had been lifted? If the FDA were to grant regular authorization for use of a Covid vaccine how likely would you be to take it? And so forth.
fieryscribe 5y ago
Thanks for sharing. One thing caught my eye in that report. It says that 57% of Black and 61% of Hispanic respondents claim to have been fully vaccinated. The totals across 40 states in the US are 36% and 41% respectively [1]: > Less than half of Black and Hispanic people have received at least one COVID-19 vaccine dose in nearly all states reporting data, including a number of states where less than a third have received a vaccine I'm aware that polls have a skew, but I can't figure out how those numbers are so different, especially since the latter numbers are about people who have received at least one dose, not the full dose. [1] https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/issue-brief/latest-data-on-covid-19-vaccinations-race-ethnicity/ https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/issue-brief/latest-...

98Windows 5y ago

>One in five Americans believes the US government is using the COVID-19 vaccine to microchip the population lol america is fuk

alea_iacta_est 5y ago

Garbage article. Lie: > Vaccine rejection is higher among whites than it is among black and Hispanic Americans The data: https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#vaccination-demographic https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#vaccination-demogr...

raphlinus 5y ago
These are two different things. The fact that Black and Hispanic Americans are not getting the vaccine is more due to access than it is to vaccine rejection. See https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-biggest-barriers-to-covid-vaccination-for-black-and-latinx-people1/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-biggest-barri... for a more detailed discussion. Also observe in Figure 4 of https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/issue-brief/latest-data-on-covid-19-vaccinations-race-ethnicity/ https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/issue-brief/latest-... that while the percentage of whites that have gotten vaccinated his higher than Black and Hispanic groups, the slope of the curve is higher in the latter cases - if trends continue, the lines will cross, just as Canada has exceeded the US vaccination rate, and possibly for similar reasons.
- jsight 5y ago
  I don't see how that could be true. The Wal-Marts here offer free vaccines for anyone. We seem to be past the point where availability should be a significant hindrance.
  - bigbillheck 5y ago
    What happens when you get the usual reactions to the second shot (knocked low for a couple days) and you lose your job because you can't come in? EDIT: I'm eating the downvotes on this one, but it's an actual excuse I've seen reported in the wild. Even if they don't lose their job, many people are living very close to the edge and the loss of a couple days salary is a big deal. I personally was unable to really work for a day and a half, and couldn't have driven myself there (or back) anyway. I'm very lucky in that I work from home and have plenty of paid sick leave, but that's not a situation experienced by lots of people.

aww_dang 5y ago

A more interesting question would be, "Why does the US have such low confidence in the media institutions ceaselessly promoting vaccination?"

LimaBearz 5y ago
I don’t have cable so I’m sorry but can you explain that to me? The only thing I’ve seen a lot of is personalities or people whose others might respect come out and verbally push for it, I haven’t seen anyone carelessly promoting it, it’s quite safe to take. A lot of questions I’ve seen asked, have been asked and answered. Those that chose not take the vaccine seem to be suffering from seeing only what they want to be seeing, no? What exactly is “carelessly promoting” mean in this context. Edit: ah OP edited his post, s/carelessly/ceaselessly/
- aww_dang 5y ago
  https://www.lexico.com/definition/ceaselessly https://www.lexico.com/definition/ceaselessly ADVERB Continuously and without end. ‘a former policeman who has campaigned ceaselessly on his daughter's behalf’
pjc50 5y ago
Well, half the media has spent years systematically destroying trust in government as a concept, so it's perhaps not surprising?
- JohnWhigham 5y ago
  destroying trust in government as a concept I despise all mainstream media, but if there's any one entity to chiefly blame for that, it's the federal government itself.
  - toomuchtodo 5y ago
    If you live your life as an American citizen or resident, you have the federal government to blame for the exceptionally high quality of life you lead. Perhaps it's because I'm informed and educated, but besides the DoD, I have nothing but good things to say about the current state of the executive and judicial branches, as well as federal agencies. For a taste of the alternative, book airfare to Haiti, Somalia, or Venezuela.

underseacables 5y ago

My opinion is that a lot of Americans are uneasy about government, pharmaceutical, and the media, all pushing the same narrative over a virus that has a 99% survival rate. After decades of pushing drugs on us, and using the government to mandate vaccines like HPV, regardless of effectiveness, and the media manipulating us at every turn, trust in these institutions is less than rock bottom. If Americans are not getting vaccinated it’s not the citizens fault, its these institutions that suddenly want us to trust them. Personally I’m waiting as long as possible, let everyone else do the beta testing. Edit: I have had Covid as-well as everyone in my family.

alisonkisk 5y ago
why aren't people boycotting insulin or lipitor from big pharma? 1% death rate is pretty bad for a single disease everyone is going to get eventually. And the hospitalization rate is much higher than 1%
- underseacables 5y ago
  Surely you jest. Insulin and Lipitor have been studied for decades, both for safety and efficacy. Both are proven life-saving drugs. But I’ll take your point seriously: perhaps in a few years when more studies have been done to show the same efficacy and safety for the vaccine, people might begin to trust it more.
  - pjc50 5y ago
    > in a few years Too late.
- muttantt 5y ago
  They should, especially because fixing type 2 diabetes and high cholesterol is a relatively easy with proper nutrition in just a few weeks.
  - giardini 5y ago
    muttantt says >"fixing type 2 diabetes and high cholesterol is a relatively easy with proper nutrition in just a few weeks."< Leaving "high cholesterol" aside, everything I've read and seen indicates that "fixing type 2 diabetes" is extremely difficult, takes months to years rather than weeks, and is especially difficult to maintain. One of my friends is yo-yoing his weight right now (e.g., down 50 lbs, up 25, down 5,...) in an attempt to cease insulin. I had no idea someone's weight could vary so quickly. His daughter polices his diet carefully, he hides candy bars and other goodies, it's an amazing struggle. Can you cite any studies that clearly state it is "relatively easy to fix type 2 diabetes"? "

stalfosknight 5y ago

Because vast amounts of the general public are tremendously stupid and/or superstitious.

user743 5y ago
Spoken like a true complicity theorist.

yardie 5y ago

I got the vaccine and a lot of my coworkers have not. I made the mistake of telling them the results. It was 2x 3-days of me bitching and moaning about a sore arm and just feeling aches while the innoculation worked its magic. Since TFG convinced a lot of Americans the virus is no worse than a light flu somehow my achy arm is way worse than any flu. So now the vaccine is not worth taking because those 6 total days of achiness are worse than being in ICU. It's that fucking dumb. In hindsight I should have kept my mouth shut and said everything was fine.

Grim-444 5y ago
35 million people in the US have tested positive with Covid. Additional millions likely had it and weren't tested. What percentage of those tens of millions that caught Covid do you believe would up in the ICU versus having light flu symptoms, or no symptoms at all?
- an_opabinia 5y ago
  People are downvoting you because you’re saying something in bad faith, knowing full well you can just punch into Google and go down this specific thread of argument all you want. But to keep this on topic, being on the “don’t deal with it” side of a public health crisis is a great example of the limits of contrarianism - it’s always bad faith to be a contrarian in that context, but not all contexts. So you do you!
  - EricE 5y ago
    Why are you assuming he's saying it in bad faith? How is pointing out actual facts being a contrarian? Indeed, contrarian to what, exactly?
    - walkedaway 5y ago
      Telling that you're being downvoted by HN community for asking a legitimate question.
- 5y ago

airza 5y ago

9% of people think the government is using the vaccine to microchip the population... but got it anyway? Huh?

TigeriusKirk 5y ago
Probably the Lizardman Constant. https://slatestarcodex.com/2013/04/12/noisy-poll-results-and-reptilian-muslim-climatologists-from-mars/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2013/04/12/noisy-poll-results-and...
throwaway0a5e 5y ago
If you told me one in ten people thinks the vaccine is a microchip I wouldn't believe you. If you told me that one in ten people would troll someone conducting a survey I would be surprised the number is that low.
- seattle_spring 5y ago
  > If you told me one in ten people thinks the vaccine is a microchip I wouldn't believe you I would. I live out in the country and the people in my area believe some absolutely bonkers stuff.
arsome 5y ago
To be fair, I'd tell a survey company that too, because it's fucking hilarious.
ReptileMan 5y ago
A lot of them are trolling. I will give such stupid answer just for the lolz
throwslackforce 5y ago
The chart does indicate 9% of fully vaccinated people believe that the vaccine microchips the population, with another 9% not sure. I wish they'd done a follow-up question where they asked that 9% "do you think your vaccine contained microchips" to see if the answers were logically consistent.

api 5y ago

Americans won't get vaccinated because there were no WMDs in Iraq. There's lots more examples like that, but that's a big one and is illustrative.

throwaway0a5e 5y ago
An entire generation has grown up since then. I think WMDs 17yr ago is a lot less less influential in terms of media distrust than a year ago when they were proclaiming there was no/negligible chance of a lab leak and then spent early 2021 trying to simultaneously walk that back with the weakest possible admission that mistakes were made and simultaneously making an equally strong claim that the vaccine is effective and safe. Frankly I'm surprised that the percentage of the population who isn't vaccinated is as low as it is.

ReptileMan 5y ago

Because the vaccine message was completely wrong? For starters COVID 19 is relatively benign compared to the other stuff you vaccinate against. And unlike the other vaccines which were marketed as - I don't want to get polio/my kids to get polio, this was done as moral duty which is to protect others - which not as much people buy in. Throw in the speedy approval process, the Astra Zenecca feud with Brussels, the media being media with side effects stories and the constant annoying moralizing preaching of the very online crowd, the fact that vaccine is still no reason to ditch the masks - and it is no wonder that hesitancy is so strong. Got jabbed with Pfizer in February - I don't think it was worth it. I am still forced to wear masks even though there is just no good evidence that vaccinated people could be infectious at any rates comparable to unvaccinated.

EricE 5y ago
No kidding. Also I'm not surprised you are being downvoted despite making some very valid points. I couldn't believe one of the first nurses they vaccinated at the beginning of the rollout was one prone to fainting - who then fainted. SERIOUSLY? If they wanted to instill confidence that's NOT the way to do it. It's like they were trying to sow division from the start. And then they wonder why people are distrustful? Changing medical "facts" based on the politics of the moment hasn't done any of the "experts" any favors - from no mask, to masks, to double/triple the masks (freaking clown show, that one) now masks even if you have had it/get the jab (absolutely NO medial basis for that policy) - it's just nuts. If you want to have a really good time, just look up dear Dr. Fauci and his handling of AIDS in the 80's and SARS in the 90's. How that man still holds the position he does is simply mind boggling. He's less reliable than the local weather forecaster and at least they have a good reason for their accuracy and won't kill people based on being moronically wrong. When you look at how he downplayed AIDS when it was well known he was flat out wrong; how many hundreds of thousands died (especially in the gay community) that didn't have to? On balance vaccines are a slam dunk positive; I'm certainly NOT an anti-vaxxer (just got my shingles vaccine - shingles are nasty; don't fool around!). I'm just not in a hurry for the COVID vaccines when I don't have to be - especially when it's still under emergency approval. Heck there are still studies narrowing down the optimal dose size - the smaller you can make it while still being effective greatly diminishes the side effects and it could be as much as half of what they are currently doing according to more than one recent study I have seen. That's a huge difference! I have had allergic reactions in the past so yeah, I have zero problem waiting a bit until more of this stuff gets refined. That's hardly a nutter/denier position, yet there seems to be zero room for nuance in public discourse these days. It's either you are part of the heard/groupthink or you are worse than a nazi, non-human and subject to immediate purge from the planet :p

Rd6n6 5y ago

Most Americans are getting vaccinated. This title makes it seem like most are not Edit: “almost all” changed to “most”

colinmhayes 5y ago
68% of adults is not what I would call almost all. That number has barely budged in months so it seems there is a good 30% of Americans who will not get vaccinated.
- h2odragon 5y ago
  Does the number of people infected and recovered figure in anywhere? natural antibodies are likely to be better, imo.
  - ryathal 5y ago
    That number matters for herd immunity, but it's basically unknowable, it's likely that puts the US above 70%.
  - volker48 5y ago
    Seems like vaccine antibodies target a broader range of variants https://directorsblog.nih.gov/2021/06/22/how-immunity-generated-from-covid-19-vaccines-differs-from-an-infection/ https://directorsblog.nih.gov/2021/06/22/how-immunity-genera... Antibody titers are higher from vaccines as well. "After the second dose of the vaccine, antibody titers were up to 10 times higher than those of patients who had recovered from natural COVID-19 infection, suggesting that even those with prior exposure could benefit from vaccination." https://www.contagionlive.com/view/immune-response-from-mrna-covid-19-vaccines-is-more-robust-than-natural-infection https://www.contagionlive.com/view/immune-response-from-mrna...

TigeriusKirk 5y ago

As a thought experiment, what if we called it the "Trump Vaccine" would that caused a large chunk of the unvaccinated to change their minds? How many lives would it save? Would we be willing to do that?

GuB-42 5y ago
I'm sure some democrats will refuse the vaccine out of spite. I actually know people who don't want to get vaccinated out of spite. A change in the ad campaign could work, appeal to republican values but without alienating democrats in the process
- J5892 5y ago
  Just rebrand it and make the Trump/Freedom version an option. Others can just get the normal one.
CodeGlitch 5y ago
You're not thinking American enough: "Freedom Vaccine". Get a free stars and Stripes flag with every injection.
TMWNN 5y ago
As a thought experiment, what if we called it the "Trump Vaccine" would that caused a large chunk of the unvaccinated to change their minds? Conversely, using that name would have caused many others to not want it. Biden, Harris, and Pelosi all said they won't trust any Trump vaccine. (<https://www.newsweek.com/anti-vaccine-covid-trust-skepticism-democrat-politicization-1535559 https://www.newsweek.com/anti-vaccine-covid-trust-skepticism...>)

peanut_worm 5y ago

It shouldn’t be much of a surprise. The US government and media have done a great job of making themselves untrustworthy over the years.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

alkonaut 5y ago

The step from ”I probably won’t get vaccinated because I’m worried about side effects” to “the US government is using the vaccine campaign to microchip people” is… absolutely bloody enormous. Yet a majority of those who reject vaccines think the latter statement is true?? This is what surprises me about the US (if it’s true - I’d like to see more numbers). Not that there is a chunk of sceptics but a chunk of lunatics. Even if you account for troll responses you wouldn’t expect that kind of number. If just one in ten that answered yes actually mean it - that’s still terrifying.

throwaway0a5e 5y ago
I think it's more likely that a majority of people who reject the corona vaccines feel mildly insulted by the follow up question and decide to give a troll answer.
- sudosysgen 5y ago
  I'm sure that's part of it. I had to explain to four people that you can't fit a microchip in an mRNA particle or variations if the sort. I'm far from convinced that's the majority.

labrador 5y ago

I have a hard time caring about unvaccinated adults dying because they chose to refuse the Covid vaccine. It's tough on the people who love them and tough on the medical personnel who care for them, but there's nothing I can do about it. I have family who won't get vaccinated and I've told them I'm not coming to their funeral because I need to walk away and set a boundary for my own sanity.

kyrra 5y ago

I read a good opinion on this here: https://www.nationalreview.com/2021/07/convincing-the-skeptics/ https://www.nationalreview.com/2021/07/convincing-the-skepti... There are a lot of factors that you need to take in account when talking about vaccine hesitant people. Some big ones: * Risk: people that don't think they are at risk of catching covid are less likely to get the vaccine. Many people in rural areas don't interact with people as much, and likely feel like they are less likely to catch it. You can also see risk evaluation playing out in other countries that didn't have large early cases of Covid (like Japan), where the fall 2020 wave wasn't too bad, so people weren't as worried. * Trust: There are many that seem to feel squelching discussion that dissents from the CDC guidance is the best way to convince the skeptics. Sadly, those people that are skeptical will see this as more of a reason not to trust the ruling class. Preventing discussion isn't how to fight this fight.

an_opabinia 5y ago
> trust the ruling class Where did you get the idea that in this country, rural people aren’t ruling the country? Have you looked at the senate lately?
- EricE 5y ago
  Yes, equal representation is evil. How dare all Americans expect to have an equal voice!
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > Yes, equal representation is evil. No, equal representation is good, but none of the Senate, the Electoral College, or the House of Representatives feature even roughly equal representation. (The largest house district by population is, IIRC, about 1.75× the size of the smallest, with the same representation, and the range of representation ratios in the other two bodies is much larger.)
- throwaway0a5e 5y ago
  Ugh, this old trope again. Yes, the senate skews congress highly rural. That's the point. It was designed that way. Frankly it works just fine except when electing a president or when doing things at the federal level that should be done at the state level. At the state level, where most of the day to day stuff that affects people's lives is legislated the urban areas in any given state run the show unless the state is very, very, rural. Furthermore, class based distinctions are mostly separate and parallel from urban vs rural ones. Both the hick and the hoodrat know full well their elected representatives, whether they voted for or against them, are nothing like them.

wooque 5y ago

Because it's a stronger flu, and people are not willing to risk experimental medical treatment for that.

dot1x 5y ago

You wanna know why? Check out "The war on sensemaking" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LqaotiGWjQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LqaotiGWjQ

AndrewKemendo 5y ago

It's a bit morbid to think of but this is almost literally natural selection in action: People with the vaccine accepting phenotype are dying at lower rates than the vaccine hesitant phenotype because they have adapted to their environment better. Whether this leads to adaptation in the broader population remains to be seen. My guess is that it won't because most of the people who aren't getting vaccinated and dying are 1. too small in number and 2. Primarily past the age of reproduction anyway.

halfjoking 5y ago

I'll list mine: (as one of the 23% independent who will never get the vaccine) - I already had long covid (lasted 14 months), and don't want the vaccine to cause a relapse. It did exactly that to a family member who also had long covid, and she's still not better. It's just anecdotal but I've seen on longcovid forums multiple people claiming the vaccine CAUSED their longcovid. - I don't believe CDC recommendation that increasing antibody titers through vaccination offers better protection against the virus than convalescent immunity through prior infection. Antibody titers are just one aspect of immunity and BCells make antibodies when exposed to a virus again. Actually I'd be worried about training my immune system with only one part of the virus, it's possible that would hurt my robust immunity against variants, not help it. - CDC is dishonest with numbers by not tracking mild/non-hospitalized breakthrough cases. There is no reason not to track them. From the UK Gov on Page 12... 37 of 73 deaths from Delta variant are vaccinated: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/994839/Variants_of_Concern_VOC_Technical_Briefing_16.pdf https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/... According to the CDC and media such numbers of deaths among vaccinated would be statistically impossible. - FDA not approving an inactive virus vaccine is BS. It's a monumental failure of the US government if they want a high % of people vaccinated to only offer DNA/RNA vaccines that are nothing like traditional vaccines people receive as children. China's Sinopharm works at preventing death and is just inactive virus. If required to take a vaccine I'd travel to another country to take that. Actually I'd even pay $10k to have an inactive virus vaccine imported if it prevented me from being discriminated against. I don't know if the US will ever make a law like France just did, but the corporate media's propaganda is definitely pushing people to support it. - If there was such a thing as "misinformation" then it should be openly mocked, ridiculed and contested with facts. What's happening now with censorship is unprecedented - we even need a dedicated news site to keep track of it: https://reclaimthenet.org/ https://reclaimthenet.org/ . Organizations like the EFF should be presenting legal challenges for many of these things but it seems like everyone has gotten on the "misinformation" bandwagon. Doing that will lead to authoritarianism. Health policy should not be political, but opposing forced medical procedures is a fundamental human right, no exceptions.

sativallday 5y ago

I see it as natural selection.

walkedaway 5y ago

Because we humans have immune systems that have worked since our inception as a species. Common sense.

timbit42 5y ago
That explains why no one has died from this virus.

raphlinus 5y ago

This is a good question and deserves serious thought, including real empirical data on what people believe, and TFA provides that. I also recommend more perspective from Ed Yong[1], which is empathetic towards the unvaccinated. But I don't think it's super mysterious. The US is one of the few countries that has a major news network constantly pushing the antivax message (Russia being the other that comes to mind, and that strengthens my point). We also have an erosion of trust in institutions, the media, and authority that goes deeper than in most other places. We also see evidence here on HN: every Covid thread has a significant number of antivax comments. They are also aggressive on Twitter, and even in the chat of TWiV livestreams. There is some reason for optimism though. Very recently, there has been something of a turnaround in right-leaning news sources, where they are now advocating the vaccine. I'm not sure if that will hold up, but in any case I expect it will boost vax numbers considerably, and in the process save many thousands of lives. A deeper question remains: what can we do toward having an information ecosystem that is not so terribly dysfunctional that antivax messages thrive in it? [1]: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/07/unvaccinated-different-anti-vax/619523/ https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/07/unvaccina...

orloffm 5y ago
No, in Russia pro-vaccine propaganda is very high, everyone, absolutely everyone, even Navalny's officers are doing it. For the last half a year around 10 minutes in every evening news programme on major channels is about Sputnik V, shaming not vaccinated and so on. There are wonderful documentaries made by RT about hospitals, talking to lead doctors. There are vaccination centers in malls. Russia's low rate of vaccination comes from three things: 1) Lack of incentive. Life was going as usual throughout Winter and Spring - everything was open, no one was enforcing masks. Moscow had the requirement to be vaccinated in order to enter restaurants for a few weeks in June-July, that forced people to go get vaccines. 2) Not many people were dying before Delta, so everyone thought it was fading away. And combined with the iron curtain situation between vaccines (Sputnik V not approved in EU and P/M/J&J/AZ not approved in Russia), people thought there was going to be some development, maybe new vaccines, and that it's worth waiting a bit. 3) Many people didn't trust some dying corrupt company to be able to make millions of doses out of nowhere and for it to be effective. It was just too suspicious to be true. But eventually Sputnik proved to work, so this went away.

drivingmenuts 5y ago

I’m at the point of not caring anymore. If you don’t want to get vaccinated, fine by me. When you’re dying in a hospital somewhere, complain to someone who cares, because it won’t be me. If you won’t get vaccinated, you’re a write-off.

throwaway56452 5y ago
Finally, thank you. That's all we've ever wanted you to say. But I have no doubt you're going to be back at the whole "caring" thing soon enough.

fettucini 5y ago

b/c many no longer trust authority. After all who, through the Covid-19 panic, has maintained their integrity? FBI, CIA, NSA, CDC, DHS, NIH, governor Cuomo, universities, doctors, lawyers, presidents, and all governmental spokesmen have been revealed for what they are: politicians. And you know that old joke: Q. How do you know when a politician is lying? A. His lips are moving.

djkivi 5y ago

He did get it, but didn't Biden initially question whether these vaccines would be safe? https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/biden-trump-coronavirus-vaccine/2020/09/16/2ffbea6a-f831-11ea-a275-1a2c2d36e1f1_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/biden-trump-coronavi...

TMWNN 5y ago
Biden, Harris, and Pelosi all said they won't trust any Trump vaccine. (<https://www.newsweek.com/anti-vaccine-covid-trust-skepticism-democrat-politicization-1535559 https://www.newsweek.com/anti-vaccine-covid-trust-skepticism...>)

throwaway56452 5y ago

Throwaway. I'm going to get a few things off my chest. People in this thread are the problem. You're talking about this or that piece of specific "mis-information" as the reason someone didn't get vaccinated. Wake up. You really think if only you could control the messaging better, then the monkeys would do as they're told. You're just another authoritarian elitist, like the rest. Oh masks don't work (except they do, we just couldn't tell you the truth). Oh you're racist it didn't leak from China (except it probably did, and they knew then). Oh these vaccines are safe (except 50K people have died from them). You call us anti-vaxxers. No, we're against this vaccine, mostly. And yes, we get some of it wrong sometimes, but we've gotten a lot right too. What you've ignored, or called "misinformation". Everyone read the American Frontline Doctor's filing 3 days ago that spells out what we've been talking about for a long time. https://archive.org/details/15-main/page/n1/mode/2up https://archive.org/details/15-main/page/n1/mode/2up When is the CDC going to acknowledge Ivermectin? In a recent Dr. John Cambell video, who I mostly like even when I disagree, because he's honest, he said the real-politic of the situation means we can't expect our health authorities even mention it. Sorry, but that's not going to fly. I consider myself still a patriot. But I've watched the government and media lie about WMD in Iraq, NSA spying, Trump nonstop, the peaceful riots, about the questionable election, about funding gain of function, and been called racist, sexist, and every other name by so-called leaders. I've watched the principles of our nation get thrown away. https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1413165168956088321.html https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1413165168956088321.html So this is where I'm at. I won't live in your cities. I won't take your advice. I won't trust your reporting. I won't ever give up my arms. You, our institutions, leaders, and other so-called Americans, have soiled our great nation. And what comes next nobody knows, but there is no path back now, only forward.

RickJWagner 5y ago

Not long ago, we had apologists explaining why it's impossible for some portions of the population to get government ids for voter verification. The same argument isn't used to excuse people who won't vaccinate. Don't get me wrong-- I am completely in favor of vaccination, and completely in favor of government ids for all vital functions.

GaryTang 5y ago

Why are Americans more likely to get vaccinated than most other nationalities?