4 ms·

You don't have to do those for day to day living, attending school, getting on a plane, most employment, entering a grocery store, a pub or daycare for your kid

You don't have to do those for day to day living, attending school, getting on a plane, most employment, entering a grocery store, a pub or daycare for your kid. These will have to be scanned to work and will be able to be turned off. USA seems to be slow rolling towards it but look at France and UK just this week. Life ending fines, 6 month jail time if you enter one of these places without it. No exemptions for those that aquired natural immunity either.

mindslight 5y ago
Three of your own examples (day to day living, attending school, most employment) actually do require subjecting yourself to control by the systems I listed. Furthermore, all of the examples you listed make you subject to observation. The only way to be able to escape this is to be independently wealthy, which with the way our economy is designed is only ever possible for a minority of people. I agree that vaccine requirements are part of ever-creeping totalitarian control, regardless of apparent prudence, but to frame it as some sort of not-yet-here watershed moment is either uninformed or disingenuous.
- swader999 5y ago
  Creeping totalitarian control is a decent way to describe this.
sofixa 5y ago
> ut look at France and UK just this week. Life ending fines, 6 month jail time if you enter one of these places without it. No exemptions for those that aquired natural immunity either You are wrong, you need a valid digital certificate which can come from 1) two doses and 14 days; 2) negative PCR less than 73hrs; 3) certificate you had covid (in some cases a vaccine dose is required on top). Considering people have had Covid multiple times, a generic exemption for them might be too broad.
- swader999 5y ago
  Thanks for the details. The idea that you have to have your pass scanned to enter all these venues is still insane.
  - mindslight 5y ago
    The idea that you should expect to be searched to enter concerts and sporting events is more insane. And yet that's just been the new normal for the past 15 years. The biggest issue is whether businesses can use your personal information for purposes other than checking vaccination status. Some of the European systems I've read about seem to discourage that, and the GDPR would also seem to prohibit it. But there's no willpower for such laws in the US, so we'd inevitably end up with the synergy of government and corporate power, like everything else. For instance, half the surveillance systems I listed in my other comment rely on abusing government-mandated identifiers.
    - raxxorrax 5y ago
      Yeah, but that new normal isn't really desirable in itself...
      - mindslight 5y ago
        I never said that it was, which was apparent from my characterization of "insane". I was merely pointing out that framing vaccination requirements as some sort of watershed totalitarianism is ridiculous. We get far less specific benefit from other intrusions. For example, spending the political energy putting surveillance valley out of business would go much further for freedom's sake.

mindslight 5y ago

Three of your own examples (day to day living, attending school, most employment) actually do require subjecting yourself to control by the systems I listed. Furthermore, all of the examples you listed make you subject to observation. The only way to be able to escape this is to be independently wealthy, which with the way our economy is designed is only ever possible for a minority of people. I agree that vaccine requirements are part of ever-creeping totalitarian control, regardless of apparent prudence, but to frame it as some sort of not-yet-here watershed moment is either uninformed or disingenuous.

swader999 5y ago
Creeping totalitarian control is a decent way to describe this.

sofixa 5y ago

> ut look at France and UK just this week. Life ending fines, 6 month jail time if you enter one of these places without it. No exemptions for those that aquired natural immunity either You are wrong, you need a valid digital certificate which can come from 1) two doses and 14 days; 2) negative PCR less than 73hrs; 3) certificate you had covid (in some cases a vaccine dose is required on top). Considering people have had Covid multiple times, a generic exemption for them might be too broad.

swader999 5y ago
Thanks for the details. The idea that you have to have your pass scanned to enter all these venues is still insane.
- mindslight 5y ago
  The idea that you should expect to be searched to enter concerts and sporting events is more insane. And yet that's just been the new normal for the past 15 years. The biggest issue is whether businesses can use your personal information for purposes other than checking vaccination status. Some of the European systems I've read about seem to discourage that, and the GDPR would also seem to prohibit it. But there's no willpower for such laws in the US, so we'd inevitably end up with the synergy of government and corporate power, like everything else. For instance, half the surveillance systems I listed in my other comment rely on abusing government-mandated identifiers.
  - raxxorrax 5y ago
    Yeah, but that new normal isn't really desirable in itself...
    - mindslight 5y ago
      I never said that it was, which was apparent from my characterization of "insane". I was merely pointing out that framing vaccination requirements as some sort of watershed totalitarianism is ridiculous. We get far less specific benefit from other intrusions. For example, spending the political energy putting surveillance valley out of business would go much further for freedom's sake.