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I agree completely. The convenience of the Tesla system is the most important thing in my book. Charging my Model Y is the same at home as it is at a SuperCha

I agree completely. The convenience of the Tesla system is the most important thing in my book. Charging my Model Y is the same at home as it is at a SuperCharger; just plug it in. It's so easy my Mom and a teenager have done it with no training. I've used other non-Tesla chargers while on road trips (just to try them out) and the experience is much, much worse. There is usually an app do download, or you have to swipe your CC, or both. There is usually some sort of screen with instructions, but they are all different and sometimes the screen is not visible/broken. It's a real mess.

phkahler 5y ago
>> I've used other non-Tesla chargers while on road trips (just to try them out) and the experience is much, much worse. Of course it is. They have to support cars from all manufacturers (except Tesla). They all have an app, but so does Tesla. The sum of all charger networks is larger than the Tesla network and growing faster too. I do think it will be interesting to see how this plays out.
- epistasis 5y ago
  Tesla doesn't have an app for charging. The act of plugging in the car is enough to associate the car to a billable account, without requiring fidgeting with a phone to open an app to initiate charging/billing. Don't even need to authorize with NFC. This is a significant improvement over using NFC and apps.
  - p_j_w 5y ago
    Just plugging in the car won't work for Non-Teslas, though, so that advantage is straight out the window.
    - epistasis 5y ago
      At least until there's further standardization to allow it. There's no reason current non-Tesla chargers couldn't support this, other than they haven't bothered to.
      - floren 5y ago
        Apparently you can plug in a Ford Mach-e at an Electrify America charger and it "just works". You cannot yet do that with a VW ID.4 (even thought VW built the network) but since the capability is clearly there, I'd expect to see it come in later software updates for the car.
  - atty 5y ago
    How do I pay to charge someone’s car I’m borrowing for a day or two then without it going to their account? Seems too restrictive. Much better to have an NFC scanner that works with Apple/Google pay services. Taking 3 seconds on a tap to pay system is not a hardship that needs to be reduced.
    - vel0city 5y ago
      Right? With recently updated petrol pumps its been pretty simple to negotiate payment. Tap my phone to the pump, choose fuel grade, start pumping. Since its electric, it would be tap phone, plug it in. Having it all tied to some account related with the car its now a much bigger hassle to change the payment method.
    - ericd 5y ago
      That is kind of a corner case unless you’re renting out your car, and not one worth making the main use case worse for, imo. Your friend can always look up the bill and you can Venmo them or hand them cash. Have you used superchargers? I get the sense that a lot of commenters here haven’t. The current UX is nearly spot on perfect - plug in, walk off, app notifies you when it’s almost done charging. Only issue I’ve seen is needing to go back to your car to avoid idle fees, but it’s understandable.
      - atty 5y ago
        My argument isn’t that it’s not a corner case, it most certainly is. I wouldn’t need it more than a few times a year max. My point is that the “extra hassle” of a tap to pay system is so amazingly minuscule it’s more than worth it to include the extra flexibility. Tap to pay credit cards and phone NFC payment options are so easy to use now that losing any flexibility at all to not have to use them is not a good trade off, at least in my opinion.
        ericd 5y ago
        Eh there’s usually still some interface to deal with in those systems, here you don’t have to do anything, it probably cuts off more than half of the interaction time. When it’s been pouring rain, I’ve been especially thankful I didn’t have to fumble for a card in my wallet.
  - vel0city 5y ago
    Its an improvement in some ways, a regression in others. Its now much harder to choose a different payment option. On a traditional gas pump, I just use a different card.
- darknavi 5y ago
  > The sum of all charger networks is larger than the Tesla network and growing faster too. Do you have any stats on this? I'm not doubting you, but I often browse this which can show (crowd-sourced) changes to the Supercharger network and it is growing pretty fast: https://supercharge.info/changes https://supercharge.info/changes
  - tw04 5y ago
    https://evadoption.com/ev-charging-stations-statistics/us-charging-network-rankings/ https://evadoption.com/ev-charging-stations-statistics/us-ch...
    - darknavi 5y ago
      I _think_ that table is measured in groups of chargers. If so, comparing the brands is a bit moot since most non-Tesla normally has at least 4 (and normally much more) charging bays where as many other DC fast charging places normally have less than 4 (often 2).
      - tw04 5y ago
        No? I guess I'm not sure what you're looking at, it's all explicitly called out. First column is level 2 locations, second column is level 2 connections (aka: charging bays). Column 3 is DC locations, column 4 is DC connections per location. Column 5 they conveniently do the math of average connections per location.
rpmisms 5y ago
I think people underestimate that simplicity. Sure, the Taycan can charge faster. In real life, the time you'll spend finding a working charger makes it far slower. Tesla makes it just work, and they do so stunningly well. They're compared to Apple for a reason.

phkahler 5y ago

>> I've used other non-Tesla chargers while on road trips (just to try them out) and the experience is much, much worse. Of course it is. They have to support cars from all manufacturers (except Tesla). They all have an app, but so does Tesla. The sum of all charger networks is larger than the Tesla network and growing faster too. I do think it will be interesting to see how this plays out.

epistasis 5y ago
Tesla doesn't have an app for charging. The act of plugging in the car is enough to associate the car to a billable account, without requiring fidgeting with a phone to open an app to initiate charging/billing. Don't even need to authorize with NFC. This is a significant improvement over using NFC and apps.
- p_j_w 5y ago
  Just plugging in the car won't work for Non-Teslas, though, so that advantage is straight out the window.
  - epistasis 5y ago
    At least until there's further standardization to allow it. There's no reason current non-Tesla chargers couldn't support this, other than they haven't bothered to.
    - floren 5y ago
      Apparently you can plug in a Ford Mach-e at an Electrify America charger and it "just works". You cannot yet do that with a VW ID.4 (even thought VW built the network) but since the capability is clearly there, I'd expect to see it come in later software updates for the car.
- atty 5y ago
  How do I pay to charge someone’s car I’m borrowing for a day or two then without it going to their account? Seems too restrictive. Much better to have an NFC scanner that works with Apple/Google pay services. Taking 3 seconds on a tap to pay system is not a hardship that needs to be reduced.
  - vel0city 5y ago
    Right? With recently updated petrol pumps its been pretty simple to negotiate payment. Tap my phone to the pump, choose fuel grade, start pumping. Since its electric, it would be tap phone, plug it in. Having it all tied to some account related with the car its now a much bigger hassle to change the payment method.
  - ericd 5y ago
    That is kind of a corner case unless you’re renting out your car, and not one worth making the main use case worse for, imo. Your friend can always look up the bill and you can Venmo them or hand them cash. Have you used superchargers? I get the sense that a lot of commenters here haven’t. The current UX is nearly spot on perfect - plug in, walk off, app notifies you when it’s almost done charging. Only issue I’ve seen is needing to go back to your car to avoid idle fees, but it’s understandable.
    - atty 5y ago
      My argument isn’t that it’s not a corner case, it most certainly is. I wouldn’t need it more than a few times a year max. My point is that the “extra hassle” of a tap to pay system is so amazingly minuscule it’s more than worth it to include the extra flexibility. Tap to pay credit cards and phone NFC payment options are so easy to use now that losing any flexibility at all to not have to use them is not a good trade off, at least in my opinion.
      - ericd 5y ago
        Eh there’s usually still some interface to deal with in those systems, here you don’t have to do anything, it probably cuts off more than half of the interaction time. When it’s been pouring rain, I’ve been especially thankful I didn’t have to fumble for a card in my wallet.
- vel0city 5y ago
  Its an improvement in some ways, a regression in others. Its now much harder to choose a different payment option. On a traditional gas pump, I just use a different card.
darknavi 5y ago
> The sum of all charger networks is larger than the Tesla network and growing faster too. Do you have any stats on this? I'm not doubting you, but I often browse this which can show (crowd-sourced) changes to the Supercharger network and it is growing pretty fast: https://supercharge.info/changes https://supercharge.info/changes
- tw04 5y ago
  https://evadoption.com/ev-charging-stations-statistics/us-charging-network-rankings/ https://evadoption.com/ev-charging-stations-statistics/us-ch...
  - darknavi 5y ago
    I _think_ that table is measured in groups of chargers. If so, comparing the brands is a bit moot since most non-Tesla normally has at least 4 (and normally much more) charging bays where as many other DC fast charging places normally have less than 4 (often 2).
    - tw04 5y ago
      No? I guess I'm not sure what you're looking at, it's all explicitly called out. First column is level 2 locations, second column is level 2 connections (aka: charging bays). Column 3 is DC locations, column 4 is DC connections per location. Column 5 they conveniently do the math of average connections per location.

rpmisms 5y ago

I think people underestimate that simplicity. Sure, the Taycan can charge faster. In real life, the time you'll spend finding a working charger makes it far slower. Tesla makes it just work, and they do so stunningly well. They're compared to Apple for a reason.