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If you set up Gmail on your phone you’re not being advertised to at all when you check your mail. It seems hard to imagine any way providing that service for fr

If you set up Gmail on your phone you’re not being advertised to at all when you check your mail. It seems hard to imagine any way providing that service for free would be worth their while if they couldn’t harvest the data.

marcosdumay 5y ago
> If you set up Gmail on your phone you’re not being advertised to at all when you check your mail. Well, that's Google's choice, and Google's problem. The fact that they made this choice does not negate my right not to be tracked. Anyway, if free email providers were impossible without universal tracking (they existed before the web got extensive tracking, so you are wrong), they shouldn't exist. If you want emails for all, and it's not economical, you can always have your government to intervene.
- emodendroket 5y ago
  Well your claim is a lot more expansive, really, because you’re saying that I have no right to sign up for the service myself because you don’t like the business model. There are some things that are so harmful that that makes sense but I don’t agree that Gmail and Facebook being in that category.
  - JohnFen 5y ago
    > I don’t agree that Gmail and Facebook being in that category. In my opinion, Facebook is unequivocally harmful to society at large. I don't think GMail is unequivocally harmful, although the fact that people can use gmail addresses that don't look like gmail addresses is a problem for those of us who really try to never send email to gmail addresses in order to keep our data out of Google's realm.
  - marcosdumay 5y ago
    There's a reason the constitution of my country grants me a right to privacy... And before anybody claims that it only restricts the government (it doesn't, it tasks the government into guaranteeing it), we have enough evidence that this kind of business model will be exploited to create an all encompassing gatekeeper for our society's communication, and at this point those companies are really paragovernamental entities, what no country should allow to exist.
Scarblac 5y ago
If it's an Android phone, then Gmail came with the phone, that I paid for. I have no idea what the manufacturer paid Google, but I paid.
- emodendroket 5y ago
  OK but it works on my iPad, my iPhone, Thunderbird or Outlook on a PC, etc., and what you’re saying does not apply to any of those.
hobs 5y ago
It's pretty simple - if its not profitable to run a service without spying on your users then it should simply not be run. That's it!
- emodendroket 5y ago
  I disagree because I’d like to keep using the service.
- Cederfjard 5y ago
  OK, that’s how you feel, and your choice. What do you think about people who wouldn’t mind being spied on in exchange for free or cheaper services? I’m personally with you, by the way, but I think it’s worth pointing out that it’s not the only valid position.
  - hobs 5y ago
    It's not the only valid position, its just the only position that doesn't allow giant corporations to use their power to coerce people with no money to give up their agency.
    - emodendroket 5y ago
      They can probably find other ways.
  - darkwater 5y ago
    > What do you think about people who wouldn’t mind being spied on in exchange for free or cheaper services? I would really like to know how many people are actually like this, if they knew the full, total picture. There will be a lot, that's sure, but maybe not the overwhelming majority of uninformed people we have now.
    - emodendroket 5y ago
      By and large Snowden's revelations were met with a shrug. If that didn't bother people much, why would details about how Google makes money?
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
tendstofortytwo 5y ago
I do see advertisements on the Gmail mobile app though. They're never in the primary view, but the automatic categorizations (Promotions, Social, Updates) generally have them.
- emodendroket 5y ago
  The point is that it supports IMAP and POP3.

marcosdumay 5y ago

> If you set up Gmail on your phone you’re not being advertised to at all when you check your mail. Well, that's Google's choice, and Google's problem. The fact that they made this choice does not negate my right not to be tracked. Anyway, if free email providers were impossible without universal tracking (they existed before the web got extensive tracking, so you are wrong), they shouldn't exist. If you want emails for all, and it's not economical, you can always have your government to intervene.

emodendroket 5y ago
Well your claim is a lot more expansive, really, because you’re saying that I have no right to sign up for the service myself because you don’t like the business model. There are some things that are so harmful that that makes sense but I don’t agree that Gmail and Facebook being in that category.
- JohnFen 5y ago
  > I don’t agree that Gmail and Facebook being in that category. In my opinion, Facebook is unequivocally harmful to society at large. I don't think GMail is unequivocally harmful, although the fact that people can use gmail addresses that don't look like gmail addresses is a problem for those of us who really try to never send email to gmail addresses in order to keep our data out of Google's realm.
- marcosdumay 5y ago
  There's a reason the constitution of my country grants me a right to privacy... And before anybody claims that it only restricts the government (it doesn't, it tasks the government into guaranteeing it), we have enough evidence that this kind of business model will be exploited to create an all encompassing gatekeeper for our society's communication, and at this point those companies are really paragovernamental entities, what no country should allow to exist.

Scarblac 5y ago

If it's an Android phone, then Gmail came with the phone, that I paid for. I have no idea what the manufacturer paid Google, but I paid.

emodendroket 5y ago
OK but it works on my iPad, my iPhone, Thunderbird or Outlook on a PC, etc., and what you’re saying does not apply to any of those.

hobs 5y ago

It's pretty simple - if its not profitable to run a service without spying on your users then it should simply not be run. That's it!

emodendroket 5y ago
I disagree because I’d like to keep using the service.
Cederfjard 5y ago
OK, that’s how you feel, and your choice. What do you think about people who wouldn’t mind being spied on in exchange for free or cheaper services? I’m personally with you, by the way, but I think it’s worth pointing out that it’s not the only valid position.
- hobs 5y ago
  It's not the only valid position, its just the only position that doesn't allow giant corporations to use their power to coerce people with no money to give up their agency.
  - emodendroket 5y ago
    They can probably find other ways.
- darkwater 5y ago
  > What do you think about people who wouldn’t mind being spied on in exchange for free or cheaper services? I would really like to know how many people are actually like this, if they knew the full, total picture. There will be a lot, that's sure, but maybe not the overwhelming majority of uninformed people we have now.
  - emodendroket 5y ago
    By and large Snowden's revelations were met with a shrug. If that didn't bother people much, why would details about how Google makes money?

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

tendstofortytwo 5y ago

I do see advertisements on the Gmail mobile app though. They're never in the primary view, but the automatic categorizations (Promotions, Social, Updates) generally have them.

emodendroket 5y ago
The point is that it supports IMAP and POP3.