4 ms·

they could have opted for XMPP, which is clearly a better and more mature alternative.

by Andrew_nenakhov 5y ago

solarkraft 5y ago
Hey, why not IRC?
unethical_ban 5y ago
What experience in the field do you have implementing or managing Matrix or XMPP solutions?
- Andrew_nenakhov 5y ago
  Does the development of an XMPP client with a few million downloads count as sufficient experience in the field?
- deuill 5y ago
  This isn't necessarily an endorsement of one protocol/ecosystem over the other, nor do I have direct experience with integrating Matrix or XMPP (though I run the latter on my home-server for family), but XMPP has seen a few large deployments, including in healthcare (in the UK)[0][1] and in Germany[2]. The consumer-facing client ecosystem for XMPP has indeed seen less rapid development than Matrix (the latter probably benefits from a more cohesive approach), but the server ecosystem for XMPP is very mature, and servers such as Ejabberd are known to scale to hundreds of thousands of connections on a single, modest host[3]. Obviously, that's only one part of the puzzle, hence why Matrix was chosen here. Still, it'd be interesting to see how the two evolve and compare down the line. [0]: https://www.erlang-solutions.com/case-studies/pando-health-case-study/ https://www.erlang-solutions.com/case-studies/pando-health-c... [1]: https://medium.com/miquido/successful-migration-to-a-custom-xmpp-solution-76fcdecb0928 https://medium.com/miquido/successful-migration-to-a-custom-... [2]: https://twitter.com/iNPUTmice/status/1203611711967813633 https://twitter.com/iNPUTmice/status/1203611711967813633 [3]: https://www.process-one.net/blog/ejabberd-nintendo-switch-npns/ https://www.process-one.net/blog/ejabberd-nintendo-switch-np...
- mike-cardwell 5y ago
  I used to run an XMPP server (Prosody). I now run a Matrix server (Synapse - the one everyone uses). Synapse feels like a bloated monster that I'm afraid to touch in case it goes bang and I can't recover. Prosody felt like a simple light weight service that I could easily recover no matter how much I broke it.
  - GekkePrutser 5y ago
    Synapse is indeed very bad but it should by replaced soonish
    - mike-cardwell 5y ago
      Hopefully with a simple migration path
zaik 5y ago
It's also the IETF Internet standard and does not collect venture capital.
- Arathorn 5y ago
  Matrix is looked after the Matrix.org Foundation which is non-profit and doesn't collect venture capital either: https://matrix.org/foundation https://matrix.org/foundation. (It's true that many contributions to Matrix come from Element, though, the VC-funded for-profit founded by the original Matrix team in order to pay for us to keep the lights on and keep working on Matrix. Just as VC-funded Jabber Inc contributed massively to XMPP, back in the day).
  - Artistry121 5y ago
    I’m working on a project management app for small businesses using Matrix. I’ve been inspired by your work and the transparency with which the team operates and the business model you have pursued and succeeded at. I’m also stunned by the technology recently being deployed in Dendrite. Is one of the best ways to support Matrix and grow the influence to hire Element’s team as consultants to build custom implementations and use cases?
upofadown 5y ago
It sounds like they are going to end up with their own standard starting from Matrix as a base that will do more than just messaging. If they had of just set up XMPP as a messaging system we would of never heard of it. It would of been an entirely routine thing to do.

they could have opted for XMPP, which is clearly a better and more mature alternative.

solarkraft 5y ago

Hey, why not IRC?

unethical_ban 5y ago

What experience in the field do you have implementing or managing Matrix or XMPP solutions?

Andrew_nenakhov 5y ago
Does the development of an XMPP client with a few million downloads count as sufficient experience in the field?
deuill 5y ago
This isn't necessarily an endorsement of one protocol/ecosystem over the other, nor do I have direct experience with integrating Matrix or XMPP (though I run the latter on my home-server for family), but XMPP has seen a few large deployments, including in healthcare (in the UK)[0][1] and in Germany[2]. The consumer-facing client ecosystem for XMPP has indeed seen less rapid development than Matrix (the latter probably benefits from a more cohesive approach), but the server ecosystem for XMPP is very mature, and servers such as Ejabberd are known to scale to hundreds of thousands of connections on a single, modest host[3]. Obviously, that's only one part of the puzzle, hence why Matrix was chosen here. Still, it'd be interesting to see how the two evolve and compare down the line. [0]: https://www.erlang-solutions.com/case-studies/pando-health-case-study/ https://www.erlang-solutions.com/case-studies/pando-health-c... [1]: https://medium.com/miquido/successful-migration-to-a-custom-xmpp-solution-76fcdecb0928 https://medium.com/miquido/successful-migration-to-a-custom-... [2]: https://twitter.com/iNPUTmice/status/1203611711967813633 https://twitter.com/iNPUTmice/status/1203611711967813633 [3]: https://www.process-one.net/blog/ejabberd-nintendo-switch-npns/ https://www.process-one.net/blog/ejabberd-nintendo-switch-np...
mike-cardwell 5y ago
I used to run an XMPP server (Prosody). I now run a Matrix server (Synapse - the one everyone uses). Synapse feels like a bloated monster that I'm afraid to touch in case it goes bang and I can't recover. Prosody felt like a simple light weight service that I could easily recover no matter how much I broke it.
- GekkePrutser 5y ago
  Synapse is indeed very bad but it should by replaced soonish
  - mike-cardwell 5y ago
    Hopefully with a simple migration path

zaik 5y ago

It's also the IETF Internet standard and does not collect venture capital.

Arathorn 5y ago
Matrix is looked after the Matrix.org Foundation which is non-profit and doesn't collect venture capital either: https://matrix.org/foundation https://matrix.org/foundation. (It's true that many contributions to Matrix come from Element, though, the VC-funded for-profit founded by the original Matrix team in order to pay for us to keep the lights on and keep working on Matrix. Just as VC-funded Jabber Inc contributed massively to XMPP, back in the day).
- Artistry121 5y ago
  I’m working on a project management app for small businesses using Matrix. I’ve been inspired by your work and the transparency with which the team operates and the business model you have pursued and succeeded at. I’m also stunned by the technology recently being deployed in Dendrite. Is one of the best ways to support Matrix and grow the influence to hire Element’s team as consultants to build custom implementations and use cases?

upofadown 5y ago

It sounds like they are going to end up with their own standard starting from Matrix as a base that will do more than just messaging. If they had of just set up XMPP as a messaging system we would of never heard of it. It would of been an entirely routine thing to do.