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Bitcoin has been around for a decade now and no one has imagined much less implemented use cases beyond anonymous payments for illegal cross-border transfers or

Bitcoin has been around for a decade now and no one has imagined much less implemented use cases beyond anonymous payments for illegal cross-border transfers or illicit goods and trading other crypto coins

neb_b 5y ago
What about cross-border payments to family members living in a different country?
- Ma8ee 5y ago
  It’s is usually trivial to do international money transfers between banks today. And if that isn’t possible, there are services like Western Union.
  - rfd4sgmk8u 5y ago
    Settlement within an hour? For cents (vs $10 for wires)? Without permission of 3rd parties? To regions that are not connected to the international banking system? No. Bitcoin is better for international money transfers than WU or your local bank. I can't believe this is even a talking point in 2021.
    - toomuchtodo 5y ago
      It’s more expensive to use Bitcoin than TransferWise to send international payments or money transfers. TransferWise often settles very fast if the destination country has good fintech plumbing (Australia, Canada, SEPA, etc).
      - rfd4sgmk8u 5y ago
        I knew someone would say this! They are not factually correct, and I have done several wise.com transactions to people in other countries last year. The transfer fee was in the order of whole dollars per transaction. It is also a percent of the send, which, you may not be aware is not how Bitcoin works, rather, Bitcoin is based on the transaction size in (v)bytes. A bitcoin transaction currently cost 1sat/byte, or $0.04USD for a standard transaction. You don't get what Bitcoin is about. Wise does not need to exist in a bitcoin standard world!
      - neb_b 5y ago
        Those people are lucky to live in country with good fintech plumbing. Many poorer countries do not have that, and the citizens don't even have bank accounts.
      - kemonocode 5y ago
        (Transfer)Wise arbitrarily stopped working for Venezuela over sanctions that don't even apply to the entirety of the country, right before I was going to accept a pretty well paid gig that would have covered my living expenses for months. To say I was fuming would be an understatement. Life or death in an impoverished country. Found a different gig, less well paid but they accepted paying me in crypto. It was a grand total of 0.10 USD in BTC to receive that money and it took 5 minutes before first confirmation. Yes, transaction fees can be expensive sometimes, but in practically every case I've experienced they're nothing compared to the highway robbery most of the mainstream payment infrastructure imposes upon everybody.
    - snotrockets 5y ago
      If I send bitcoins to friends and family abroad, they are worthless until they are converted again to a real currency. I remember when someone buying Pizza with bitcoins made the news. Now the only thing you can buy with bitcoins is decryption keys from ransomware-installing hackers.
coralreef 5y ago
The use case is: - an asset that cannot easily be seized (safe, mobile, relatively easy to recover with seed words) - an asset that cannot easily be debased (good at storing value) - a network that is permissionless to participate in (no requirement for citizenship or identification, just software) - a network that is censorship resistant (interact with willing parties, pseudo-anonymously). What you mean to say is that YOU have no use for it. That's fine, you most likely have elite banking access, access to stable and liquid stock and bond markets, forex markets, etc. Look up Turkey's double digit yearly inflation rate over the last couple decades. Look up the capital controls imposed by Lebanon.
- hungryhobo 5y ago
  you must be living in your own bubble if you think any of those apply to bitcoin. > an asset that cannot easily be seized (safe, mobile, relatively easy to recover with seed words) the us government was able to chase back bitcoin payments made to hackers - an asset that cannot easily be debased (good at storing value) bitcoin in it self is not an asset, just like paper money by itself is worthless. - a network that is permissionless to participate in (no requirement for citizenship or identification, just software) i'm not sure if it's as permissionless as you think. you would still need an internet connection, which in most cases require identification to setup. regular people aren't gonna implement the software themselves, so they have to get it from somewhere. the most widely distributed bitcoin wallets are not permissionless. - a network that is censorship resistant (interact with willing parties, pseudo-anonymously). if you're trading bitcoin through an exchange (i.e 99% of the users), it's not anonymous.
  - gruez 5y ago
    You must be living in your own bubble if you think that people are going to accept that statement with zero supporting arguments.
    - hungryhobo 5y ago
      fair enough, arguments added

neb_b 5y ago

What about cross-border payments to family members living in a different country?

Ma8ee 5y ago
It’s is usually trivial to do international money transfers between banks today. And if that isn’t possible, there are services like Western Union.
- rfd4sgmk8u 5y ago
  Settlement within an hour? For cents (vs $10 for wires)? Without permission of 3rd parties? To regions that are not connected to the international banking system? No. Bitcoin is better for international money transfers than WU or your local bank. I can't believe this is even a talking point in 2021.
  - toomuchtodo 5y ago
    It’s more expensive to use Bitcoin than TransferWise to send international payments or money transfers. TransferWise often settles very fast if the destination country has good fintech plumbing (Australia, Canada, SEPA, etc).
    - rfd4sgmk8u 5y ago
      I knew someone would say this! They are not factually correct, and I have done several wise.com transactions to people in other countries last year. The transfer fee was in the order of whole dollars per transaction. It is also a percent of the send, which, you may not be aware is not how Bitcoin works, rather, Bitcoin is based on the transaction size in (v)bytes. A bitcoin transaction currently cost 1sat/byte, or $0.04USD for a standard transaction. You don't get what Bitcoin is about. Wise does not need to exist in a bitcoin standard world!
    - neb_b 5y ago
      Those people are lucky to live in country with good fintech plumbing. Many poorer countries do not have that, and the citizens don't even have bank accounts.
    - kemonocode 5y ago
      (Transfer)Wise arbitrarily stopped working for Venezuela over sanctions that don't even apply to the entirety of the country, right before I was going to accept a pretty well paid gig that would have covered my living expenses for months. To say I was fuming would be an understatement. Life or death in an impoverished country. Found a different gig, less well paid but they accepted paying me in crypto. It was a grand total of 0.10 USD in BTC to receive that money and it took 5 minutes before first confirmation. Yes, transaction fees can be expensive sometimes, but in practically every case I've experienced they're nothing compared to the highway robbery most of the mainstream payment infrastructure imposes upon everybody.
  - snotrockets 5y ago
    If I send bitcoins to friends and family abroad, they are worthless until they are converted again to a real currency. I remember when someone buying Pizza with bitcoins made the news. Now the only thing you can buy with bitcoins is decryption keys from ransomware-installing hackers.

coralreef 5y ago

The use case is: - an asset that cannot easily be seized (safe, mobile, relatively easy to recover with seed words) - an asset that cannot easily be debased (good at storing value) - a network that is permissionless to participate in (no requirement for citizenship or identification, just software) - a network that is censorship resistant (interact with willing parties, pseudo-anonymously). What you mean to say is that YOU have no use for it. That's fine, you most likely have elite banking access, access to stable and liquid stock and bond markets, forex markets, etc. Look up Turkey's double digit yearly inflation rate over the last couple decades. Look up the capital controls imposed by Lebanon.

hungryhobo 5y ago
you must be living in your own bubble if you think any of those apply to bitcoin. > an asset that cannot easily be seized (safe, mobile, relatively easy to recover with seed words) the us government was able to chase back bitcoin payments made to hackers - an asset that cannot easily be debased (good at storing value) bitcoin in it self is not an asset, just like paper money by itself is worthless. - a network that is permissionless to participate in (no requirement for citizenship or identification, just software) i'm not sure if it's as permissionless as you think. you would still need an internet connection, which in most cases require identification to setup. regular people aren't gonna implement the software themselves, so they have to get it from somewhere. the most widely distributed bitcoin wallets are not permissionless. - a network that is censorship resistant (interact with willing parties, pseudo-anonymously). if you're trading bitcoin through an exchange (i.e 99% of the users), it's not anonymous.
- gruez 5y ago
  You must be living in your own bubble if you think that people are going to accept that statement with zero supporting arguments.
  - hungryhobo 5y ago
    fair enough, arguments added